AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > General > General Chat

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2008-10-18, 12:12   Link #1
xxmimixx
♥Sebastian's new wife♥
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: USA
Age: 21
Send a message via MSN to xxmimixx Send a message via Yahoo to xxmimixx
Witchcraft

What do you think was the story to it? Whats your opinion about it? Blah blah blah... Discuss about everything based on witchcraft and how does it effect society today.

Well, in my US history class, we are learning about the Salem witch trials. I got really interested on watching this video on it, especially when they talked about how did the puritans identified the witches. Me and my friend were looking at each others birthmarks just the fun if it IF we were witches . I know that they don't proclaim to "exist" anymore, but we were doing it for fun.

So discuss all the way ^^
__________________
xxmimixx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-10-18, 12:50   Link #2
Kyuusai
9wiki
*Scanlator
 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: State of Denial
Send a message via AIM to Kyuusai Send a message via MSN to Kyuusai Send a message via Yahoo to Kyuusai
This is a very, very, VERY broad subject. For about as the world has contained people, people have tried to manipulate it, and found various ways to dream up/justify/contrive historical relation for the methods they choose to do it, and any such activity involving superstition/"the unseen world" would meet the definition.

The Salem witch trials didn't even actually involve witchcraft. It's primarily a tale of the dangers of theocracy and the ease by which people can fall into mass hysteria.

As for "actual" witchcraft? As little presence as there is in the US, I've been amazed at the strong practice there is in many other countries. Even in the more moonbat areas of the US, witchcraft tends to be either a very small, underground practice or a public show for supporting tourist traps, but there are many other, seemingly equally civilized places in which it is pervasive and widely believed in. As a Christian missionary I've learned that the local witchcraft practitioners are not happy to see us come (I haven't been in any direct personal conflicts, but I understand there's been quite some outrage). I think one half of that has something to do with their customer base evaporating.
__________________

I await patiently
the gift promised to me.
Kyuusai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-10-18, 21:01   Link #3
Mystique
Honyaku no Hime
*Fansubber
 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: In the eastern capital of the islands of the rising suns...
Mystique's two pence

Huge topic, there are many ways to approach this.
Moreover I'd be interested to see if this thread has a chance of flourishing on personal views within a male dominated geeky base with interests of cars, politics, anime, Japanese culture, schooling, economy and science.
(But Wicca, paganism and druidism?)

I've stated in the past that the US currently feels like England 400 years+ ago, in terms of attitudes to Christianity and the influence it has over their country. You could dab into when Christian missionaries came to England after the Dark ages and the extreme steps they took to convert people.
You could research more into the numerous "witch" hunts and burning of many many innocent women within Old England (all kinds of theories are around for the real reason behind that massacre)
You can look into the very essence of Wicca and paganism, see the differences, how people use it to shape their lives and so on. Two of the renowned calendar events within that would be the Summer and Autumn equinox.
And so on, lol. Wiki is your friend.

You should specify what subject area you'd like to discuss with us within your post, or make specified bullet points for us to tick off.
You can always come back and ask another question relating to it, it's your thread.

But to answer on a non academic level, let's see...
Well Kyuusai, in terms of they not being happy to see Christians, put it this way. Christians for over hundreds and hundreds of years have not be kind at all to them. I remember, I knew this woman online whose grandma was subject to extreme prejudice for being a witch in New England, US, so much so that the woman kinda grew up afraid. She finds out I'm Christian and starts freaking out thinking that I'm gonna condemn her to hell or something or just become really angry (in my head, it'd be for no real reason though...)
I didn't understand the fear, but then she explained a little about the things her grandma went through and I kinda felt sad and said 'it's simply not my place to judge. Your faith is your faith as long as you're a nice human being, Iíve no issues.'

Me personally have always had an affinity for Wicca from a really young age, so much so that I kept a book based on it (like a beginners guide) when i was 14 and kept it for a couple of years, reading and learning about the fundamental principles, the basic invoking of the elements via pentagrams and wiccans (or "witches") relationships with the goddess.

It was then I realised that it was a religion in itself which was practised way before Christianity took hold of Europe, thus believing that they are devil worshippers is a bunch of utter crap; they don't even acknowledge Christian beliefs, let alone practice them.
Saying that, it did cause a conflict within myself for a few years, since I did believe in God, I couldn't discard my faith and so I've only kept my interests on a personal level whenever I research about it to talk to witches themselves about it, but never attempt to practice it.
If i hadn't been raised a Christian and I still held the affinity for Wicca that I hold now, I'd probably have been a witch.

The basic 101 of Wicca (that I remember, but of course, always look up official texts for more concrete info) is as follows:
- Practitioners follow the seasonal cycles and recognise the feminine divinity.
- There's no such thing as a black or white witch anymore than there's a 'good or bad' Christian. Those who go against their faith tend to do bad things and so on.
- Spells are neutral; it simply all depends on the morals or heart of the individual and for what reasons they'd use them.
- Saying that, there is the belief of inflicting harm on others will return three-fold on you, karma basically.
- The pentagram is not a symbol of evil. On a real basic level, for witches, the points represent the elements, Satanists tend to turn it up-side-down within their practices.
-Both paganism and wicca practiced in their true form are a way of life, they're not a quick pit stop, to try out spells, potions and form coves with your mates. (or anything else the media and movies have made seem fun or cool)
- To say "I don't believe in God, nor am really religious, but hey I kinda wanna try wicca" - is somewhat of a contradiction. Their faith is with the goddess, mother of nature, the practice is incorporated within your daily life.

(The more I write, the more I remember, lol) ><
Think I'm borderline essay length again so I'll stop.
__________________

Worrying is like a rocking chair. It gives you something to do, but it doesn't get you anywhere. - Van Wilder
"If you ain't laughin', you ain't livin'." - Carlos Mencia
Mystique is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-10-18, 21:01   Link #4
yezhanquan
Observer/Bookman wannabe
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 29
Well, voodoo is still alive and well in some parts of the world.
__________________
Those from the lower levels cannot hope to surpass those from the upper.

RIP, Oba-chan (1935-2008)
yezhanquan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-10-18, 21:39   Link #5
Mystique
Honyaku no Hime
*Fansubber
 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: In the eastern capital of the islands of the rising suns...
Voodoo is very much alive, that stuff freaks me out. I try to accept it as a way people live their lives, but the exposure of humans using it to harm others has gotten under my skin, I kinda try to steer clear of it, my mother doesn't even want me visiting Haiti
__________________

Worrying is like a rocking chair. It gives you something to do, but it doesn't get you anywhere. - Van Wilder
"If you ain't laughin', you ain't livin'." - Carlos Mencia
Mystique is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-10-18, 21:47   Link #6
yezhanquan
Observer/Bookman wannabe
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystique View Post
Voodoo is very much alive, that stuff freaks me out. I try to accept it as a way people live their lives, but the exposure of humans using it to harm others has gotten under my skin, I kinda try to steer clear of it, my mother doesn't even want me visiting Haiti
Aye. Scientific knowledge is rather useless if you find yourself confronting trouble on this issue.
__________________
Those from the lower levels cannot hope to surpass those from the upper.

RIP, Oba-chan (1935-2008)
yezhanquan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-10-19, 15:49   Link #7
xxmimixx
♥Sebastian's new wife♥
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: USA
Age: 21
Send a message via MSN to xxmimixx Send a message via Yahoo to xxmimixx
Quote:
Originally Posted by yezhanquan View Post
Well, voodoo is still alive and well in some parts of the world.
My mom has a vodoo doll, but she only uses it as a decoration.

Well, here are some more questions based on Witchcraft. Besides Christianity, what other religions believe that Witchcraft is evil to there beliefs, or thought that Witchcraft was a good thing? To me, this topic is actually kinda interesting because different religions (especially christianity) thought that this kind of act is a sin, and similiar to Devil workshiping.

Right now, I'm taking notes base on this topic, and how does it affect the church, through this website. Hopefully, you guys can help me on what are they basically talking about.

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/proj...chhistory.html
__________________
xxmimixx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-10, 17:22   Link #8
Nightmar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Well witchcraft is real actually you see i happen to know people who are wicca,warlock,pagan,magus and vodooist and even hodooist and ive witnessed thier magick.
Nightmar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-10, 17:28   Link #9
Habhome
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: The alleged home of the polar bears, Sweden...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightmar View Post
Well witchcraft is real actually you see i happen to know people who are wicca,warlock,pagan,magus and vodooist and even hodooist and ive witnessed thier magick.
And I've acted as a magician's assistant, many unbelievable things are easily achieved through trickery.
Habhome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-10, 19:48   Link #10
Crusader
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: North Texas
Send a message via MSN to Crusader
Im a christian and im taught that Witch craft is evil, but at the same time i believe that it can be used for good. However i have never been around any one who is a practictioner of sorts. Just like i really don't believe in magic but rather Sorcery instead. I can't remember the scriptures, but there a few in the bible that covered Witchcraft. I believe if people found the means they could imitate the acts foudn there in. I myself would like to get a little involved and see how it woudl work for me, but i'd rather have company for that.
__________________
The times may change, but human nature never will.
Crusader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-10, 20:53   Link #11
chikorita157
ひきこもりアイドル
*IT Support
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: New Jersey, United States
Age: 25
Send a message via Skype™ to chikorita157
Funny thing is that my Western Civ teacher have talked about witchcraft with the book called Servants of Satan by Klaits. The witch hunts are due to because of knowledge re-obtained in the renaissance and also the reformation with the protestant belief that only the being can save themselves from faith. The witchcraft hunts started because there was a a power struggle in the church and government. The main reason women were executed not only because female population outnumbered the male population, but the trial system used roman law and also confession through torture, which they confessed so it stopped the pain and also they tell a list of friends, which in turn cause more chaos... That and the Religious Wars. Witch hunts is just a scapegoat thing and witchcraft stuff is pretty much made up. Thankfully, this witchcraft craze died in the Scientific Revolution and England and Spain didn't participate in this madness.. (and I need to write about it on the final exam... wow...)

My opinion, witchcraft does not exist and never will. It's an excuse to put the blame on someone else. These modern witch hunts can compare to the communist witchhunt in the US (mostly known as McCarthyism) which happened almost 60 years ago.
__________________
chikorita157 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-11, 07:08   Link #12
-KarumA-
(。☉౪ ⊙。)
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: In Maya world, where all is 3D and everything crashes
Age: 26
Witchcraft is probably the most misunderstood subject of all. I don't mind it, though I hate it that people call you witch as soon as you wear a gothic dress or simply plain black. My friend would wear gothic dresses and she would say she was a wiccan but she would never do anything that comes in that culture, and that is what I find annoying. I get agitated when people see witchcraft as an excuse to be different from other people, mostly other students and friends, and never really stick with the culture. If you want to read about it fine but don't pretend to be one, I used to read books about it but never have I even considered calling myself a witch (even if I lay out tator cards, which people then connect to witchcraft) because I don't do the rituals etc.
Most people I've known either claimed to be into witchcraft but stopped as soon as highschool was over. I did however had one friend whose family consisted of witches, her mother was very active in the rituals and did it with her daughter to pass on the tradition

However there were also many people who thought witches sacrificed lambs etc. and they even asked me if I did it.... really so stupid.. same with satanism, when I was reading about that they thought the same, they thought I was worshiping the devil or something...

I think culture is important and should not be lost, but most importantly not have other people force their beliefs on others so that the smaller ones disappear. I think it is a good thing to uphold, let it be voodoo or wicca, but I don't like the people going around "I'm a wiccan! Respect me!" when they have no idea what they are rambling about
-KarumA- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-11, 08:34   Link #13
cheyannew
PolyPerson!
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Northern VA
Ahhh, yes, the "witch" fad...
I HATED movies like "The Craft" (I used to call it "The Crap) when I was in school; it made life miserable for those of us actually practicing Wicca. I ran a small coven in high school, and it was right as the goth culture/wannabes were coming into play. Needless to say, we got a lot of them bothering us, wanting to "cast spells" with us and other such nonsense.
Stuff like that, and the plethora of "Wiccans" who honestly never did a lick of actual research other than picking up Buckland or Cabot's trash, are one of the reasons I stopped practicing Wicca to begin with. I'm sure Satanism will be the next fad to shock people, but that's fine. So long as they're not a total prat saying they're with the CoS I don't care what they do. No red card? Not worth my concern.


Quote:
Originally Posted by -KarumA- View Post
Witchcraft is probably the most misunderstood subject of all. I don't mind it, though I hate it that people call you witch as soon as you wear a gothic dress or simply plain black. My friend would wear gothic dresses and she would say she was a wiccan but she would never do anything that comes in that culture, and that is what I find annoying. I get agitated when people see witchcraft as an excuse to be different from other people, mostly other students and friends, and never really stick with the culture. If you want to read about it fine but don't pretend to be one, I used to read books about it but never have I even considered calling myself a witch (even if I lay out tator cards, which people then connect to witchcraft) because I don't do the rituals etc.
Most people I've known either claimed to be into witchcraft but stopped as soon as highschool was over. I did however had one friend whose family consisted of witches, her mother was very active in the rituals and did it with her daughter to pass on the tradition

However there were also many people who thought witches sacrificed lambs etc. and they even asked me if I did it.... really so stupid.. same with satanism, when I was reading about that they thought the same, they thought I was worshiping the devil or something...

I think culture is important and should not be lost, but most importantly not have other people force their beliefs on others so that the smaller ones disappear. I think it is a good thing to uphold, let it be voodoo or wicca, but I don't like the people going around "I'm a wiccan! Respect me!" when they have no idea what they are rambling about
__________________
"...we are wolves in a flock of sheep. We are the hunters. We are the Alphas and we are on this Earth to conquer."

RIFT | Division | Side 7 Art Archive
cheyannew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-11, 12:34   Link #14
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
"Witchcraft" is an amazingly misused word to begin with -- some Christian sects would have it that ALL non-Christian beliefs are related to "witchcraft". Not just the decorative "sympathetic magic" ones like voodoo or tribal shamanism, but also Buddhism, Judaism --- (and in one personal case, a group of Southern Baptists who labeled Christian Methodism as "witchcraft" and "driven by Satan", no they weren't being funny).

But historically and practically - the term was used to persecute people who didn't fit in that well or had assets that were coveted by others. As Kyuusai notes - this was coupled with intolerant theocracy and mass hysteria.

The tests for being a witch were essentially a "no win" for the victim --- if they died they weren't a witch and the people just assumed they'd sent the victim on to heaven. If they didn't die --- then they burned/stoned/pressed them and killed them anyway (to go to hell). Can't leave the subject without Monty Python's treatment of this human psychology -- "She's a Witch!!"

Judeo-christian beliefs aren't the only ones who flirt with the idea of witchcraft -- but there its historically been used to terminate discussion, provide scapegoats, or to simply make all other beliefs unsuitable.

"The Monsters are due on Maple Street" is a very good read/watch to get an idea of how such lunacy can still manifest itself in modern cultures.
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-11, 12:56   Link #15
The Master
Member
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: County Durham
It depends what you mean when you say witchcraft. To me its the same as asking for an explanation of christianity when it had so many divergent groups. Each culture had an indigenous belief system which got labelled as paganism or witchcraft by the local christian priests. It would be hard to define the nature of witchcraft because of this.
__________________
The Internet is but one step on my path to world domination
The Master is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-11, 13:48   Link #16
Irkalla
I asked for this
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Winterfell
Age: 25
The mindset behind witchcraft can probably be traced back to the caveman where they worshiped the hunter god (with horns) and the fertility goddess (Venus of Willendorf for an example) They also found 30.000 years old cave paintings which can back up a nature based craft or some kinda hunting rituals. So as you can see, it far precedes Christianity or any kinda popular religion of nowadays, who hunted down these people, made their gods their adversary, and took all their mythology(and money) as their own.(with a little twisting) Of course, there is a bunch of religious ideologies between these, but they ALL have the same pagan roots.

So what they did in these Salem trials, or any other witch hunt all over the world, was to make people believe that this horned god was the "devil" and an adversary to their supreme sexist God, and thus needed to be exterminated. The funny thing is that, most witches were woman, and not just any woman. Women who owned land, widows, independent woman or any kinda suspicious women the neighbors didn't like. Does this ring a bell? No wonder you have branches of feminist witches like Dianic wicca. Who can even blame them? It's always about money and control with major organized religion.
__________________
Irkalla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-11, 16:00   Link #17
Zu Ra
✖ ǝʇ ɯıqnɾl ☆
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Mortuary : D
I don't differentiate much between witches and wizards . Wizards / Alchemist Quacks and Witches fall in the same category . But you have to note the previous 3 are male oriented profession while the later was practiced by women . That difference led to orchestration and witchcraft being deemed evil . Also Alchemy and Wizardry had royal patronage while witchcraft was accessible to common folk . So financially speaking witchcraft created a hole in the pockets of inferential wizards alchemist and quacks . So it was appropriate for witches to be deemed evil .

From the dawn of civilization occult was practiced by male and females . And the earlier known societies have been matriarchal with priestess being women . Only later on Patriarchal societies became the order of the day . One of the aftereffects of that was witches been deemed evil . And with Christianity becoming the major religion any form of occult was squashed and led to witch hunts / witch burning . One could argue witchcraft was more grotesque with sacrifices and blood . But you have to note there was a lot of medical research that took place during Renaissance which was far more bloodier and inhumane . With the goal of finding human soul . Sanctioned Financed by the Vatican itself ... I can even go as far as to say the body and living specimen supplied for this research was from the church . With imprisoned and executed convicts of the Holy Order . Going a little stray modern medicine has most of its terminology in Latin wondered why /

And no I dont believe in witches or wizards or Potter (@_@) . But lot of misogyny has been practiced over the ages in name of abolishing witchcraft .
__________________
Zu Ra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-11, 16:10   Link #18
SaintessHeart
Ehh? EEEEHHHHHH?
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 25
Well my maternal side is from a line of bomohs, or Malay witch doctors. Cross my path and I shall summon kemonomimis to make you die of nasal haemorrage and severe dehydration, then they will claw your dead body to pieces!

The Salem witch trial is basically a puppet trial, based on weak and irrational proof rather than actual evidence. The judiciary is a kangaroo court run by religious fanatics aligned with the "church" rather than neutral judges, so you could say that this is in fact, entirely a farce in which one religious cell is trying to absorb another through force.

If you are not talking about the magical aspect of witchcraft, then it would be related to occultism, or black magic. Most of it is placebo and trickery, but some of them are said to be true. I give that a benefit of doubt though I believe in science rather than magic, or maybe there may be a scientific explanation to black magic after all.

On a small note, I would like a witch hunter try to take down one of the Strike witches.
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
SaintessHeart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-12, 11:02   Link #19
Leo Keichi
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Gaijinland
For me, witchcraft means using some material means in order to connect with the spiritual realm. So, by this definition, a christian can be a witch as well, when they put an oil on their heads, or take the supper, for example.

Or you could say that a witch can be someone who isn't christian, what would include a great variety of different believes and practices. That is very different from saying that they are all satanists, though. Saying something like this would be a huge oversimplification.
Leo Keichi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-12, 11:38   Link #20
The Master
Member
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: County Durham
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo Keichi View Post
For me, witchcraft means using some material means in order to connect with the spiritual realm. So, by this definition, a christian can be a witch as well, when they put an oil on their heads, or take the supper, for example.
I think that is a very good point. However it would be equally valid to say that it is the nature of the spiritual realm they wish to contact which defines a persons belief system.
__________________
The Internet is but one step on my path to world domination
The Master is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
magic, myth, religion, witchcraft

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 16:17.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.