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Old 2009-12-11, 13:55   Link #441
Kuroshinobu
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As always we can debate all we ever want, but whether he will be brought back or be resting in peace is completely up to the director's whim.

So until official confirmation of Lelouch's survival, he's assumed dead, sadly.
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Old 2009-12-11, 13:55   Link #442
eaglei3
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
I keep telling people that. That yes, we know they can bring him back. But until then, he is dead and there is no point in hoping or bitching about it.
I wonder if this manga will be a litmus test on whether or not Lelouch is a key component to Geass or not...
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Old 2009-12-11, 13:58   Link #443
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Originally Posted by eaglei3 View Post
I wonder if this manga will be a litmus test on whether or not Lelouch is a key component to Geass or not...
Maybe, hopefully. That would be great if Code Geass got even more popular.
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Old 2009-12-11, 13:58   Link #444
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Well Blade I agree with your points, but under the right circumstances there could be a pretty damn good "why" in the context of the story IF it's done right.

For example, if Lelouch was revived against his will and was then pissed about it I could understand that. Maybe the people he put in charge also royally screwed up and have their back to the wall in some new conflict. Maybe then Lelouch plans on killing himself and just going back to being dead, but Suzaku or Kallen or somebody else tells him to suck it up and help out. Then perhaps through the course of the story he redeams himself, or sacrafices himself again, but this time in a more noble way that makes everyone honor his memory instead of thinking of him as Hitler lol.

So I guess what i'm trying to say is that if Sunrise tried to say that Lelouch is just fine and in hiding somewhere, I would have to say that they pulled that out of their butts. But I wouldn't mind if he was brought back tastefully AND with a very good reason in the context of the story.
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Old 2009-12-11, 14:02   Link #445
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Well Blade I agree with your points, but under the right circumstances there could be a pretty damn good "why" in the context of the story IF it's done right.

For example, if Lelouch was revived against his will and was then pissed about it I could understand that. Maybe the people he put in charge also royally screwed up and have their back to the wall in some new conflict. Maybe then Lelouch plans on killing himself and just going back to being dead, but Suzaku or Kallen or somebody else tells him to suck it up and help out. Then perhaps through the course of the story he redeams himself, or sacrafices himself again, but this time in a more noble way that makes everyone honor his memory instead of thinking of him as Hitler lol.

So I guess what i'm trying to say is that if Sunrise tried to say that Lelouch is just fine and in hiding somewhere, I would have to say that they pulled that out of their butts. But I wouldn't mind if he was brought back tastefully AND with a very good reason in the context of the story.
Sunrise "Hey Lelouch, we made everything fail for you during Code Geass that would bring you happiness... guess what, we made your final death plan fail also. Here is a code, enjoy more misery and failed plans please!!!"
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Old 2009-12-11, 14:15   Link #446
bladeofdarkness
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i prefer to think of it as karma saying
"hey Lelouch"
"remember how you chose to do your plan instead of ending the war like a normal person ?"
"remember all the people you murdered in order to do that plan ?"
"did you really think you can just rest in peace after all that ?"

"you wanted to created a world where everyone on the planet hates your guts"
"well, congratulations"
"now you get to live in it"

now THAT is something i can accept
it actually kinda fitting for lelouch's masterplan to turn into a massive case of "nice job breaking it, hero"
its perfectly in character for him
he did zero-requiem because his ego didn't allow him to do anything else, so having it come back to bite him in the ass is practiclly Newtonian
"for every action there is a reaction"
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Old 2009-12-11, 14:58   Link #447
Laurcus
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I would like that too, as long as Lelouch then realizes what an idiot he's been and helps try to fix it. You know some actual character development lol.
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Old 2009-12-11, 16:20   Link #448
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Humm... I don't want to see Lelouch coming back...

But if they will bring him, at least it must be in a epic way: Saving everyone in the biggest pinch of the series with no explanations whatsoever of why is he alive. Like when Zechs returns in Gundam Wing. It was like: "Zechs? You're alive?" "What do you think? Now i want to kick some ass!"
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Old 2009-12-11, 16:24   Link #449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
i prefer to think of it as karma saying
"hey Lelouch"
"remember how you chose to do your plan instead of ending the war like a normal person ?"
"remember all the people you murdered in order to do that plan ?"
"did you really think you can just rest in peace after all that ?"

"you wanted to created a world where everyone on the planet hates your guts"
"well, congratulations"
"now you get to live in it"

now THAT is something i can accept
it actually kinda fitting for lelouch's masterplan to turn into a massive case of "nice job breaking it, hero"
its perfectly in character for him
he did zero-requiem because his ego didn't allow him to do anything else, so having it come back to bite him in the ass is practiclly Newtonian
"for every action there is a reaction"
Now THAT. I could accept. I would actually enjoy seeing that a lot.
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Old 2009-12-11, 18:25   Link #450
Nogitsune
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Yes, let's take the Zero Requiem bashing from the forums to the actual series - that's what we need!

It's so much fun to spit into the faces of those who actually liked something about the ending. Oh, and into Lelouch's, because it's totally his fault that the staff didn't care enough about the possible advantages of peace treaties to reconsider.
Hell, they glorified the ending. As long as they meant it, which is very likely indeed, Leouch actually chose a route that is justifiable in the world he lived in, unrealistic as that may be.

Live with it. Otherwise, Clovis will steal your cake.
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Old 2009-12-11, 18:37   Link #451
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Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who is fine with the Zero Requiem and glad that Lelouch did it. After all, it was probably about the only thing of his that actually went right, and how he wanted it.
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Old 2009-12-11, 18:41   Link #452
Nogitsune
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who is fine with the Zero Requiem and glad that Lelouch did it. After all, it was probably about the only thing of his that actually went right, and how he wanted it.
Ah, that makes two of us already!
If we keep this up, we could build an armee. I'm sure Clovis would join! ...If we stay clear of firearms of any kind, that is.
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Old 2009-12-11, 21:33   Link #453
Kuroshinobu
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Ah, that makes two of us already!
If we keep this up, we could build an armee. I'm sure Clovis would join! ...If we stay clear of firearms of any kind, that is.
Make that three.
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Old 2009-12-11, 21:45   Link #454
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Ah, that makes two of us already!
If we keep this up, we could build an armee. I'm sure Clovis would join! ...If we stay clear of firearms of any kind, that is.
I guess that make me number 4 then.
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Old 2009-12-11, 21:53   Link #455
eaglei3
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I guess that make me number 4 then.
Time to pull the train up and have everyone who didn't mind Zero Requiem jump on aboard!!!


Atleast it was an entertaining end to the original series instead of the 'peace' route.


But as was established earlier, my favorite route would probably be Lelouch coming back not according to his plans again.
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Old 2009-12-11, 21:55   Link #456
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Oh, I don't mind ZR at all! I love ZR. I think it was messed up, but I also think it was perfectly in character. Lelouch only did what he saw was best. In his eyes it was a perfect plan, and that's the part that makes his sacrifice for it so special -not whether it actually worked or not.

It's kind of like watching a blind man try to paint. You know it's wrong, but it's beautiful anyway.

Last edited by Zetsubou Bunny; 2009-12-11 at 22:07.
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Old 2009-12-11, 23:36   Link #457
KrimzonStriker
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Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
i prefer to think of it as karma saying
"hey Lelouch"
"remember how you chose to do your plan instead of ending the war like a normal person ?"
"remember all the people you murdered in order to do that plan ?"
"did you really think you can just rest in peace after all that ?"

"you wanted to created a world where everyone on the planet hates your guts"
"well, congratulations"
"now you get to live in it"

now THAT is something i can accept
it actually kinda fitting for lelouch's masterplan to turn into a massive case of "nice job breaking it, hero"
its perfectly in character for him
he did zero-requiem because his ego didn't allow him to do anything else, so having it come back to bite him in the ass is practiclly Newtonian
"for every action there is a reaction"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurcus View Post
I would like that too, as long as Lelouch then realizes what an idiot he's been and helps try to fix it. You know some actual character development lol.
Okay, this is WAAAYYYY too harsh. How exactly do you end war the normal way persay exactly?

He did the Zero-Requiem because it was effective. Was it ego? Perhaps, I lean toward an attitude of genuine care for those that knew him as being a factor as well, and his belief that one has to actually step up to what he says, basically how only those who kill have a right to be killed in turn.

I really don't see anyone else coming up with better ideas honestly, so does anyone think they have validity in criticizing him for at least trying where everyone else just sits on their behinds in front of the computer screen here

And btw, this is just getting way too off-topic already and I think you guys are taking way too much advantage of this forum to just vent out unnecsesary complaints about Lelouch here so mind cutting it out already? <_<
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"That is why we must embrace carnage. In order to not waste the blood that has already been shed, we have no choice but to shed even more."- Lelouch Vi Britannia
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Old 2009-12-11, 23:44   Link #458
Nobodyman9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
i prefer to think of it as karma saying
"hey Lelouch"
"remember how you chose to do your plan instead of ending the war like a normal person ?"
"remember all the people you murdered in order to do that plan ?"
"did you really think you can just rest in peace after all that ?"

"you wanted to created a world where everyone on the planet hates your guts"
"well, congratulations"
"now you get to live in it"

now THAT is something i can accept
it actually kinda fitting for lelouch's masterplan to turn into a massive case of "nice job breaking it, hero"
its perfectly in character for him
he did zero-requiem because his ego didn't allow him to do anything else, so having it come back to bite him in the ass is practiclly Newtonian
"for every action there is a reaction"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetsubou Bunny View Post
Now THAT. I could accept. I would actually enjoy seeing that a lot.
Thirded. Fourthed. Whatever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who is fine with the Zero Requiem and glad that Lelouch did it. After all, it was probably about the only thing of his that actually went right, and how he wanted it.
Yeah. Too bad it had to be a plan where he kills an assload of people.

Honestly though, I never really approved of Lelouch's methods that much, even from the start. So ZR really wasn't much of a surprise for me and it didn't really do that much to lower my opinion of him (since it was already quite low) But hey, it is what it is.
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Old 2009-12-11, 23:55   Link #459
KrimzonStriker
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Originally Posted by Nobodyman9 View Post
Thirded. Fourthed. Whatever.


Yeah. Too bad it had to be a plan where he kills an assload of people.

Honestly though, I never really approved of Lelouch's methods that much, even from the start. So ZR really wasn't much of a surprise for me and it didn't really do that much to lower my opinion of him (since it was already quite low) But hey, it is what it is.
Yes, because people can't die, or shouldn't die, or don't die when you try to do things concerning life and death, and... wait, I forgot, we don't live in Candy Land! Oh well, there goes the saintly-moral judgmental method right there!

Oh who are you trying to kid? You remember the last person that didn't agree with Lelouch's methods? Yeah, I wonder how far Suzaku managed to get by them with all his morality junk. Approval, smosal, what matters in the end is that they actually manage to do something about it and be the one left standing after its all said and done. Without either of those idealism just gets tooted as decorated varnish that lacks any substance from spine-less hypocrites only going so far as their whining mouths takes them, which is to say not very far at all, or people who just get stomped into the dust and forgotten in the end.
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"That is why we must embrace carnage. In order to not waste the blood that has already been shed, we have no choice but to shed even more."- Lelouch Vi Britannia
http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/7050/zeroty5copieie4.jpg

Last edited by KrimzonStriker; 2009-12-12 at 00:06.
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Old 2009-12-12, 00:08   Link #460
Nobodyman9
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Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker View Post
Yes, because people can't die, or shouldn't die, or don't die when you try to do things concerning life and death, and... wait, I forgot, we don't live in Candy Land! Oh well, there goes the saintly-moral judgmental method right there!

Oh who are you trying to kid? You remember the last person that didn't agree with Lelouch's methods? Yeah, I wonder how far Suzaku managed to get by them with all his morality junk. Approval, smosal, what matters in the end is that they actually manage to do something about it and be the one left standing after its all said and done. Without either of those idealism just gets tooted as decorated varnish that lacks any substance from spine-less hypocrites only going so far as their whining mouths takes them, which is to say not very far at all, or people who just get stomped into the dust and forgotten in the end.
Well, you don't have to take it so personally. It's not just Lelouch, I pretty much disapprove of anyone who uses methods like that (and war in general). The thing about Lelouch though is...well, he didn't have to enjoy so damn much.
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