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Old 2009-12-12, 04:25   Link #1701
Xion Valkyrie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aahhsin View Post
And I love it. Medaka is great because it only focuses on Medaka and Zen. You get glimpses of Akune and that swimming girl, but the focus is still on the main characters. Villains that take another 10 chapters to explain their background is a complete waste of time. Everytime they explain a long elaborate background story it takes another 5 weeks. It's just filler.

I like the pace of this. It's no nonsense and it just keeps moving. Yes we know Medaka is going to win, and probably destroy the other guy, but at least we won't wait 8 weeks to see it happen.
Except we know very little about Medaka, even though almost every single chapter has been about her. We know that she's pretty much perfect in every way, and she's bad with animals. It seemed at the beginning she liked Zen, but now it seems Zen's really just another member of the Student Council, and they're all about equally important to her.

Then there's Zen, and considering how little material we get that's about him, he's hardly the 'focus' of the manga.
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Old 2009-12-12, 07:26   Link #1702
Amegashita
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Originally Posted by aahhsin View Post
And I love it. Medaka is great because it only focuses on Medaka and Zen. You get glimpses of Akune and that swimming girl, but the focus is still on the main characters. Villains that take another 10 chapters to explain their background is a complete waste of time. Everytime they explain a long elaborate background story it takes another 5 weeks. It's just filler.

I like the pace of this. It's no nonsense and it just keeps moving. Yes we know Medaka is going to win, and probably destroy the other guy, but at least we won't wait 8 weeks to see it happen.
That's a very... flawed outlook on manga's. I mean don't you want to know why a villain is a villain? Like in Higurashi no Naku Koro ni when I discovered who the villain was, I was gung-ho about finding out why she did what she did. Same for Umineko, not only that but it's also more realistic that way. Every body has a back story and their experience's come to form the person they are today.

Like, for example, a murder trial. If we were to ignore what a person had to say <with a grain of salt of course> we would easily convict them, whether their innocent or not. Without trying to find out why they did what they did, we wouldn't know whether it was self defense, or simple morale collapse.

But... I guess for manga's you're allowed to think that way...
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Old 2009-12-12, 11:25   Link #1703
Rejuvenation
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Knowing about villains is fine but I'd much rather not have it done the Naruto way which takes chapters upon chapters. Then some of the things involved lead to people hating the villains anyway (Nagato anyone?)

Honestly, if its like One Piece and we get them mentioning their motives without dragging it on I'm all good. We didn't have to suffer a 5 chapter flashback to understand what happened to Gecko Maria for instance. He stated it and we saw through his actions why he did what he did and what made him who he is.

Anyway, this was a fun chapter. Nice to see that she didn't outright stomp him. He is fairing better than Unzen at any rate. The comment about Nabeshima made me chuckle as well.
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Old 2009-12-12, 11:51   Link #1704
Nvis
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I hope after this dude, it's the upside down girl. Can't wait to see her in action.
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Old 2009-12-12, 12:12   Link #1705
Nosauz
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Originally Posted by Amegashita View Post
That's a very... flawed outlook on manga's. I mean don't you want to know why a villain is a villain? Like in Higurashi no Naku Koro ni when I discovered who the villain was, I was gung-ho about finding out why she did what she did. Same for Umineko, not only that but it's also more realistic that way. Every body has a back story and their experience's come to form the person they are today.

Like, for example, a murder trial. If we were to ignore what a person had to say <with a grain of salt of course> we would easily convict them, whether their innocent or not. Without trying to find out why they did what they did, we wouldn't know whether it was self defense, or simple morale collapse.

But... I guess for manga's you're allowed to think that way...
umineko and higurashi are thrillers/mystery, they naturally are a genre that make you want to think about the psychology of the characters, Medaka is a shounen that really idolizes medaka to the point where it's not even fun reading, even if you knew the motivations of the villians, even if they were noble, medaka would always prevail, the writing just has too much of mary sue feeling where a character is invincible, unfallable which just really breaks the imersion.
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Old 2009-12-12, 15:11   Link #1706
Kunagisa
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Every time I read this topic I get depressed with the bashing. The fact this sells should at least tell you guys what audience this manga is directed to (and why the "critics" wouldn't enjoy this), then again, I'm the type of guy who went nuts seeing Gogeta the first time as a kid. And FFS, it's only chapter 31, in terms of pacing for Shonens, it's like infant stage.
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Old 2009-12-12, 18:37   Link #1707
DJ Trouble
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. . . I wanna see everyone in the student council go SSJ4. >_>

With the hammer pants, tails, furry chests, everything. xD
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Old 2009-12-12, 19:14   Link #1708
Darknemo2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stuopidget View Post
Every time I read this topic I get depressed with the bashing. The fact this sells should at least tell you guys what audience this manga is directed to (and why the "critics" wouldn't enjoy this), then again, I'm the type of guy who went nuts seeing Gogeta the first time as a kid. And FFS, it's only chapter 31, in terms of pacing for Shonens, it's like infant stage.
Yes and thats the chapter where Hatsukoi Limited ended that or was it 33? You have tto understand that not all shounens go on like One Piece or Naruto, for some cut happens around the chapter like this.
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Old 2009-12-12, 19:22   Link #1709
Westlo
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Hatsukoi got cut because it did shit in the TOC, was way too ambitious for 7-12 year olds (like they could handle 6 simultaneous love triangles lol), didn't sell as well as Ichigo 100% and it was just bad.

Medaka's selling better than Hatsukoi and atm seems nowhere near the end, not really worth comparing the two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stuopidget View Post
Every time I read this topic I get depressed with the bashing. The fact this sells should at least tell you guys what audience this manga is directed to (and why the "critics" wouldn't enjoy this), then again, I'm the type of guy who went nuts seeing Gogeta the first time as a kid. And FFS, it's only chapter 31, in terms of pacing for Shonens, it's like infant stage.
The worse part is when you see unrealistic bashing.. like "omg the villians aren't developed like the ones in Umineko even though Umineko VNs has more text than all the chapters of One Piece, Naruto & Bleach combined"
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Old 2009-12-12, 19:32   Link #1710
Kurosu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
Yes and thats the chapter where Hatsukoi Limited ended that or was it 33? You have tto understand that not all shounens go on like One Piece or Naruto, for some cut happens around the chapter like this.
You guys honestly cannot use Hatsukoi Limited as an example, simply because it ran in the same magazine, therefore it should be comparable? No, Hatsukoi seems like it ended, and it's of a completely different genre when compared to Medaka Box. Its scope also allowed it to pretty much end whenever the heck it would want to, I'd like to believe that Hatsukoi ended naturally, or as naturally as a cut manga would have because it pretty much left me satisfied. Anyways, the way Medaka is being paced right now makes it seem like it will last a little longer, it isn't rushing towards anything that signifies the end. If it were to end at all, it would end after this arc.
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Old 2009-12-12, 19:38   Link #1711
Westlo
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Originally Posted by Kurosu View Post
You guys honestly cannot use Hatsukoi Limited as an example, simply because it ran in the same magazine, therefore it should be comparable? No, Hatsukoi seems like it ended, and it's of a completely different genre when compared to Medaka Box. Its scope also allowed it to pretty much end whenever the heck it would want to, I'd like to believe that Hatsukoi ended naturally, or as naturally as a cut manga would have because it pretty much left me satisfied. Anyways, the way Medaka is being paced right now makes it seem like it will last a little longer, it isn't rushing towards anything that signifies the end. If it were to end at all, it would end after this arc.
Just a FYI it didn't end naturally, I think the author left some notes in the last volume where she explains what she had still planned for it. One thing I remember is the older sister of that tsundere blonde was suppose to have a crush on the brother.. of what's her name.. um the one with the brocon. I saw a good blog post detailing that stuff with pics ages ago, shame I can't find it anymore.

But anyway, yes a silly comparison.
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Old 2009-12-12, 19:45   Link #1712
DJ Trouble
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Haters are gonna hate regardless.

As long as I eventually get an anime, I'll be happy.
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Old 2009-12-12, 19:58   Link #1713
Westlo
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Haters gonna hate, lovers gonna love, I don't even want none of the above, I want to p... *coughs*

Anyway I doubt this ever gets an anime.. and if gets one before Zaregoto I think several Nisio fans are going to cry.. lol aint that right stuopidget?
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Old 2009-12-12, 20:05   Link #1714
Darknemo2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Medaka's selling better than Hatsukoi and atm seems nowhere near the end, not really worth comparing the two.
I am just responding to the saying 'this is like infant stage for shounen', because obviously not all shounens go that long you can count chapters around 30 as infant stage, you always have to consider the possibility of it getting cut.

Sometimes, like TLR not even because of the planned cut but because authors personal life (though granted TLR would have gotten a cut anyway, just bit later).
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Old 2009-12-12, 20:19   Link #1715
Amegashita
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Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
The worse part is when you see unrealistic bashing.. like "omg the villians aren't developed like the ones in Umineko even though Umineko VNs has more text than all the chapters of One Piece, Naruto & Bleach combined"
Uhm... I never compared the villains of Umineko to the one's in One Piece, Naruto, and Bleach. I just said that when I found out who the villain was, I was gung-ho about finding out why the villain did what he did. But if you weren't responding to what I said then I apologize for this wasted post. Lol.

Also, little fact, Umineko is a sound novel. Not a visual, even though it's pretty darn visual if you ask me.
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Old 2009-12-12, 21:02   Link #1716
Kurosu
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Hm, since we're all on this shonen cliche trend, why is everyone assuming that we won't get Hard Wrapping's backstory? The battle is far from over, and enemies tend to get the backstory just as they lose/die, well as far as shonen cliches go.
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Old 2009-12-12, 21:24   Link #1717
Kunagisa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Haters gonna hate, lovers gonna love, I don't even want none of the above, I want to p... *coughs*

Anyway I doubt this ever gets an anime.. and if gets one before Zaregoto I think several Nisio fans are going to cry.. lol aint that right stuopidget?
I will rage pretty hard if that happens ... then yes I will cry buckets of tears.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
I am just responding to the saying 'this is like infant stage for shounen', because obviously not all shounens go that long you can count chapters around 30 as infant stage, you always have to consider the possibility of it getting cut.

Sometimes, like TLR not even because of the planned cut but because authors personal life (though granted TLR would have gotten a cut anyway, just bit later).
This is true, but as a writer. I don't think you write the story THINKING that your story will be cut any time soon. I do not read Bakuman so I have no idea how the process works, but the hype and marketing that Nisio gets should at least help him with the manga sales; as such, I don't see much reason to plan a short story to begin with.
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Old 2009-12-12, 22:22   Link #1718
Darknemo2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stuopidget View Post
This is true, but as a writer. I don't think you write the story THINKING that your story will be cut any time soon. I do not read Bakuman so I have no idea how the process works, but the hype and marketing that Nisio gets should at least help him with the manga sales; as such, I don't see much reason to plan a short story to begin with.
Let me remind you that this is already a third Nisio's manga project. The first two were unsuccessful, as the one-shots never got serialized and remained just one-shots, so even a good name is not all that powerful or else both of the earlier one-shots would have been turned into series as well.
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Old 2009-12-12, 23:47   Link #1719
Kunagisa
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Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
Let me remind you that this is already a third Nisio's manga project. The first two were unsuccessful, as the one-shots never got serialized and remained just one-shots, so even a good name is not all that powerful or else both of the earlier one-shots would have been turned into series as well.
I said only mention that fame boosts sales and nothing else. Besides, most of his fame came from Bakemonogatari's anime, which is from 2009, while his one-shots were 2008 and before. Heck even MB started before the anime began airing. However, these are all besides the point, which is that I seriously doubt that writers should develop their stories thinking constantly that their serializations will get axed any minute (except maybe Tanaka Yasuki).
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Old 2009-12-13, 00:06   Link #1720
Rejuvenation
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We can't go a week without the MB hate brigade spreading their doom, gloom, and constant negativity in regards to the series. Good lord enough with the fear mongering and bashing already.

Medaka Box can not be compared to Hatsukoi Limited. Hatsukoi ran at a time period where there were still a lot of Jump's old guard around (Neuro, ES21, TLR) that were all relatively successful(Not One Piece, Naruto, Bleach, Reborn, and Gintama level) and left less room for new series to cushion it. DGM moving to Jump SQ also meant more space for other series to move in.

As of now, those series have ended or moved while this manga has been running and newer series that have started have done worse than Medaka Box and bitten the dust. (Akaboshi, Kagijin, Hoop Men, for example)

This can not be compared to Hatsukoi because even volume wise, WSJ didn't even print enough volumes initially to meet the demand for Medaka's 1st volume. Hatsukoi's 2nd volume did 40150 on its first week. Medaka Box's 2nd volume did 54,194 in its first week with the possibility of doing more on its 2nd week.

Psyren, which is a series that was in a similar position to Medaka Box for most of its running time(Note, in the bottom 5) has barely hit that number of sales even after 8 volumes being released yet it has managed to go on long enough to eventually start ranking better. Partly because it too had other manga that were doing worse than it in some way or another.

Medaka has other series that can arguably be canceled before it as well as better sales than other manga in the magazine when compared at volume 2. I'd love if people would knock off playing the cancellation card and save it for when it actually looks like whats happening in the story is being rushed. But of course since certain people seem eager to just have the series fail unless it goes back to being exactly like the one shot that is too much to ask for.
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