General Questions Thread

[ZippyDSM]

Originally Posted by -KarumA-

Silly q about English language
I thought tart was like a word also used in a sense like this:
Roads you dare not tart
Of is it something else, I think it is but what D: not cross.. another word

Trot is all I can think of.

[Irenicus]

Originally Posted by -KarumA-

Silly q about English language
I thought tart was like a word also used in a sense like this:
Roads you dare not tart
Of is it something else, I think it is but what D: not cross.. another word

'Tis a word so quaint that thou darest not thread?

[-KarumA-]

Originally Posted by Irenicus

'Tis a word so quaint that thou darest not thread?

aye, thank you so much dear sir

[risingstar3110]

I have a quick silly question:

Was trying to download a video file, but accidentally clicked "open" instead. But since even when it "open", it still need to be downloaded into my computer first. So i tracked down that file and got it...

The only problem is: when i cut and paste, it mentioned about how this is the "read only" file only. Does it matter in this case (a video file) ? The size seems to be about right.

[Azuma Denton]

Silly Question from me...

Recently i just read a manga called Yandere Kanojo...
http://www.mangaupdates.com/series.html?id=41619
Apparently this title has two version...
One is Gangan Online's version (currently scanlated until ch 3)
One is Gangan Joker's version (currently scanlated until ch 2)


My question is which one is ongoing one?

Thanks in advance...

[Cipher]

The word "I" is used to refer to the person speaking and its simple because its one letter and it says exactly what it means. but what about "you", why isn't that simply made into "u", why did they bother making those extra letters (YO).?

[Ansalem]

Originally Posted by Cipher

The word "I" is used to refer to the person speaking and its simple because its one letter and it says exactly what it means. but what about "you", why isn't that simply made into "u", why did they bother making those extra letters (YO).?

The etymological origins of the words for "I" and "you" are not related to the English alphabet, despite being homophones for the letters "i" and "u".

[escimo]

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

I have a quick silly question:

Was trying to download a video file, but accidentally clicked "open" instead. But since even when it "open", it still need to be downloaded into my computer first. So i tracked down that file and got it...

The only problem is: when i cut and paste, it mentioned about how this is the "read only" file only. Does it matter in this case (a video file) ? The size seems to be about right.

If you have the browser or the player open the file is locked, so you need to copy and paste it instead of cut and paste. I'm not sure if closing the player would unlock the file but it will most likely be removed on closing the browser so in that case you need to redownload it.

[JRendell]

Originally Posted by Cipher

The word "I" is used to refer to the person speaking and its simple because its one letter and it says exactly what it means. but what about "you", why isn't that simply made into "u", why did they bother making those extra letters (YO).?

You can only pronounce the word 'you' one way. However, you can pronounce the letter 'u' in different ways. In Early Modern English, the word 'you' was not used, 'thou' was. So I'm putting some logic into assuming that they kept the 'o' and 'u' from 'thou' and made 'you'.

You've also got to remember that letters/words such as 'I' were not created to be beneficially simple.

[Ansalem]

Originally Posted by JRendell

You can only pronounce the word 'you' one way. However, you can pronounce the letter 'u' in different ways. In Early Modern English, the word 'you' was not used, 'thou' was. So I'm putting some logic into assuming that they kept the 'o' and 'u' from 'thou' and made 'you'.

This isn't really the case. Sort of simply put, thou (þu in Old English) was the second person singular nominative (meaning it was used in the subject) pronoun. Ye (ge in Old English) was the 2nd person plural nominative pronoun. You (eow in Old English) was basically the plural version of thou when used as the object of the sentence, and also for ye when used as the object of the sentence. The meanings of you and ye merged over time. When the Normans invaded England, use of French was wide spread and the meaning of you was influenced by the French word vous, which is both used as a plural and as a respectful word for the singular. So you began to be used instead of thou to address superiors in the singular in a polite manner, and eventually became common usage for all 2nd personal pronouns, singular and plural.

[JRendell]

Originally Posted by Ansalem

This isn't really the case. Sort of simply put, thou (þu in Old English) was the second person singular nominative (meaning it was used in the subject) pronoun. Ye (ge in Old English) was the 2nd person plural nominative pronoun. You (eow in Old English) was basically the plural version of thou when used as the object of the sentence, and also for ye when used as the object of the sentence. The meanings of you and ye merged over time. When the Normans invaded England, use of French was wide spread and the meaning of you was influenced by the French word vous, which is both used as a plural and as a respectful word for the singular. So you began to be used instead of thou to address superiors in the singular in a polite manner, and eventually became common usage for all 2nd personal pronouns, singular and plural.

Sorted, cheers for clearing that up

[Cipher]

Originally Posted by JRendell

You can only pronounce the word 'you' one way. However, you can pronounce the letter 'u' in different ways. In Early Modern English, the word 'you' was not used, 'thou' was. So I'm putting some logic into assuming that they kept the 'o' and 'u' from 'thou' and made 'you'.

You've also got to remember that letters/words such as 'I' were not created to be beneficially simple.

Originally Posted by Ansalem

This isn't really the case. Sort of simply put, thou (þu in Old English) was the second person singular nominative (meaning it was used in the subject) pronoun. Ye (ge in Old English) was the 2nd person plural nominative pronoun. You (eow in Old English) was basically the plural version of thou when used as the object of the sentence, and also for ye when used as the object of the sentence. The meanings of you and ye merged over time. When the Normans invaded England, use of French was wide spread and the meaning of you was influenced by the French word vous, which is both used as a plural and as a respectful word for the singular. So you began to be used instead of thou to address superiors in the singular in a polite manner, and eventually became common usage for all 2nd personal pronouns, singular and plural.

why didn't they just made it simpler....

[dragon4dudes]

Because the there was too much simplicity. Lol

No actually English is dervied from Germanic languages, but is also related to French. I couldn't tell you which language goes a certain word is actually derived from.

Just a note, languages usually aren't decided on the spot. There isn't some person or group that said, "I have created this language and we're all going to use it from now on." (Be pretty weird) Though I think Latin and Greek had something like that happen...

In languages that don't really use an alphabet, such as Chinese, characters are dervied from objects of similarity. "Cow" in written Chinese look like a cow's head. These characters tend to change to simplicity. (ie from traditional to simplified Chinese)

Words from alphabetical languages (ie English, French, German, Russian, etc) Tend to be borrowed from one language and may be morphed due to phonetics or to match the alphabet. "Cliche" technically should be spelled "cliché" but there is not accent in English. Sometimes words undergo a change in one nation but not another which speaks the same language. For example, American English - color, British English - colour.

Wow I don't think I really helped with the question, but after typing this, it seems to be a waste to delete it. lol.

[SuperSaiyanOver9000]

what does desu mean

I see it everywhere and say it all the time claiming everywhere needs more of it
for all I know it could be a curse

[oompa loompa]

Originally Posted by SuperSaiyanOver9000

what does desu mean

I see it everywhere and say it all the time claiming everywhere needs more of it
for all I know it could be a curse

literally?.. probably closest to the verb to be right?

[Cipher]

Originally Posted by dragon4dudes

Because the there was too much simplicity. Lol

No actually English is dervied from Germanic languages, but is also related to French. I couldn't tell you which language goes a certain word is actually derived from.

Just a note, languages usually aren't decided on the spot. There isn't some person or group that said, "I have created this language and we're all going to use it from now on." (Be pretty weird) Though I think Latin and Greek had something like that happen...

In languages that don't really use an alphabet, such as Chinese, characters are dervied from objects of similarity. "Cow" in written Chinese look like a cow's head. These characters tend to change to simplicity. (ie from traditional to simplified Chinese)

Words from alphabetical languages (ie English, French, German, Russian, etc) Tend to be borrowed from one language and may be morphed due to phonetics or to match the alphabet. "Cliche" technically should be spelled "cliché" but there is not accent in English. Sometimes words undergo a change in one nation but not another which speaks the same language. For example, American English - color, British English - colour.

Wow I don't think I really helped with the question, but after typing this, it seems to be a waste to delete it. lol.

not a waste at all. I think they, whoever's in charge, should make it simpler *now*.

[Ansalem]

Originally Posted by Cipher

not a waste at all. I think they, whoever's in charge, should make it simpler *now*.

Well, there's not exactly an English language lord who can whimsically make official changes. Besides, there's plenty enough corruption of the language without making internet and texting shorthand part of the language. I can just imagine high school kids learning "new" Shakespeare. "Romeo, Romeo, where4 r u Romeo?" Also, while we're on that quote, "wherefore" means why, not where, so all those "over here" jokes don't make any sense.

[Vexx]

There's no one "in charge" of English.... its a polyglot mess of words strung together from a variety of cultures over a thousand years. Of *course* its going to be very messy. At least it dropped most of the case structures and "noun gender" that its cousins have (European languages).... but it has all sorts of oddities and irregular bits in every corner of the language. And lately we've been adding all sorts of asian-sourced words just to make it more exciting as well as reverse-importing spanish and other languages.

For a good lesson in how a language evolves -- read Shakespeare..... then read Beowulf. They're both in "english", just from different time periods. Languages evolve. If *enough* people use "U" rather than "You" ... it will probably become the norm... but it has enough potential to confuse that I doubt it. I'm still waiting for an "official" plural-you ("youse", "ya'll", "you guys") to come back.
Beowulf prologue:

Spoiler for Old English:

Hwæt! We Gardena in geardagum,
þeodcyninga, þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon.
Oft Scyld Scefing sceaþena þreatum,
5 monegum mægþum, meodosetla ofteah,
egsode eorlas. Syððan ærest wearð
feasceaft funden, he þæs frofre gebad,
weox under wolcnum, weorðmyndum þah,
oðþæt him æghwylc þara ymbsittendra
10 ofer hronrade hyran scolde,
gomban gyldan. þæt wæs god cyning!
Ðæm eafera wæs æfter cenned,
geong in geardum, þone god sende
folce to frofre; fyrenðearfe ongeat
15 þe hie ær drugon aldorlease
lange hwile. Him þæs liffrea,
wuldres wealdend, woroldare forgeaf;
Beowulf wæs breme (blæd wide sprang),
Scyldes eafera Scedelandum in.
20 Swa sceal geong guma gode gewyrcean,
fromum feohgiftum on fæder bearme,
þæt hine on ylde eft gewunigen
wilgesiþas, þonne wig cume,
leode gelæsten; lofdædum sceal
25 in mægþa gehwære man geþeon.
Him ða Scyld gewat to gescæphwile
felahror feran on frean wære.
Hi hyne þa ætbæron to brimes faroðe,
swæse gesiþas, swa he selfa bæd,
30 þenden wordum weold wine Scyldinga;
leof landfruma lange ahte.
þær æt hyðe stod hringedstefna,
isig ond utfus, æþelinges fær.
Aledon þa leofne þeoden,
35 beaga bryttan, on bearm scipes,
mærne be mæste. þær wæs madma fela
of feorwegum, frætwa, gelæded;
ne hyrde ic cymlicor ceol gegyrwan
hildewæpnum ond heaðowædum,
40 billum ond byrnum; him on bearme læg
madma mænigo, þa him mid scoldon
on flodes æht feor gewitan.
Nalæs hi hine læssan lacum teodan,
þeodgestreonum, þon þa dydon
45 þe hine æt frumsceafte forð onsendon
ænne ofer yðe umborwesende.
þa gyt hie him asetton segen geldenne
heah ofer heafod, leton holm beran,
geafon on garsecg; him wæs geomor sefa,
50 murnende mod. Men ne cunnon
secgan to soðe, selerædende,
hæleð under heofenum, hwa þæm hlæste onfeng.

Shakespeare (Hamlet speaking):

Spoiler for "Middle English":

Slanders, sir: for the satirical rogue says here
that old men have grey beards, that their faces are
wrinkled, their eyes purging thick amber and
plum-tree gum and that they have a plentiful lack of
wit, together with most weak hams: all which, sir,
though I most powerfully and potently believe, yet
I hold it not honesty to have it thus set down, for
yourself, sir, should be old as I am, if like a crab
you could go backward.

English according to Richard Lederer in the Urban Dictionary:

Spoiler for Urban Dictionary quote:

Either means the people of England or a sadly mangled language. Once belonging to the Germanic Anglo-Saxons, the language has since become influenced by scores of other languages, slowly destroying the English language and its structure and rules.

Shanty (From Gaelic "Sean taigh"("old house")), galore (from Gaelic "gu leòr" ("enough")), whiskey (from Gaelic "uisge" ("water")), hamburger (from "Hamburg steak"), flower (from French "fleur", itself from Latin "flor"), bloom (from German "blum" ("flower")) and countless other words from so many other languages have, for better or worse, steeped into English.
"Let’s face it: English is a crazy language. There is no egg in eggplant or ham in hamburger, neither apple nor pine in pineapple.
English muffins were not invented in England or french fries in France. Sweetmeats are candies, while sweetbreads, which aren’t sweet, are meat.
We take English for granted. But if we explore its paradoxes, we find that quicksand can work slowly, boxing rings are square, and a guinea pig is neither from Guinea nor is it a pig. And why is it that writers write, but fingers don’t fing, grocers don’t groce, and hammers don’t ham? If the plural of tooth is teeth, why isn’t the plural of booth beeth? One goose, 2 geese. So, one moose, 2 meese? One index, two indices? Is cheese the plural of choose?
If teachers taught, why didn’t preachers praught? If a vegetarian eats vegetables, what does a humanitarian eat?
In what language do people recite at a play and play at a recital? Ship by truck and send cargo by ship? Have noses that run and feet that smell? Park on driveways and drive on parkways?
How can a slim chance and a fat chance be the same, while a wise man and a wise guy are opposites? How can the weather be hot as hell one day an cold as hell another?
When a house burns up, it burns down. You fill in a form by filling it out and an alarm clock goes off by going on.
When the stars are out, they are visible, but when the lights are out, they are invisible. And why, when I wind up my watch, I start it, but when I wind up this essay, I end it?
Now I know why I flunked my English. It’s not my fault; the silly language doesn’t quite know whether it’s coming or going." -Richard Lederer.

And my favorite way to describe the language:
a language that lurks in dark alleys, beats up other languages and rifles through their pockets for spare vocabulary

[Cipher]

Originally Posted by Ansalem

Well, there's not exactly an English language lord who can whimsically make official changes. Besides, there's plenty enough corruption of the language without making internet and texting shorthand part of the language. I can just imagine high school kids learning "new" Shakespeare. "Romeo, Romeo, where4 r u Romeo?" Also, while we're on that quote, "wherefore" means why, not where, so all those "over here" jokes don't make any sense.

Originally Posted by Vexx

There's no one "in charge" of English.... its a polyglot mess of words strung together from a variety of cultures over a thousand years. Of *course* its going to be very messy. At least it dropped most of the case structures and "noun gender" that its cousins have (European languages).... but it has all sorts of oddities and irregular bits in every corner of the language. And lately we've been adding all sorts of asian-sourced words just to make it more exciting as well as reverse-importing spanish and other languages.

For a good lesson in how things evolve -- read Shakespeare..... then read Beowulf. They're both in "english", just from different time periods.
Beowulf prologue:

Spoiler for Old English:

Hwæt! We Gardena in geardagum,
þeodcyninga, þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon.
Oft Scyld Scefing sceaþena þreatum,
5 monegum mægþum, meodosetla ofteah,
egsode eorlas. Syððan ærest wearð
feasceaft funden, he þæs frofre gebad,
weox under wolcnum, weorðmyndum þah,
oðþæt him æghwylc þara ymbsittendra
10 ofer hronrade hyran scolde,
gomban gyldan. þæt wæs god cyning!
Ðæm eafera wæs æfter cenned,
geong in geardum, þone god sende
folce to frofre; fyrenðearfe ongeat
15 þe hie ær drugon aldorlease
lange hwile. Him þæs liffrea,
wuldres wealdend, woroldare forgeaf;
Beowulf wæs breme (blæd wide sprang),
Scyldes eafera Scedelandum in.
20 Swa sceal geong guma gode gewyrcean,
fromum feohgiftum on fæder bearme,
þæt hine on ylde eft gewunigen
wilgesiþas, þonne wig cume,
leode gelæsten; lofdædum sceal
25 in mægþa gehwære man geþeon.
Him ða Scyld gewat to gescæphwile
felahror feran on frean wære.
Hi hyne þa ætbæron to brimes faroðe,
swæse gesiþas, swa he selfa bæd,
30 þenden wordum weold wine Scyldinga;
leof landfruma lange ahte.
þær æt hyðe stod hringedstefna,
isig ond utfus, æþelinges fær.
Aledon þa leofne þeoden,
35 beaga bryttan, on bearm scipes,
mærne be mæste. þær wæs madma fela
of feorwegum, frætwa, gelæded;
ne hyrde ic cymlicor ceol gegyrwan
hildewæpnum ond heaðowædum,
40 billum ond byrnum; him on bearme læg
madma mænigo, þa him mid scoldon
on flodes æht feor gewitan.
Nalæs hi hine læssan lacum teodan,
þeodgestreonum, þon þa dydon
45 þe hine æt frumsceafte forð onsendon
ænne ofer yðe umborwesende.
þa gyt hie him asetton segen geldenne
heah ofer heafod, leton holm beran,
geafon on garsecg; him wæs geomor sefa,
50 murnende mod. Men ne cunnon
secgan to soðe, selerædende,
hæleð under heofenum, hwa þæm hlæste onfeng.

Shakespeare (Hamlet speaking):

Spoiler for "middle english":

Slanders, sir: for the satirical rogue says here
that old men have grey beards, that their faces are
wrinkled, their eyes purging thick amber and
plum-tree gum and that they have a plentiful lack of
wit, together with most weak hams: all which, sir,
though I most powerfully and potently believe, yet
I hold it not honesty to have it thus set down, for
yourself, sir, should be old as I am, if like a crab
you could go backward.

English according to Richard Lederer in the Urban Dictionary:

Spoiler for Urban Dictionary quote:

Either means the people of England or a sadly mangled language. Once belonging to the Germanic Anglo-Saxons, the language has since become influenced by scores of other languages, slowly destroying the English language and its structure and rules.

Shanty (From Gaelic "Sean taigh"("old house")), galore (from Gaelic "gu leòr" ("enough")), whiskey (from Gaelic "uisge" ("water")), hamburger (from "Hamburg steak"), flower (from French "fleur", itself from Latin "flor"), bloom (from German "blum" ("flower")) and countless other words from so many other languages have, for better or worse, steeped into English.
"Let’s face it: English is a crazy language. There is no egg in eggplant or ham in hamburger, neither apple nor pine in pineapple.
English muffins were not invented in England or french fries in France. Sweetmeats are candies, while sweetbreads, which aren’t sweet, are meat.
We take English for granted. But if we explore its paradoxes, we find that quicksand can work slowly, boxing rings are square, and a guinea pig is neither from Guinea nor is it a pig. And why is it that writers write, but fingers don’t fing, grocers don’t groce, and hammers don’t ham? If the plural of tooth is teeth, why isn’t the plural of booth beeth? One goose, 2 geese. So, one moose, 2 meese? One index, two indices? Is cheese the plural of choose?
If teachers taught, why didn’t preachers praught? If a vegetarian eats vegetables, what does a humanitarian eat?
In what language do people recite at a play and play at a recital? Ship by truck and send cargo by ship? Have noses that run and feet that smell? Park on driveways and drive on parkways?
How can a slim chance and a fat chance be the same, while a wise man and a wise guy are opposites? How can the weather be hot as hell one day an cold as hell another?
When a house burns up, it burns down. You fill in a form by filling it out and an alarm clock goes off by going on.
When the stars are out, they are visible, but when the lights are out, they are invisible. And why, when I wind up my watch, I start it, but when I wind up this essay, I end it?
Now I know why I flunked my English. It’s not my fault; the silly language doesn’t quite know whether it’s coming or going." -Richard Lederer.

And my favorite way to describe the language:
a language that lurks in dark alleys, beats up other languages and rifles through their pockets for spare vocabulary

new info for me. Language is a hard product to assemble with simplicity.

[dragon4dudes]

Originally Posted by Vexx

And my favorite way to describe the language:
a language that lurks in dark alleys, beats up other languages and rifles through their pockets for spare vocabulary

That's pretty correct. Much of English is borrowed vocab. Escargot, use of "etc" (et cetera), uh... Can't think of anymore off the top of my head.