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Old 2009-12-17, 16:06   Link #521
VanityWantsYou
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Eclipse, if the new project is definitely a third season with Lelouch and them all back in it, I actually won't be dreading it at all. Sure, some say that R2 was nothing compared to the first season, but I think it was just as great. It captured the Code Geass charm of making you go "WTF?!" almost every single episode. I'm sure the third season would be just as great as the turns before, maybe even with more "WTF" material. Anything with the original characters and a continuation of R2 would be amazing for me.

Code Geass is ultimately my favorite anime.

Also, an alternate universe stemming from the end of season one would be pretty cool too. Maybe Lelouch wouldn't die in that one ;__;
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Old 2009-12-17, 16:11   Link #522
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I'm just going to call this one now:

Spoiler for You know it.:


Ah, fun stuff.
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Old 2009-12-17, 16:32   Link #523
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no way to know till its released.
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Old 2009-12-17, 17:55   Link #524
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Anyone who knows even a little about Clamp's character designs know that most of their characters look the same.. if we're going to play that ball then I might as well throw in that Tianzi looks like Hinoto, but that doesn't mean that they are in some way the same

Also the new project is NOT a third season, how people come up with that crap I don't know but it is time to get out of denial now and move on..
This is a new project, different time era.. different names.. with CC who doesn't even fit in the era
If we look back at CC's past we know she was wearing dresses in the style of the 1800's so in the geass anime universe she could not be in Japan's Meiji era cause she was too busy flirting with men and using her geass before finally becoming immortal, the dress she wore when posing as a noble rich woman is one the nobles wore in the 1800's, the basic design fits that era

Lastly.. just get over with. There isn't going to be a third season, Lelouch is dead there will be no alternative ending
This project is about a whole new manga, the anime and manga versions are completely different and above all the manga has not even fully ended yet if I am correct so why on Earth would they make a sequel (specially about something that already has a manga, that hasn't ended yet on paper and of which a sequel would make no sense at all)

We don't know anything else about this series yet, but the majority is already falling into the rapid fangirl mode trap, all the thinsg said int he article is just as a first promo. you can NEVER tell what will happen based on the extra comments next to: new project, summary, character names
All other is just to catch your eye, anyone who would be a Lelouch fan would have their eyes wide open at the mention of his name and would surely pick the series up.. well simply cause they hope that it will have him in it due to the mention.. anyone believing this at this point is falling for the commercialism trap they have set up to get more readers and will be disappointed cause they are getting their hopes way too high
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Old 2009-12-17, 18:06   Link #525
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Quote:
Also the new project is NOT a third season, how people come up with that crap I don't know but it is time to get out of denial now and move on..
Also the new project is NOT only a new manga
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Old 2009-12-17, 18:36   Link #526
-KarumA-
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Originally Posted by konart View Post
Also the new project is NOT only a new manga
true but nothing indicates that it has anything to do with an R3 or anything in that section
R3 is not going to happen because it would ruin the fanbase, there is nothing more to add but plot changes that make no sense compared to the other seasons
It is like still wanting to make a third Gundam Seed season without knowing what to do (and they tried that, but now 2 years later still nothing and I don't expect to see it also) (surely they learned with Gundam Seed not to ruin a fanbase when it is at its peak for a show)

If we compare this to what happened at R1, when it was just starting to air
They started with the manga and the manga and anime were going simultaneously, they had everything written out plot-wise, the only difference was that the method of it all was different due to the lack of some things in the manga. There is a higher chance that this new manga project will be animated and that those first promos will release in January or in spring (because a major project always airs in fall on the best time slot, hardly ever do they start in spring and run through in summer when everyone goes on holiday etc.)

When it comes to commercialism and promotion my hunches are usually correct and I can see sense in not doing a Nightmare of Nunnally. If they were to animate that manga then people seeing it would think back to Lelouch of the Rebellion and would start comparing (due to the same characters). Seeing as the R1+R2 series have a vast fanbase that will not budge to anything it would only result in people saying "well it is good but R1 and R2 were so much better than this..." which is only bad for their show's position in the market... so what comes then.. make a new series with new characters and leave all the older ones out, a fresh start so that people will not go "but Lelouch as Zero was far cooler than that lookalike guy". The only possibility that the old cast will show up is that they will have a small role or that they show up a lot later in the story. (and CC's presence is required of course, but her personality will not be THAT much different as seeing that her role as immortal witch hasn't changed either)

The only reason why there is a mention of Lelouch is to catch the eyes of all Code Geass predators who are still holding onto their favorite characters. If there was no mention of Lelouch's name then the discussions here would be a whole lot different from what is being typed at this moment and that is just what they want. The word will be spread amongst fans that Lelouch might be back or that there is something or someone that has a connection to him, they would all start looking and spread like bunnies to catch a glimpse of what is going on with this new project. And this only means one thing: more customers and a darn good first issue sell rate to fill their pockets
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Old 2009-12-17, 18:57   Link #527
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Originally Posted by -KarumA- View Post
true but nothing indicates that it has anything to do with an R3 or anything in that section
R3 is not going to happen because it would ruin the fanbase, there is nothing more to add but plot changes that make no sense compared to the other seasons
It is like still wanting to make a third Gundam Seed season without knowing what to do (and they tried that, but now 2 years later still nothing and I don't expect to see it also) (surely they learned with Gundam Seed not to ruin a fanbase when it is at its peak for a show)

If we compare this to what happened at R1, when it was just starting to air
They started with the manga and the manga and anime were going simultaneously, they had everything written out plot-wise, the only difference was that the method of it all was different due to the lack of some things in the manga. There is a higher chance that this new manga project will be animated and that those first promos will release in January or in spring (because a major project always airs in fall on the best time slot, hardly ever do they start in spring and run through in summer when everyone goes on holiday etc.)

When it comes to commercialism and promotion my hunches are usually correct and I can see sense in not doing a Nightmare of Nunnally. If they were to animate that manga then people seeing it would think back to Lelouch of the Rebellion and would start comparing (due to the same characters). Seeing as the R1+R2 series have a vast fanbase that will not budge to anything it would only result in people saying "well it is good but R1 and R2 were so much better than this..." which is only bad for their show's position in the market... so what comes then.. make a new series with new characters and leave all the older ones out, a fresh start so that people will not go "but Lelouch as Zero was far cooler than that lookalike guy". The only possibility that the old cast will show up is that they will have a small role or that they show up a lot later in the story. (and CC's presence is required of course, but her personality will not be THAT much different as seeing that her role as immortal witch hasn't changed either)

The only reason why there is a mention of Lelouch is to catch the eyes of all Code Geass predators who are still holding onto their favorite characters. If there was no mention of Lelouch's name then the discussions here would be a whole lot different from what is being typed at this moment and that is just what they want. The word will be spread amongst fans that Lelouch might be back or that there is something or someone that has a connection to him, they would all start looking and spread like bunnies to catch a glimpse of what is going on with this new project. And this only means one thing: more customers and a darn good first issue sell rate to fill their pockets
1) The bold- Thank you for speaking based on half of all the fanbase... ok, no, just stop. It would not ruin the fanbase. You have a fair amount of fans that want a sequel, with or without Lelouch, want a remake of R2, want a future story, etc. Stop acting as if your opinion is in higher regards than to everyone else. There will always be a group of fans that don't like certain decisions, but the decision can often work out well for a series.

2) Gundam Seed was a very bad choice for an example of a series. The Gundam Seed Movie was set to pretty much be produced until the story writer became ill from cancer and had to take leave to help her recovery efforts. I would think this shows that they still had plans of what they could have done.

3) No comment on the rest. Just more random speculation on what Sunrise could or couldn't be doing.
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Old 2009-12-17, 19:51   Link #528
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One of the biggest reasons why I want an anime over a manga is the musical score. The background music for Code Geass was extremely powerful and invoked a lot of good images. They fit well with the scenes and, it was just amazing.
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Old 2009-12-17, 20:26   Link #529
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -KarumA- View Post
true but nothing indicates that it has anything to do with an R3 or anything in that section
The same goes about any other thing. It gives us nothing untill 2010
And yea - R3 can't really do much shit to fanbase after the R2
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Old 2009-12-18, 03:39   Link #530
-KarumA-
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if a sequel does not match the expectations then you know what will happen to the fanbase, not just here
people here are talking with expectations too high, it's crazy

anyone who knows even a little about marketing should know that milking at this point is bad, because the expectations will be far too high and to match those you end up with a crappy, overdone and no sense making story

I am not talking just about the people here, a show's statistics online are different from it's statistics when it airs on a channel and when the merchandise is released

edit: there is a nice discussion going on about the general subject here
to please fans or to make something original and someone made a very good point about an R3

Quote:
Originally Posted by roriconfan View Post
And know what? The next Code Geass will flop too because of it. If it stopped there, it would be a legend, despite its flaws. But now? They are going to butcher it, as they did with Haruhi. Why? Because they heard the fans and want munny.

Last edited by -KarumA-; 2009-12-18 at 07:14.
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Old 2009-12-18, 07:08   Link #531
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Code Geass R2 was trash. It took most of the best subplots in the first season and totally flushed them or just rushed through most of them in order to reach some sort of conclusion with Lelouch's father.

Code Geass R2... a giant collection of PLOT HOLES!!! PLOT HOLES!

Code Geass R2 = SECOND DISC OF XENOGEARS, Matrix 2 and 3
Code Geass (season 1) = first disc of Xenogears, Matrix 1

Code Geass S1 is one of my favorite 20something episodes of anime ever! I discovered the series, was hooked from the first episode... i marathoned it in a weekend. Awesome anime. Awesome subplots. The story was going somewhere R2 didn't go.

The scene where Lelouch and CC form their Geass pact introduces some tribe of girls with markings on their heads... where were they in R2? What about the whole subplot with you know... Geass powers and CHINA? They went to China but wtf happened there? Nothing about CC.

CC is hundreds of years old and she had this cult that worshipped her. And she spent time in China. Governments all over the world have wanted her. Let's forget about that. Let's forget how Zero's "sacrifice" doesn't really solve anything when CC would still be a target. There were hints in the series that CC was not the only source of Geass. Isn't it implied that wars have been fought over her?

What about Milly's family? How about Kallen's well connected father? Milly us gushing over Kallen's father and last name. Yet, that's totally thrown out.

The most important part of the franchise was vaguely explored. We got the thought elevator and some other junk but we still didn't get any background behind the power.

Oh yeah, let's forget how Jeremiah didn't want Lelouch to die but was totally chill, calm, and collected when Lelouch got skewered.

Last edited by mechalord; 2009-12-18 at 07:19.
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Old 2009-12-18, 11:27   Link #532
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Actually, I think Jeremiah was perfectly IC during Zero Requiem, but... oh well.
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Old 2009-12-18, 11:43   Link #533
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Originally Posted by mechalord View Post
Code Geass R2 = SECOND DISC OF XENOGEARS, Matrix 2 and 3
Code Geass (season 1) = first disc of Xenogears, Matrix 1
That's actually an appropriate comparison...but it also illustrates how, for example, the second disc of Xenogears still had enough interesting elements and any disappointment I felt stopped short of automatically dismissing the whole thing. You're free to disagree, of course, but I think it's better to salvage what we can.

Quote:
The story was going somewhere R2 didn't go.
That really depends on what you mean by "story" because, as far as Lelouch's rise and fall is concerned, which was the story's main topic and theme, things did go in one direction. You can easily see a predictable progression in that respect without too much trouble.

Quote:
The scene where Lelouch and CC form their Geass pact introduces some tribe of girls with markings on their heads... where were they in R2? What about the whole subplot with you know... Geass powers and CHINA? They went to China but wtf happened there? Nothing about CC.
There's a few points of note here that should at least be mentioned.

One is the question of whether or not the forgotten past of Geass is relevant to Lelouch's story as whole.

From the perspective of having a tighter script and using good storytelling it should have been, admittedly, but that was not an inherent necessity in and of itself as far as Lelouch's personal drama is concerned. Which is probably why it was never elaborated upon too much.

It should also be mentioned that Taniguchi, the director, likes to keep certain things vague and mysterious, open to viewer interpretation, as seen in several of his previous shows.

In other words, expecting that there would be a full set of revelations and explicit descriptions about the history of Geass was probably nothing more than wishful thinking because that's not part of his style and it wasn't the central aspect of the story. Even without R2's rush, I don't think that would have changed.

Another one would be the fact that the Geass Cult was based in China and, as rushed as its related developments were, we did learn about C.C.'s past in the process. Not enough, some might argue, but more than what little we knew beforehand.

Quote:
CC is hundreds of years old and she had this cult that worshipped her. And she spent time in China. Governments all over the world have wanted her. Let's forget about that. Let's forget how Zero's "sacrifice" doesn't really solve anything when CC would still be a target. There were hints in the series that CC was not the only source of Geass. Isn't it implied that wars have been fought over her?
I'm not sure you can extrapolate that when we never see or hear about any other modern government, outside of Britannia, being interested in C.C. or Geass as a whole. Likewise, it's possible to interpret those flashbacks in several different ways, depending on your perspective. It's hard to tell.

Quote:
What about Milly's family? How about Kallen's well connected father? Milly us gushing over Kallen's father and last name. Yet, that's totally thrown out.
Milly's family did have some interesting connections, related to Marianne and past events, but they were never portrayed as too active in terms of the larger plot. Milly's arranged marriage to Lloyd was the only area where we ever saw the (implicit) results of their influence and that was resolved early in R2.

I think I've talked about Kallen's father and/or family before, but the reasoning would be similar enough.

Quote:
The most important part of the franchise was vaguely explored. We got the thought elevator and some other junk but we still didn't get any background
behind the power.
Along the same lines of what I just wrote and going by the available interviews...I would say that if you asked Okouchi or Taniguchi if "the background behind the power" was the "most important part of the franchise" they would probably say "no" because it was all about the character drama surrounding Lelouch.

Quote:
Oh yeah, let's forget how Jeremiah didn't want Lelouch to die but was totally chill, calm, and collected when Lelouch got skewered.
I think this was touched upon, briefly, in one of the picture dramas. I'm not going to argue that it's not avoided in a rather sloppy fashion during the actual show though, but it can still be rationalized.
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Old 2009-12-18, 19:07   Link #534
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Uh huh. Well, I wouldn't be disappointed at all with a third season. Shit or not, I'm a Code Geass fan through and through. Plus, if anyone's noticed, anime marketing industries don't seem to ever think "this isn't worth milking anymore". Gundam continues to be milked, Haruhi continues to be milked, etc. It doesn't matter if the show will be amazing or not, people will watch their favorite shows anyway. With a show as popular as Code Geass, there's no way Sunrise wouldn't want to make another season or wouldn't even want to make a movie.
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Old 2009-12-19, 16:18   Link #535
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Originally Posted by mechalord View Post
Code Geass R2 was trash. It took most of the best subplots in the first season and totally flushed them or just rushed through most of them in order to reach some sort of conclusion with Lelouch's father.

Code Geass R2... a giant collection of PLOT HOLES!!! PLOT HOLES!

Code Geass R2 = SECOND DISC OF XENOGEARS, Matrix 2 and 3
Code Geass (season 1) = first disc of Xenogears, Matrix 1

Code Geass S1 is one of my favorite 20something episodes of anime ever! I discovered the series, was hooked from the first episode... i marathoned it in a weekend. Awesome anime. Awesome subplots. The story was going somewhere R2 didn't go.

The scene where Lelouch and CC form their Geass pact introduces some tribe of girls with markings on their heads... where were they in R2? What about the whole subplot with you know... Geass powers and CHINA? They went to China but wtf happened there? Nothing about CC.

CC is hundreds of years old and she had this cult that worshipped her. And she spent time in China. Governments all over the world have wanted her. Let's forget about that. Let's forget how Zero's "sacrifice" doesn't really solve anything when CC would still be a target. There were hints in the series that CC was not the only source of Geass. Isn't it implied that wars have been fought over her?

What about Milly's family? How about Kallen's well connected father? Milly us gushing over Kallen's father and last name. Yet, that's totally thrown out.

The most important part of the franchise was vaguely explored. We got the thought elevator and some other junk but we still didn't get any background behind the power.

Oh yeah, let's forget how Jeremiah didn't want Lelouch to die but was totally chill, calm, and collected when Lelouch got skewered.
I agree that many subplots were thrown away but I think CC plot got very well explained...
The Plot about China is when Lelouch kills everyone in the Geass Cult... it was in China because it moves from one place to another so no one would find about it...
I never recall someone saying that countries fight each other for CC in fact countries fight each other because of Sakuradite...
We see CC being hit and burn because people thought she was a witch and as people in that time did they burned her...
The pictures of CC in wars are because she is a witness, because she lived them not because countries were fighting for her...
There were a few people who knew about her and Geass...

I think one of the important subplots that was thrown was the one about Suzaku and his relation with Geass, what happened there?

About the new project I wanna ask if CLAMP will be in charge of the character design again? I will love that...

There is a way to continue R3 remember that Schneizel is alive, geassed but alive and for what I can recall Kanon wasnt geassed so... if Schneizel gets ungeassed something might happen... but I doubt Lelouch comes back from the grave...
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Old 2009-12-19, 18:38   Link #536
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Originally Posted by mechalord View Post
Code Geass R2 = SECOND DISC OF XENOGEARS, Matrix 2 and 3
Code Geass (season 1) = first disc of Xenogears, Matrix 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xander View Post
That's actually an appropriate comparison...but it also illustrates how, for example, the second disc of Xenogears still had enough interesting elements and any disappointment I felt stopped short of automatically dismissing the whole thing. You're free to disagree, of course, but I think it's better to salvage what we can.
First, it makes me feel warm and fuzzy that people still remember Xenogears. Those were the days...

Second, the analogy is indeed apt with regards to storytelling, but a fair number of people preferred the second disc of Xenogears to the first, due to all the plot revelations, the faster pace (some felt the first disc was too slow paced), and questions actually being answered. R2 also had more plot and a faster pace, but it didn't answer many of R1's questions and it squandered/abandoned more subplots, in addition to feeling rushed.
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Old 2009-12-19, 19:20   Link #537
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Originally Posted by Bionicman View Post
First, it makes me feel warm and fuzzy that people still remember Xenogears. Those were the days...
Indeed. That was definitely one of the highlights of the PSX era and it's a pity how nothing else has been done with that universe. No, Xenosaga wasn't really the same thing, as much as it admittedly came close.

Quote:
Second, the analogy is indeed apt with regards to storytelling, but a fair number of people preferred the second disc of Xenogears to the first, due to all the plot revelations, the faster pace (some felt the first disc was too slow paced), and questions actually being answered. R2 also had more plot and a faster pace, but it didn't answer many of R1's questions and it squandered/abandoned more subplots, in addition to feeling rushed.
Well, there are enough people who also prefer R2 to the first season, if polls are any indication, so it depends on your perspective. That would not be my personal opinion, of course, but there's no way to deny it at this point. R2 might have lost something in terms of critical quality but it maintained the franchise's overall popularity. I don't think we would even be talking about new Geass projects if that weren't the case.

I would also say that R2 did answer certain questions, mind you, it just didn't do so as thoroughly nor as carefully as many expected. Which is, ironically enough, something that one of these new projects could potentially address.
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Old 2009-12-19, 22:15   Link #538
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One should note that the first season and R2 were probably being aimed at different demographics. Now this may sound a bit harsh to some and I don't mean any offense to anyone (Some people can be touchy about this), but R2 was geared to be watched by the lowest common denominator. It's not hard to tell, really.

I, myself, ultimately feel as though R2 doesn't really belong with the first season...it just seems too different. I could accept it as an AU, sure, but as a moth eaten plot and bad trope riddled addition to a fairly well fleshed out series? No way, man.

Welp, third time's a charm I guess.
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Old 2009-12-20, 00:04   Link #539
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I think you're absolutely right about the differences in demographics, which ties back into something that has been previously discussed more times than I can afford to count (the time slot change and the subsequent pressure to increase ratings, which was ultimately unnecessary since the show got mediocre TV numbers all across the board but, like the previous season had accomplished, still had good DVD and BD sales).

That's not to say there was no overlap, no, but trying to serve several masters is usually a bad idea and upsets an already fragile balance. I can't pretend to have no disappointments, regrets or complaints.

I suppose you can say my own position is based on the idea of not throwing out the baby with the bath water. I think the basic framework of the plot works, it just was executed too sloppily and with less attention to detail.

That might not sound like much, but more exposition and less of a rush would have done wonders. That's one of the reasons why I think it was a mistake to force the entire Zero Requiem arc into the last 4 episodes of the season. Such a radical scenario, whether one likes it or not, would have worked better as a movie instead of something tacked on at the end. Without that element, those episodes could have been used to expand on other issues and characters or even to add tactical / strategic complexity to some of the mecha battles.

Adding the director's natural inclination for not spelling things out to a second season that was already rushed and compressed is what leaves us with a less than optimal result and many incomplete answers, yes, but I have to accept R2 as canonical. ZZ is still part of the Gundam canon after all, as much as some would prefer otherwise.

On the other hand...if there ever was a remake or movie / OVA adaptation that restored some of the lost balance, whether through an AU or a sequel / prequel, that would be great. As long as the franchise is commercially viable, I think we'll get something better or at least different in due time.
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Old 2009-12-20, 02:09   Link #540
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