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Old 2009-12-17, 09:05   Link #5081
ZephyrLeanne
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Hanging would have been cheaper. Shooting is a privilege.
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Old 2009-12-17, 10:38   Link #5082
SaintessHeart
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Originally Posted by ShimatheKat View Post
Hanging would have been cheaper. Shooting is a privilege.
Execution by shooting is usually done by firing a expanding hollow-point bullet into the head. It costs 70 cents to make a bullet like this (a regular 5.56 x 45mm, I heard, costs 45 cents). Fired from a China made Type 76, it would cost $1200.

The entire hanging platform costs $27,000 to build, and a fresh rope is used for every victim. The platform can last for around a few hundred thousand victims.

It really depends on how many people you are killing actually. I would say beheading is still the cheapest, a meat cleaver costs $14 last time I went to the supermarket.
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Old 2009-12-17, 12:27   Link #5083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Execution by shooting is usually done by firing a expanding hollow-point bullet into the head. It costs 70 cents to make a bullet like this (a regular 5.56 x 45mm, I heard, costs 45 cents). Fired from a China made Type 76, it would cost $1200.

The entire hanging platform costs $27,000 to build, and a fresh rope is used for every victim. The platform can last for around a few hundred thousand victims.

It really depends on how many people you are killing actually. I would say beheading is still the cheapest, a meat cleaver costs $14 last time I went to the supermarket.
27k? must be a military contract.

the kind of blades use in beheading is usually a large Ax or a chinese Dao. A well made one probably cost 500-700 hundred dollars.
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Old 2009-12-17, 13:32   Link #5084
Vexx
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Aye, a meat cleaver won't do it.... unless you're planning on making the execution exceptionally painful. You want to be able to disconnect the nervous system in one blow -- that also means slicing between the vertebrae because even a large axe or dao will bounce off one of those.

Ah, medieval studies..... :P

And often.. execution by shooting is done in most countries by a group with heavy hunting rifles and aimed at the heart. One of the group is issued a blank (for traditional reasons). The internal shock waves in the body from several ultra-high velocity slugs almost always kill instantly (even before the tearing damage takes effect).

Ah, hunting theory... :P
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Old 2009-12-17, 13:39   Link #5085
Xellos-_^
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Aye, a meat cleaver won't do it.... unless you're planning on making the execution exceptionally painful. You want to be able to disconnect the nervous system in one blow -- that also means slicing between the vertebrae because even a large axe or dao will bounce off one of those.

Ah, medieval studies..... :P

And often.. execution by shooting is done in most countries by a group with heavy hunting rifles and aimed at the heart. One of the group is issued a blank (for traditional reasons). The internal shock waves in the body from several ultra-high velocity slugs almost always kill instantly (even before the tearing damage takes effect).

Ah, hunting theory... :P
there is always the African method tying someone down near a anthill and slather his B*lls with honey.
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Old 2009-12-17, 13:40   Link #5086
Vexx
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nonono... painLESS. If you want a lot of pain, there are some horribly excruciating methods I won't print here in this forum --- especially for dealing with witches....
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Old 2009-12-17, 13:45   Link #5087
Xellos-_^
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
nonono... painLESS. If you want a lot of pain, there are some horribly excruciating methods I won't print here in this forum --- especially for dealing with witches....
ah you want painless.

the gas chamber is probably the most painless method i can think of.

although it is defintly not cheap.

for cheap and painless, maybe some sort of poison.
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Old 2009-12-17, 14:02   Link #5088
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Execution by shooting is usually done by firing a expanding hollow-point bullet into the head. It costs 70 cents to make a bullet like this (a regular 5.56 x 45mm, I heard, costs 45 cents). Fired from a China made Type 76, it would cost $1200.

The entire hanging platform costs $27,000 to build, and a fresh rope is used for every victim. The platform can last for around a few hundred thousand victims.

It really depends on how many people you are killing actually. I would say beheading is still the cheapest, a meat cleaver costs $14 last time I went to the supermarket.
I'd sell his organs and try to make a buck.
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Old 2009-12-17, 14:11   Link #5089
mg1942
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US Drone Predator HACKED!

Quote:
Insurgents Hack U.S. Drones
$26 Software Is Used to Breach Key Weapons in Iraq; Iranian Backing Suspected


By SIOBHAN GORMAN, YOCHI J. DREAZEN and AUGUST COLE

WASHINGTON -- Militants in Iraq have used $26 off-the-shelf software to intercept live video feeds from U.S. Predator drones, potentially providing them with information they need to evade or monitor U.S. military operations.

Senior defense and intelligence officials said Iranian-backed insurgents intercepted the video feeds by taking advantage of an unprotected communications link in some of the remotely flown planes' systems. Shiite fighters in Iraq used software programs such as SkyGrabber -- available for as little as $25.95 on the Internet -- to regularly capture drone video feeds, according to a person familiar with reports on the matter.

U.S. officials say there is no evidence that militants were able to take control of the drones or otherwise interfere with their flights. Still, the intercepts could give America's enemies battlefield advantages by removing the element of surprise from certain missions and making it easier for insurgents to determine which roads and buildings are under U.S. surveillance.

The drone intercepts mark the emergence of a shadow cyber war within the U.S.-led conflicts overseas. They also point to a potentially serious vulnerability in Washington's growing network of unmanned drones, which have become the American weapon of choice in both Afghanistan and Pakistan.

The Obama administration has come to rely heavily on the unmanned drones because they allow the U.S. to safely monitor and stalk insurgent targets in areas where sending American troops would be either politically untenable or too risky.

The stolen video feeds also indicate that U.S. adversaries continue to find simple ways of counteracting sophisticated American military technologies.

U.S. military personnel in Iraq discovered the problem late last year when they apprehended a Shiite militant whose laptop contained files of intercepted drone video feeds. In July, the U.S. military found pirated drone video feeds on other militant laptops, leading some officials to conclude that militant groups trained and funded by Iran were regularly intercepting feeds.

In the summer 2009 incident, the military found "days and days and hours and hours of proof" that the feeds were being intercepted and shared with multiple extremist groups, the person said. "It is part of their kit now."

A senior defense official said that James Clapper, the Pentagon's intelligence chief, assessed the Iraq intercepts at the direction of Defense Secretary Robert Gates and concluded they represented a shortcoming to the security of the drone network.

"There did appear to be a vulnerability," the defense official said. "There's been no harm done to troops or missions compromised as a result of it, but there's an issue that we can take care of and we're doing so."

Senior military and intelligence officials said the U.S. was working to encrypt all of its drone video feeds from Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan, but said it wasn't yet clear if the problem had been completely resolved.

Some of the most detailed evidence of intercepted feeds has been discovered in Iraq, but adversaries have also intercepted drone video feeds in Afghanistan, according to people briefed on the matter. These intercept techniques could be employed in other locations where the U.S. is using pilotless planes, such as Pakistan, Yemen and Somalia, they said.

The Pentagon is deploying record numbers of drones to Afghanistan as part of the Obama administration's troop surge there. Lt. Gen. David Deptula, who oversees the Air Force's unmanned aviation program, said some of the drones would employ a sophisticated new camera system called "Gorgon Stare," which allows a single aerial vehicle to transmit back at least 10 separate video feeds simultaneously.

Gen. Deptula, speaking to reporters Wednesday, said there were inherent risks to using drones since they are remotely controlled and need to send and receive video and other data over great distances. "Those kinds of things are subject to listening and exploitation," he said, adding the military was trying to solve the problems by better encrypting the drones' feeds.

The potential drone vulnerability lies in an unencrypted downlink between the unmanned craft and ground control. The U.S. government has known about the flaw since the U.S. campaign in Bosnia in the 1990s, current and former officials said. But the Pentagon assumed local adversaries wouldn't know how to exploit it, the officials said.

Last December, U.S. military personnel in Iraq discovered copies of Predator drone feeds on a laptop belonging to a Shiite militant, according to a person familiar with reports on the matter. "There was evidence this was not a one-time deal," this person said. The U.S. accuses Iran of providing weapons, money and training to Shiite fighters in Iraq, a charge that Tehran has long denied.

The militants use programs such as SkyGrabber, from Russian company SkySoftware. Andrew Solonikov, one of the software's developers, said he was unaware that his software could be used to intercept drone feeds. "It was developed to intercept music, photos, video, programs and other content that other users download from the Internet -- no military data or other commercial data, only free legal content," he said by email from Russia.

Officials stepped up efforts to prevent insurgents from intercepting video feeds after the July incident. The difficulty, officials said, is that adding encryption to a network that is more than a decade old involves more than placing a new piece of equipment on individual drones. Instead, many components of the network linking the drones to their operators in the U.S., Afghanistan or Pakistan have to be upgraded to handle the changes. Additional concerns remain about the vulnerability of the communications signals to electronic jamming, though there's no evidence that has occurred, said people familiar with reports on the matter.

Predator drones are built by General Atomics Aeronautical Systems Inc. of San Diego. Some of its communications technology is proprietary, so widely used encryption systems aren't readily compatible, said people familiar with the matter.

In an email, a spokeswoman said that for security reasons, the company couldn't comment on "specific data link capabilities and limitations."

Fixing the security gap would have caused delays, according to current and former military officials. It would have added to the Predator's price. Some officials worried that adding encryption would make it harder to quickly share time-sensitive data within the U.S. military, and with allies.

"There's a balance between pragmatics and sophistication," said Mike Wynne, Air Force Secretary from 2005 to 2008.

The Air Force has staked its future on unmanned aerial vehicles. Drones account for 36% of the planes in the service's proposed 2010 budget.

Today, the Air Force is buying hundreds of Reaper drones, a newer model, whose video feeds could be intercepted in much the same way as with the Predators, according to people familiar with the matter. A Reaper costs between $10 million and $12 million each and is faster and better armed than the Predator. General Atomics expects the Air Force to buy as many as 375 Reapers.

I think this is why a heavy reliance on unmanned aircraft is a bad idea.

and...

Now if I were the bad guys and some of my operatives got whacked by a US missile or bomb that was targeted via some mechanism that tracked the downloading of UAV video, I'd use that to my advantage.

Like I'd hide an active downloading mechanism in a nursery school or something... another scenario is put the transmitter in a hospital or day care center, a large hotel.... which means you'd have to use eyes and weapons on the ground, probably an hour or two, and in the meantime they've done their damage, dismantled everything and move on....

Last edited by mg1942; 2009-12-17 at 15:21.
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Old 2009-12-17, 14:55   Link #5090
hinakatbklyn
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I'm not certain, but the enemies these days would use underhanded tactics such as a nursery school to hide fighters or equipment. If this did happen and we know where it is what would we do to stop it?

Would we go into enemy territory and manually get rid of it (putting us or allies in danger) or since the enemy uses innocents as shields like in WW 2, use the same approach and take out anyone or anything that got in the way enemy or innocent. I shouldn't even think of such a thing (I would have no conscience). Then again, very few go into war with a conscience. Just end the war as soon as possible with minimal casualties.

(I may have stepped on a few toes, but it happens in war).
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Old 2009-12-17, 14:58   Link #5091
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mg1942 View Post
US Drone Predator HACKED!




I think this is why a heavy reliance on unmanned aircraft is a bad idea.
I don't see how using a manned plane would have made a difference there. They intercepted transmissions between the aircraft and its controllers - that means the protocol itself is faulty, but it has nothing to do with the piloting. If they'd used a manned plane and the same protocol, the result would have been the same. It's like, say, someone intercepting a call you make on your cell. It doesn't matter if you're in a manned or in an automatic subway train.

Quote:
and...

Now if I were the bad guys and some of my operatives got whacked by a US missile or bomb that was targeted via some mechanism that tracked the downloading of UAV video, I'd use that to my advantage.

Like I'd hide an active downloading mechanism in a nursery school or something...
All they did was intercept the feed. They didn't alter it, so they couldn't have messed with the targeting. All they could have done is run like hell if they saw the drone looking at the building they were in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hinakatbklyn View Post
I'm not certain, but the enemies these days would use underhanded tactics such as a nursery school to hide fighters or equipment. If this did happen and we know where it is what would we do to stop it?

Would we go into enemy territory and manually get rid of it (putting us or allies in danger) or since the enemy uses innocents as shields like in WW 2, use the same approach and take out anyone or anything that got in the way enemy or innocent. I shouldn't even think of such a thing (I would have no conscience). Then again, very few go into war with a conscience. Just end the war as soon as possible with minimal casualties.

(I may have stepped on a few toes, but it happens in war).
I'm sure there are psychopaths in the military, just as in any professions, but they don't make up the majority of it. Battlefields aren't corporate boardrooms.
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Old 2009-12-17, 15:44   Link #5092
mg1942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
I don't see how using a manned plane would have made a difference there. They intercepted transmissions between the aircraft and its controllers - that means the protocol itself is faulty, but it has nothing to do with the piloting. If they'd used a manned plane and the same protocol, the result would have been the same. It's like, say, someone intercepting a call you make on your cell. It doesn't matter if you're in a manned or in an automatic subway train.
A manned aircraft wouldn't have to send video feeds to it's controller. It's controller is already in the cockpit and seeing things in real time.

Last edited by mg1942; 2009-12-17 at 16:03.
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Old 2009-12-17, 17:17   Link #5093
justsomeguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mg1942 View Post
A manned aircraft wouldn't have to send video feeds to it's controller. It's controller is already in the cockpit and seeing things in real time.
"A picture is worth a thousand words." In this case, real-time video is more valuable and accurate than a cameraman sitting in the plane trying to describe everything he sees. The problem is with shitty encryption, not with the concept of drones streaming video.
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Old 2009-12-17, 17:41   Link #5094
mg1942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justsomeguy View Post
"A picture is worth a thousand words." In this case, real-time video is more valuable and accurate than a cameraman sitting in the plane trying to describe everything he sees. The problem is with shitty encryption, not with the concept of drones streaming video.
In this case, there was no shitty encryption, there wasn't any encryption at all for the video feed.
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Old 2009-12-17, 17:47   Link #5095
mg1942
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From what little I know about the Predators, all flight command data is encrypted and either goes over a satellite network or UHF for local terminal control. Primary video feeds are also sent out via satellite link, but they are also transmitted out on unsecured links for local commanders on the ground to use. The reasoning behind that was because if the signal was encrypted, then every ground unit, right down to individual infantry squads and special forces units out in the boonies would have to carry additional encryption equipment as well as the daily codes needed to intercept the feed. That's not really the kind of information you want floating around on the battlefield, so they use an unsecured feed that anyone can tap into, but it is receive only. There is no unsecured uplink into the system.

If they do try and secure that feed, they will have to provide codes and equipment to every ground force that uses it.
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Old 2009-12-17, 17:57   Link #5096
Tiberium Wolf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
I'd sell his organs and try to make a buck.
I think China doing that already.



Anyway I remembered George Carlin 1996 "Back in Town" show.

He suggested crucifixion, beheadings (in TV, in slow motion, instant replay), boiling ppl in oil and others.

And since we ppl these days is lacking money we should do like George said... market it well to get money. Like he said use capital punishment like ppl in the US use TV and sports to distract ppl.

The other idea that had me laughing is his idea of making an entire state into a prison farm with a 10 story electric fence and let the prisoners deal with themselves while broadcasting it in a cable tv. He need 4 states for 4 kinds of criminals
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Old 2009-12-17, 18:13   Link #5097
CMHerrera
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I don't know if this has been posted but its interesting..

Quote:

"2 Oklahoma Students to Be Disciplined for 'Death Note'

The Oklahoma City Friday newspaper reports on Thursday that two students from Andrew Johnson Elementary School are to be disciplined for a notebook that is described as a "'Death Note,' which is in reference to a movie." The notebook has two pages with writing that referred to two other students: "Kill (student's name) by gun shotgunshell in her hand” and “(student's name) shot by a sniper......”


Link - http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...for-death-note
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Old 2009-12-17, 19:04   Link #5098
hinakatbklyn
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That Death Note story was just posted today on another site. The fact that these two students mentioned (most likely) are elementary kids could mean Oklahoma city and other places are jumpy over every small detail about killing or fake killing.

However:

(1) Who knows if the person or persons who had the book with fake death could end up really killing later in life.
(2) Oklahoma City may still not have gotten over the american terrorist bombing back in 1995.

These may be totally different issues, but both involve death (real or fake) and should not be taken lightly.
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Old 2009-12-17, 22:00   Link #5099
ChainLegacy
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Originally Posted by Tiberium Wolf View Post
And since we ppl these days is lacking money we should do like George said... market it well to get money. Like he said use capital punishment like ppl in the US use TV and sports to distract ppl.
TV, sports, video games, and the like, hate them or love them are pretty much the evolved versions of these bloodsports and Colosseum style games of the past. And like you and my favorite comedian George Carlin pointed out the purpose is complete distraction.
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Old 2009-12-17, 22:43   Link #5100
ZephyrLeanne
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Quote:

Minister says burqa-style veils impede citizenship


By ELAINE GANLEY (AP) – 1 day ago

PARIS — France's immigration minister said Wednesday that he wants the wearing of Muslim veils that cover the face and body to be grounds for denying citizenship and long-term residence.

Eric Besson said he planned to take "concrete measures" regarding such veils, which are worn by a small minority of women in France but have become the object of a parliamentary inquiry into whether a ban should be imposed.

Besson spoke during a hearing before the panel of lawmakers as their nearly six-month inquiry draws to a close.

Besson said he believed a formal ban on veils that cover the face and body seemed to him "unavoidable," with a ban in public services as a minimum step.

Whether such veils are banned or not, he said he intends to personally move forward to ensure that women wearing such veils and seeking French nationality or residence cards are denied.

"I want the wearing of the full veil to be systematically considered as proof of insufficient integration into French society, creating an obstacle to gaining (French) nationality," he said.

He said he would advise prefects, the highest state representative in the various French regions, that the wearing of such veils is a motive for not delivering 10-year residence cards.

Besson said he was prepared to put the measures before parliament to make them law. In November, Besson ordered a nationwide debate on the French identity, to conclude by the end of January with possible measures.

Conservative President Nicolas Sarkozy is the force behind both the national identity campaign and the targeting of full-body veils, which he has said are not "welcome." Critics claim he is playing to traditional far-right fears of immigration, particularly by Muslims.

There is concern that some immigrants and citizens, including members of its Muslim population — at some 5 million the largest in western Europe — are failing to fully integrate and even defying the nation's secular values. A law was passed in 2004 banning Muslim headscarves from classrooms.
French government can't stop being racist, huh?
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