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View Poll Results: Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 25 Rating
Perfect 10 30 21.28%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 30 21.28%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 22 15.60%
7 out of 10 : Good 24 17.02%
6 out of 10 : Average 7 4.96%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 4 2.84%
4 out of 10 : Poor 5 3.55%
3 out of 10 : Bad 5 3.55%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 0.71%
1 out of 10 : Painful 13 9.22%
Voters: 141. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-12-17, 21:21   Link #121
Arbane the Terrible
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Originally Posted by CainSonozaki View Post
I dont recall the Captain saying all who knew about kuwadorian besides kinzo and genji in the VN. but here he says that kumasawa knew
It would make sense she knew--she's been around pretty much forever.

Now for a question: From the anti-magic POV, what happened?

- The Stakes' kills looked a lot more like bullet-holes than their usual method of killing. Did Juuzo decide to follow Ange and end up shooting Kasumi and her goons?

- "So you're a human being." Was "Eva-Beatrice" someone other than Eva?

- We never see the mansion. Why? (More support for the "It was destroyed in a disaster" theory.)

Also, does anyone know what the music was that played during the "Stakes kill everyone" scene?

Last edited by Arbane the Terrible; 2009-12-17 at 21:34.
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Old 2009-12-17, 23:30   Link #122
KanonTheFurniture
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Okay, finally finished with final exams and officially on winter break. Checked out the subs...and honestly, not much for me to even review. Let's face it...this episode was perfect. Easily the single best episode of the series so far. However...yeah, I can't really keep my review to this episode without judging how it will affect next week. DEEN trolled us. They know that no one wants to buy their DVD's so they fucking trolled us hard. But...as for THIS episode itself...

Spoiler for short review:

Soooo...yeah. Not a single negative thing to say about the episode. Judging it as an episode it was in all respects totally perfect. However...it's not so easy to rate it just as an episode when we all know what that will entail. And as Klash has said, it's justifiable to rate even a perfect episode with a poor score if there is a factor that caused you to enjoy it less...and for most of us, that's the dread over what it means for the finale next week. In a few months I'm sure I'll be able to look back on this episode - and other parts of the Anime - less judgmentally, as it won't be airing anymore. I'll be able to watch this episode when I replay EP4 and appreciate it for its merits. But right now...no, we still have one episode yet to see, and the entire outcome of this season (especially since I doubt we'll be getting another at this rate) is riding on it.

Barring a miracle - an hour-long episode, or a bonus 27th episode, unlikely though it may be - there is no way it will be done properly. And the sad thing is that it could have been. Perfect? Of course not. But there would have been time for the meat of the scene to come across...I didn't care so much about what red and blue ended up being said (we've lost so much red already, understandably), but the emotion is what I wanted to see conveyed alongside a few key instances of red and blue. And it could have been done...they ruined this on purpose. And that's why I can't judge this episode fairly. We finally got our perfect episode, guys...but the cost was too great, and for that reason, I can't truly appreciate it.

5/10.

Oh, and to everyone who is avoiding the VN for reasons of 'I don't want to pay so I'm trying to find it illegally' and such...seriously. If you enjoyed this series, then you should support the source material. Personally, I got into it via the Manga before the Anime premiered, and like a lot of people I wasn't too keen on the artwork of the VN's. However, when I found out I could play the entirety of EP1 via a free demo, I checked it out and ended up liking it so much that $30 for 4 EPs was more than worth my money. And this was my first visual novel...it was completely uncharted territory for me and I wasn't sure I'd like it, so I understand not wanting to spend money on it. However, if you've watched the Anime this far then you already enjoy the story, and you know you'd be getting much more out of the original. 4 episodes for $30 (unless you buy it somewhere with outrageous shipping)? That's a pretty good deal if you ask me. And you can play the first EP entirely free without resorting to piracy, to see if it's really your kind of thing. I'm not one of those fans who buys a lot of merchandise and I own very few DVD's even (lots of Manga though)...if I can cheat and get stuff for free, I admit I usually do. But I decided this series was worth my support because Ryukishi is a great guy with a lot of talent, and I've paid more for things I've enjoyed a lot less (or just finished really quickly, namely video games).

Really...ask yourself if you really want to miss this opportunity just because you can't find an illegal copy online. The Anime is over next week...I know a lot of Anime-only fans wanted to see it through before checking out the VN. Well, now's the time. I highly encourage those avoiding it for such reasons (though if you have other reasons like utter hatred for the art, don't like visual novels, or just didn't like the series enough to warrant it, that's your call - I just mean the people who do seem interested but would rather not purchase it) to think it over and check it out. Seriously, it's more than worth your time and money. Naturally, that's just my opinion, but hey...if you insist on pirating it? At least be a little more discreet about it around here, alright? [/two cents]
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Old 2009-12-18, 01:43   Link #123
DizzyRoro
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Quote:
-"I saw Kyrie at a party once". Was that in the VN? I don't remember it, but it's also been a few months since I read EP4...
I just took the time to reread from Journey's Endpoint to the end, including tea parties. Yeah, she did talk about seeing Kyrie at a party.

As for my opinions on this episode, I did indeed enjoy it. ...Surprisingly. The last episode made me a bit ticked off, but I'm not one to drop series because of blatant incompetence. I simply want to see this through to the, potentially bitter, end. I admit, the next (and last) episode is going to take a large blow to its pacing thanks to this one. It seems that DEEN's (Or Chiaki Kon's?) priorities lie in places other than having a nice, pleasing and well paced finale. Apparently they're capable of it, seeing as this episode is wonderfully faithful to the text. As noted by someone before, they're putting the emphasis on the wrong part.

Even if I do believe this scene was essential to establishing a more concrete understanding of what 'Magic' is, they certainly could have done a better job in determining which parts should truly be given actual quality emphasis and which parts can be compromised for the sake of the whole.

Both a shame and a gift, I'd say. I shall vote this episode a 7, a more-than-solid episode on its own, but quite possibly the bane of a potentially greater finale.

Here's to hoping the next episode's animation quality is at least great.
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Old 2009-12-18, 02:00   Link #124
AmyElizzabeth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KanonTheFurniture View Post
if you insist on pirating it? At least be a little more discreet about it around here, alright? [/two cents]
If this is aimed at me, I was joking about torrents. I don't even know how to use it
I'll prolly buy the VN if I get some money, considdering we might not get a whole lot on the next episode
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Old 2009-12-18, 03:31   Link #125
mneme
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This episode was fantastic. It was well paced and I enjoyed it.




Now only if this was how EVERY episode had been paced and we had 52 eps of it. WTF why RUSH LIKE A MOFO THROUGH EVERYTHING ELSE, suddenly pause for some angebeating, and then stuff everything in the last ep????!!

IT. DOESNT. MAKE. SENSE. ;A;
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Old 2009-12-18, 04:05   Link #126
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Very good episode. It went down pretty thoroughly on Ange's character and motivations. In any case, I can certain emphasize more with what she is fighting for, and what she is fighting against-- breaking the cycle of displacing pain on others. Kasumi and Eva Beatrice's taunting was merciless, especially at the part where they start ripping at the dictionary and everyone is helpless to stop it.

"Come, Arise, Seven Sisters of Purgatory" I had a feeling she'd eventually get to do something and was waiting for it. The killing was definitely stylish, especially since I haven't seen the stakes in action for a while. Overall, this episode was great in having me root for Ange.

Of course, it goes without saying that devoting the entire episode to this one event is fairly questionable and will have adverse effects on the next episode, so that's definitely a minus. I can understand why that makes the episode worse for many people. But we'll cross the bridge when we get to it. 8/10.

Next episode preview looks great too-- that song is awesome. I can only hope for the best.
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Old 2009-12-18, 05:13   Link #127
Dlanor A. Knox
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Its was kinda cool, but I had the feeling it was really short 0.0
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Old 2009-12-18, 05:14   Link #128
MeoTwister5
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At this point looking through my notes, there is a specific section that if they chop off the majority of it, they can still fit everything else into the finale and still make it stellar.

Probably.
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Old 2009-12-18, 05:16   Link #129
Jan-Poo
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Originally Posted by CainSonozaki View Post
I dont recall the Captain saying all who knew about kuwadorian besides kinzo and genji in the VN. but here he says that kumasawa knew
He said that, and he mentioned Nanjo and other servants as well.
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Old 2009-12-18, 07:26   Link #130
Kite22
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Originally Posted by Maho Momo View Post
What did DEEN say about this? I missed that.
One of DEENs animators said that because DVD sales are so horrible that if they don't really improve then their will not be a second season. Considering how they've treated the series so far? that sounds like good news to me since I cannot see how Episode 5 could make any sense after DEEN has cut out most of Battler and Beatrices interactions. Really it would take a whole re-doing of the Question Arcs in the anime before I could see Chiru working at all.
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Old 2009-12-18, 11:31   Link #131
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Originally Posted by Kite22 View Post
One of DEENs animators said that because DVD sales are so horrible that if they don't really improve then their will not be a second season. Considering how they've treated the series so far? that sounds like good news to me since I cannot see how Episode 5 could make any sense after DEEN has cut out most of Battler and Beatrices interactions. Really it would take a whole re-doing of the Question Arcs in the anime before I could see Chiru working at all.
Ahh I see... well, I can't see Umineko being dropped all together. It's still a popular series with lots of potential, so if Deen can't continue making it I can see another company picking it up. Not sure if they'd redo the first season, but either way would be nice I suppose.
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Old 2009-12-18, 12:12   Link #132
immblueversion
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Ahh I see... well, I can't see Umineko being dropped all together. It's still a popular series with lots of potential, so if Deen can't continue making it I can see another company picking it up. Not sure if they'd redo the first season, but either way would be nice I suppose.
When Higurashi was adapted by DEEN, so much important stuff was cut out that Ryukishi07 forced them to make a special anime arc in the second season containing everything that was left out.

If an Umineko Chiru adaptation is to be made, maybe he'll step in again and do something.

Because while it's not the way many expected, it was admittedly fun for me to see the characters come to life, particularly with the voice talents that I have grown attached to.
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Old 2009-12-18, 12:15   Link #133
momobunny
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Originally Posted by immblueversion View Post
When Higurashi was adapted by DEEN, so much important stuff was cut out that Ryukishi07 forced them to make a special anime arc in the second season containing everything that was left out.

If an Umineko Chiru adaptation is to be made, maybe he'll step in again and do something.

Because while it's not the way many expected, it was admittedly fun for me to see the characters come to life, particularly with the voice talents that I have grown attached to.
Problem with that is, Deen only had to animate Minagoroshi-hen and Matsuribayashi-hen for the second season seeing as they already crammed two Kai arcs into the first season.

I don't think Chiru will end at EP6, so at the very least we'll have 3 arcs. If Ryukishi makes them include another arc to tell more information, the other 3 will probably feel just as crammed as the arcs this season do.
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Old 2009-12-18, 12:20   Link #134
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New user here (although I've been following this particular subforum since UnNkN's anime first launched, at first for the TIPS, and then to read these reviews). Just thought I'd do a bit of speculating/discussion here as I seem to be one of the rare anime only fans, and the first season is quickly coming to a close.

I personally found this episode to be the best in the series, so I was a bit surprised to find it so lowly rated - even those that had genuinely left a bad taste in my mouth weren't as lowly rated as this one was. Still, I guess pacing was always an issue, and it was just a matter of time until VN fans started seriously steaming at it.

On another note, I just thought I'd voice out how unlikely it is for Amakusa to have single handedly slaughtered Kasumi and her goons. Assuming that the anime faithfully displayed wounds dealt to "Ange's victims", all of them were shot from the front - It would be impossible for Amakusa to have killed them in such a way even with a sniper rifle, since they were standing at the edge of a cliff that had a clear view. And even if you don't take into account the direction of their wounds, the goons were all firing simultaneously at Ange - which means that Amakusa would have needed to have fired 3-5 (lethal) shots about 2-3 seconds after the goons took their initial shots (and Ange would have needed to do some lightning-quick dodging) . Lastly, "Eva"'s wounds were caused by a "shotgun" (not taking into account Ange's pistol shot), and Eva herself should have looked like an old hag.

But I suppose there are a few ways this shindig could have worked out from an anti magic POV - if, for instance, there were multiple snipers (Ushiromiya goons, Amakusa's friends, mysterious natives living on the island, etc. Although this still doesn't explain the direction of the wounds). "Eva"'s shotgun could simply have malfunctioned and blew through the wrong end. And Eva herself might be a delusion that Ange conjured up because she was delirious.
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Old 2009-12-18, 12:31   Link #135
Ronove
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On referring to Anti-Magic (does that mean we don't believe in magic?), does Ange die in 1998?

Did what is "Beato" kill everyone? We can assume that these bullet-like deaths aren't realy bullets; just a metaphorical way of how they died.
Didn't the researchers of 1998 (the Witch Hunt) tries to decipher things through Magical Elements? This story could've been their translations on the massacre.
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Old 2009-12-18, 12:55   Link #136
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So worried about the last episode but hey maybe a miracle will happen
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Old 2009-12-18, 13:16   Link #137
immblueversion
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Problem with that is, Deen only had to animate Minagoroshi-hen and Matsuribayashi-hen for the second season seeing as they already crammed two Kai arcs into the first season.

I don't think Chiru will end at EP6, so at the very least we'll have 3 arcs. If Ryukishi makes them include another arc to tell more information, the other 3 will probably feel just as crammed as the arcs this season do.
Unless they split Chiru into two more parts, or order more episodes.

Or if they make the theorized extra arc an OVA instead.
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Old 2009-12-18, 13:56   Link #138
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On another note, I just thought I'd voice out how unlikely it is for Amakusa to have single handedly slaughtered Kasumi and her goons. Assuming that the anime faithfully displayed wounds dealt to "Ange's victims", all of them were shot from the front - It would be impossible for Amakusa to have killed them in such a way even with a sniper rifle, since they were standing at the edge of a cliff that had a clear view. And even if you don't take into account the direction of their wounds, the goons were all firing simultaneously at Ange - which means that Amakusa would have needed to have fired 3-5 (lethal) shots about 2-3 seconds after the goons took their initial shots (and Ange would have needed to do some lightning-quick dodging) . Lastly, "Eva"'s wounds were caused by a "shotgun" (not taking into account Ange's pistol shot), and Eva herself should have looked like an old hag.

But I suppose there are a few ways this shindig could have worked out from an anti magic POV - if, for instance, there were multiple snipers (Ushiromiya goons, Amakusa's friends, mysterious natives living on the island, etc. Although this still doesn't explain the direction of the wounds). "Eva"'s shotgun could simply have malfunctioned and blew through the wrong end. And Eva herself might be a delusion that Ange conjured up because she was delirious.
That was one scene thats exactly like the usual murder you see~

first, did they really fire at Ange at the same time? Or did they have the chance to fire at all? On what basis are you going to believe they all fire simultaneously at Ange when you dont trust the magic scenes there?

second, Eva died already at that point, there was no Eva anymore~ So, was Eva there? Did her shotgun malfunction?

2 parties were there, Ange's and Kasumi's. One died the other believed it was magic. Now you should be able to find out what is to be trusted and whatnot, that was the important very first step in the show after all~
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Old 2009-12-18, 15:15   Link #139
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Hmm, well, Ange was beaten to an inch away from death, so she might not be seeing things right. After all, "magic" seems to happen more when people are closer to death, drunk, or otherwise unstable. Perhaps, it's what they want to see?
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Old 2009-12-18, 16:51   Link #140
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I havent played the VN so I cant compare it to that.. For me this episode was finally some understanding of the cute redhead that gets picked on and beats up goats. With the anime veiwers we havent had that much on Ange to even find a reason to like her.. I dont mind sacrificing an episode to see a character that seems to be so important to the series.

And on top of all that fun I got to see my favorite Redhead of the series having some fun...

Im not really looking forward to next week since that will be the end
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