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Old 2009-12-19, 11:27   Link #61
momobunny
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Speaking of "Original Beatrice"...

Spoiler for EP3-EP4:


It does make me wonder just who the original Beatrice was.

I could be and probably am completely off. My bad memory makes it hard for me to recall the facts throughout each episode, so please feel free to step in and correct or add some things.
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Old 2009-12-19, 11:57   Link #62
KanonTheFurniture
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I had a thought about Kumasawa as Kinzo's original Beatrice recently, comparing it to one of the early filler episodes of the first FullMetal Alchemist series.

Spoiler for :
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Old 2009-12-19, 12:03   Link #63
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Originally Posted by KanonTheFurniture View Post
I had a thought about Kumasawa as Kinzo's original Beatrice recently, comparing it to one of the early filler episodes of the first FullMetal Alchemist series.

Spoiler for :
I actually came up with the exact same theory myself some time ago and I still believe it.
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Old 2009-12-19, 12:19   Link #64
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It isn't that bad of a theory, it could be as you say. However I believe that the portrait is recent and it either depicts the 1967 Beatrice or suit Beatrice.

BTW since you made a comparison with FMA, let me make another kind of comparison: "Citizen Kane".

Spoiler for Very big spoiler about Citizen Kane, it's a very great movie, if you haven't seen it, remedy that asap and only then open this spoiler tag:
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Old 2009-12-19, 12:28   Link #65
CainSonozaki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maho Momo View Post
Speaking of "Original Beatrice"...

Spoiler for EP3-EP4:


It does make me wonder just who the original Beatrice was.

I could be and probably am completely off. My bad memory makes it hard for me to recall the facts throughout each episode, so please feel free to step in and correct or add some things.
Spoiler for Original Beatrice:
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Old 2009-12-19, 18:32   Link #66
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Originally Posted by CainSonozaki View Post
Spoiler for Original Beatrice:
It was actually from the EP 3 TIPs about the succession of an endless/golden witch - it stated that Virgilia started the tradition and gave the name Beatrice to her successor (our Beato). Before that all the other endless witches kept their own name.
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Old 2009-12-19, 22:51   Link #67
Arbane the Terrible
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maho Momo View Post
Speaking of "Original Beatrice"...

Spoiler for EP3-EP4:


It does make me wonder just who the original Beatrice was.
Let's see... the most convincing theory I've heard yet is that there were/are three real-world women referred to as "Beatrice".

The first is the woman Kinzo met and who somehow gave him the treasure of gold. That would have been in the last days of WWII, I think someone said.[citation needed]

The second was "captive-Beatrice", the girl Rosa met in Kuwadorian. I believe she was supposed to be in her 20s when she died.

The third, of course, is "suit-Beatrice", the one currently causing trouble in Rokkenjima.

I suspect they're related (as in, each is the daughter of the previous one), but that's speculation.
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Old 2009-12-20, 03:27   Link #68
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I'm still wondering about the Meta-Beatrice Piece-Beatrice interaction in EP4. That was really odd.

As for piece Beatrice, I still remember a quote from Ronove in which he said: "That is why furniture is so frightening. Sometimes they even become witches, and treat demons as butlers." Beatrice also tends to refer to herself as the Ushiromiya family's furniture. So, perhaps, she used to have that kind of role before she inherited the title of Beatrice?
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Old 2009-12-20, 06:18   Link #69
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The complicate things further, it's been a while since I've been thinking that there might be two different persons impersonating Beatrice in the gameboard or maybe even three.
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Old 2009-12-20, 10:03   Link #70
KanonTheFurniture
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Used Can View Post
I'm still wondering about the Meta-Beatrice Piece-Beatrice interaction in EP4. That was really odd.

As for piece Beatrice, I still remember a quote from Ronove in which he said: "That is why furniture is so frightening. Sometimes they even become witches, and treat demons as butlers." Beatrice also tends to refer to herself as the Ushiromiya family's furniture. So, perhaps, she used to have that kind of role before she inherited the title of Beatrice?
I think it ties in with how she abuses Shannon (and to a lesser extent Kanon) for seeking love despite being furniture. At the end of EP2, when Shannon makes her go off the deep end, she starts going on about how she can't wait until the day George looks at her full of lust, and she makes light of love at any chance possible, as though she were abused and had her own hopes of love trampled. It's very likely that Kinzo kept her as furniture and mistreated her, completely warping her views on the world...you know, before she became a 'witch'.

Spoiler for screenshots:

Yeeeeeeeeah...
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Old 2009-12-20, 15:16   Link #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KanonTheFurniture View Post
Spoiler for screenshots:
What the...
Did I miss something? *shoots self*
I think that just proves your statement..
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Old 2009-12-20, 15:42   Link #72
Used Can
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Originally Posted by KanonTheFurniture View Post
It's very likely that Kinzo kept her as furniture and mistreated her, completely warping her views on the world...you know, before she became a 'witch'.
I'd normally disagree with that, since Kinzo seems to love Beatrice the most, but well, taking into account he has some sort of torture chamber in Kuwadorian, I wonder about that, sometimes.
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Old 2009-12-20, 16:49   Link #73
Arbane the Terrible
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
The complicate things further, it's been a while since I've been thinking that there might be two different persons impersonating Beatrice in the gameboard or maybe even three.
Makes perfect sense--I'm reasonably sure there's multiple murderers, why not multiple "Beatrice"s?
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Old 2009-12-20, 21:18   Link #74
imaginari
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Originally Posted by AmyElizzabeth View Post
What the...
Did I miss something? *shoots self*
I think that just proves your statement..
Drunk Suitrice is WTFness.
I'm also surprised that so few speculations tie into that exchange, although I see how it can be... difficult to make any sense of.
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Old 2009-12-20, 21:27   Link #75
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The fact that she mentions Kinzo in his younger days makes me think she's giving voice to the original Beatrice. This would not be the first time that Suit Beatrice does that since in Ep2 she says that she hasn't met Kinzo for the last 30 years which is more or less the amount of time that passed since the original Beatrice's death.

Why is Suit-Beatrice who is supposedly the third one and only about 20 years old talking as if she's the original Beatrice who was supposed to be already an adult in 1945? And why is she skipping the Beatrice of 1967?

Is it a case of fake personality? She believes to be that Beatrice? That's probably it, or she's pretending that. Anyway it looks like she knows well what kind of relationship the original Beatrice had with Kinzo.
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Old 2009-12-20, 21:37   Link #76
Arbane the Terrible
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Originally Posted by KanonTheFurniture View Post
I think it ties in with how she abuses Shannon (and to a lesser extent Kanon) for seeking love despite being furniture. At the end of EP2, when Shannon makes her go off the deep end, she starts going on about how she can't wait until the day George looks at her full of lust, and she makes light of love at any chance possible, as though she were abused and had her own hopes of love trampled. It's very likely that Kinzo kept her as furniture and mistreated her, completely warping her views on the world...you know, before she became a 'witch'.

Spoiler for screenshots:

Yeeeeeeeeah...
Well, THAT's messed up. Is that from EP4?
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Old 2009-12-20, 21:48   Link #77
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yes it's from Ep4
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Old 2009-12-20, 21:49   Link #78
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Originally Posted by Arbane the Terrible View Post
Well, THAT's messed up. Is that from EP4?
Yeah.

Spoiler for EP4:
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Old 2009-12-22, 01:31   Link #79
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Well, I would believe that Kumasawa would be the original Beatrice, except for the fact that she dies in every game and that after every game Beatrice is supposed to revive.
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Old 2009-12-22, 07:25   Link #80
Geekodot
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Originally Posted by ErenselTheJester View Post
Well, I would believe that Kumasawa would be the original Beatrice, except for the fact that she dies in every game and that after every game Beatrice is supposed to revive.
What is the requirement of a resurrection? You need to be dead in order to be resurrected.
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