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Old 2009-12-10, 04:37   Link #201
Shiroth
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Originally Posted by Ansalem View Post
they changed what Protoculture was
& personally, i'd call that butchered.
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Old 2009-12-10, 05:43   Link #202
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Originally Posted by Shiroth View Post
& personally, i'd call that butchered.
Me too. I had a hard time understanding the DYRL movie, when it came out as a VHS tape here, because I just couldn't freaking understand what they were talking about... wasn't protoculture a fuel of some sort?
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Old 2009-12-10, 05:54   Link #203
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Originally Posted by Shiroth View Post
& personally, i'd call that butchered.
It sounds more of a big deal than I think it really is, since it didn't really affect the story that much. They didn't change anything about culture defeating the Zentradi, and I don't really remember anything different about the relation of origins between Zentradi and humans, they just added an energy force and called that protoculture instead. It's been about 12 years or so since I watched Robotech as opposed to Macross, so I'm a bit hazy.

I think it would have been better if they had been able to just translate Macross and show that on American TV, but considering the time and circumstances, that never would have happened. So, I suppose I'm just saying, it could have been worse, and Robotech did help with the creation of the anime market in the West, so I can't be too hard on it. Anyway, I made most of my points in the other post so I'll just leave it at that.
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Old 2009-12-10, 06:12   Link #204
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I think it would have been better if they had been able to just translate Macross and show that on American TV, but considering the time and circumstances, that never would have happened. So, I suppose I'm just saying, it could have been worse, and Robotech did help with the creation of the anime market in the West, so I can't be too hard on it. Anyway, I made most of my points in the other post so I'll just leave it at that.
& i'd rather have had nothing then Robotech.

Sure it's thanks to it that so many people know what the Macross franchise is, though especially today, it's destroying the Macross name. That's the way i see it.
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Old 2009-12-10, 06:15   Link #205
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Sure it's thanks to it that so many people know what the Macross franchise is, though especially today, it's destroying the Macross name. That's the way i see it.
If you mean the licensing monkey wrenches that Harmony Gold has been causing since then, I'll certainly agree we could do without that.
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Old 2009-12-10, 09:14   Link #206
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& i'd rather have had nothing then Robotech.

Sure it's thanks to it that so many people know what the Macross franchise is, though especially today, it's destroying the Macross name. That's the way i see it.
It certainly is a constant pain as far as bringing Macross the the wider world. Same with some aspects of BattleTech.

It is of course difficult to hypothesize how and if Macross would have been brought over to the US and other countries without Robotech being a vanguard of Japanese animation.
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Old 2009-12-21, 15:03   Link #207
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It certainly is a constant pain as far as bringing Macross the the wider world. Same with some aspects of BattleTech.

It is of course difficult to hypothesize how and if Macross would have been brought over to the US and other countries without Robotech being a vanguard of Japanese animation.
Good point. I wonder about that myself. Given the massive quantity of giant robot anime that exists I wonder if it would have become as popular as it did without Robotech. But who knows? Maybe it would have on it's own merits.

Even though I grew up on Robotech, watching Macross was like a giant light bulb going off in my head. As much as I loved RT as a kid I still never quite got it. But, as someone said earlier I thought the non-Minmei music was much better in RT in my opinion. Too bad I don't watch anime for the music (except for Cowboy Bebop)
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Old 2009-12-21, 18:12   Link #208
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Let us be honest here, which part of the three series that composed Robotech do you remember the most? Most people would probably think Macross.

The success of Robotech therefore, was highly dependent on the quality of the original show, that again, being the quality of Macross itself. Nor was Robotech altered so drastically as to differ significantly from the original. For the most part, Robotech exists as nothing more than a dubbed work of its original source material, simple as that. Therefore, did we need Robotech as a 'vanguard' of Japanese animation in order to bring the good that is in Macross? Probably not.

Macross could have arrived overseas as a complete piece of work by itself. In fact, I'd argue that if Macross had not been forced into an alleged new series, it would have spared us the confusion that many are having today. Would that contribute to Macross' already massive popularity? Most likely.

- Tak
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Old 2009-12-21, 18:38   Link #209
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One factor which I think should be mentioned is that Robotech had to tack on the other two series because it needed the number to get to syndication.

I'm not exactly an expert on what syndication means for viewing availablilty, maybe if Macross/Robotech hadn't been syndicated, it would not have had large numbers of viewers anyway?
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Old 2009-12-21, 19:53   Link #210
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Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
I'm not exactly an expert on what syndication means for viewing availablilty, maybe if Macross/Robotech hadn't been syndicated, it would not have had large numbers of viewers anyway?
Its an American thing really, and less common for the rest of the world. In a nutshell, its to broadcast a program without going through a broadcasting network. It was pretty much a way to skip the process of negotiating with multiple networks.

There are a lot of exceptions depending on the program and stations. However, when Robotech was being broadcast, it was required the program to possess a number of episodes as a minimum before it could be aired.

Though as it turns out, perhaps the combination of three separate series into making Robotech was perhaps unnecessary. We will never know what would happen if Macross was broadcast by itself, but I doubt it would change its popularity. Certainly it was an overwhelming success in Japan and the rest of East Asia. The other series on the other hand, are nearly forgotten.

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Old 2009-12-21, 20:35   Link #211
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Its an American thing really, and less common for the rest of the world. In a nutshell, its to broadcast a program without going through a broadcasting network. It was pretty much a way to skip the process of negotiating with multiple networks.

There are a lot of exceptions depending on the program and stations. However, when Robotech was being broadcast, it was required the program to possess a number of episodes as a minimum before it could be aired.

Though as it turns out, perhaps the combination of three separate series into making Robotech was perhaps unnecessary. We will never know what would happen if Macross was broadcast by itself, but I doubt it would change its popularity. Certainly it was an overwhelming success in Japan and the rest of East Asia. The other series on the other hand, are nearly forgotten.

- Tak
Well, I am taking it more in the context of anime becoming popular in the West. Certainly Macross would have been huge in the east and continued to have just the impact it had there, but, as far as I know, Robotech was the first glimpse western audiences had at a real anime series. I could be wrong, what I know in that regard is half-remembered write-ups which very well could have come from biased Robotech fans.
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Old 2009-12-22, 00:52   Link #212
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Well, I am taking it more in the context of anime becoming popular in the West. Certainly Macross would have been huge in the east and continued to have just the impact it had there, but, as far as I know, Robotech was the first glimpse western audiences had at a real anime series. I could be wrong, what I know in that regard is half-remembered write-ups which very well could have come from biased Robotech fans.
Astroboy, Speed Racer, Starblazers, Mazinger-Z, G-Force, Voltron, Thundersub...

No it isn't.

There was already an anime fandom back then. Through this community Carl Macek got wind of this hit series called Macross.

Originally the plan was Macross to be a parody of Gundam. Studio Nue was made up of a bunch of Gundam fanboys. Fortunately they scraped the initial plan and did their own thing. With Shoji Kawamori (under a pseudonym as he was still a high school student) and Haruhiko Mikimoto leading the mechanical designs, Haruhiko Mikimoto on the character designs and Hiroshi Ohnogi on the story, with also Ichiro Itano on the visual effects and animation.

Big West, an advertisement company, as we know funded the show. Thus the IP rights belongs to them and Studio Nue.

Macross was slated to be 27 episodes. More episodes were ordered when Big West brought in Tatsunoko to help fund the show to 36 episodes.

As for the show itself Macross in my opinion had elements of the original Battlestar Galactica and improved upon it. One bad message I see in the original Galactica was the military is always right and civilians can't be trusted to rule themselves.

Macross is much more balanced as it recognizes the importance of civilians. Even allowing them to have a local government. In fact the message presented is that fighting isn't the only way, there are others. Thus we got the massive defections on Vrlitwhai's fleet. Who were enticed by this sort of life called civilian life.

That doesn't mean in Macross the military and civilian government don't butt heads from time to time. Despite the threat of Zentradi insurrectionist endangering the town to steal the miclone chamber the mayor had a point. The miclone chamber is there to be choice. A choice for the integrated Zentradi to be big or small. Take it away you take away that choice. Unfortunately Kaifun tend to fan up trhe flames as he is biased against the military. Which makes me suspect he was an Anti-UN sympathizer during the UN War.

Of course there is the love stories and relationships which sets apart Macross from Gundam. Not just one love story but several. Hikaru-Misa-Minmay, Roy-Claudia, Max-Millia, Quamzin-Laplamiz... (On the last one how the did those two get together?:)

Macross presented us a world after the end of the world. A time for rebuilding and a hint of great things to come. Global's colonization plan would be the stepping stone for the next sequels of Macross. (After Macross II)
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Old 2009-12-22, 03:51   Link #213
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Astroboy, Speed Racer, Starblazers, Mazinger-Z, G-Force, Voltron, Thundersub...

No it isn't.

There was already an anime fandom back then. Through this community Carl Macek got wind of this hit series called Macross.
Thanks for clearing that up. As I said, I was going from half-remembered information from by now unknown sources.
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Old 2009-12-23, 07:11   Link #214
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Of course there is the love stories and relationships which sets apart Macross from Gundam. Not just one love story but several. Hikaru-Misa-Minmay, Roy-Claudia, Max-Millia, Quamzin-Laplamiz... (On the last one how the did those two get together?:)
I guess he saved her ship or something. Quamzin actually changed his mind for a while and joined in the final battle of Space War I (which makes his "Am I not called Ally-killer" line when his aide points out they'll be attacking their own forces so awesome), unlike Khyron.
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Old 2009-12-25, 15:58   Link #215
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I think he is trying to start a fight or something.

Robotech is three different anime series butchered and mashed into one series. It can't compare with Macross and it tarnishes the Macross name too.
It didn't tarnish Macross' name at all, ROBOTECH was the FIRST anime (yes I went there) I ever saw. And it completely changed my life as a 10 yearold back when it aired on KTLA.

Everything that stems from the original Macross, the emotional connection, the views of love, relationships, duty, death and morals are still present. The beauty of music and the debates of peace vs. war or civilians vs military, the resilience of man and the amazing power of the human spirit are still present, the core of Macross was left untouched.

..... No, Macross' name was not tarnished the least bit. And I still thank Macek everytime I see him for doing what he did to get that show out here for western audiences. And if I were in his shoes I would of done the exact same.
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Old 2009-12-25, 17:52   Link #216
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..... No, Macross' name was not tarnished the least bit.
Erm...what do you call this, then?

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Old 2009-12-25, 19:05   Link #217
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Erm...what do you call this, then?
Dunno about him, but I find it hilarious - in a very bad way.
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Old 2009-12-25, 20:37   Link #218
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It didn't tarnish Macross' name at all, ROBOTECH was the FIRST anime (yes I went there) I ever saw. And it completely changed my life as a 10 yearold back when it aired on KTLA.

Everything that stems from the original Macross, the emotional connection, the views of love, relationships, duty, death and morals are still present. The beauty of music and the debates of peace vs. war or civilians vs military, the resilience of man and the amazing power of the human spirit are still present, the core of Macross was left untouched.

..... No, Macross' name was not tarnished the least bit. And I still thank Macek everytime I see him for doing what he did to get that show out here for western audiences. And if I were in his shoes I would of done the exact same.
Now, if Harmony Gold would stop being a bunch of immense asses by blocking everything Macross related outside of Japan, I think a lot of the bad blood would blow over pretty quickly.
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Old 2009-12-26, 05:14   Link #219
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It didn't tarnish Macross' name at all, ROBOTECH was the FIRST anime (yes I went there) I ever saw. And it completely changed my life as a 10 yearold back when it aired on KTLA.

Everything that stems from the original Macross, the emotional connection, the views of love, relationships, duty, death and morals are still present. The beauty of music and the debates of peace vs. war or civilians vs military, the resilience of man and the amazing power of the human spirit are still present, the core of Macross was left untouched.

..... No, Macross' name was not tarnished the least bit. And I still thank Macek everytime I see him for doing what he did to get that show out here for western audiences. And if I were in his shoes I would of done the exact same.
It must be good to live in a dream world.
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Old 2009-12-26, 16:42   Link #220
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Erm...what do you call this, then?
.... I'm speechless.... as I don't know how a terrible 80s commercial illustrates anything as they were ALL terrible, but here's one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Orn_9v-v0tA


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Now, if Harmony Gold would stop being a bunch of immense asses by blocking everything Macross related outside of Japan, I think a lot of the bad blood would blow over pretty quickly.

I absolutely agree with this, but it became such a complex issue that I doubt it will ever be resolved which is certainly sad. But will it heal a lot of bad blood? In a word no. When you got fans like these:
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It must be good to live in a dream world.
It's ignorance like this that just never goes away. People just love to ignore its huge influence and popularity/accepting that helped push anime in its current state, and despite the fact that it created the longest on-going anime mag (Protoculture Addicts) that I used to read like a madman. And they tend to forget that all three versions of the show are now and have been available in its "original" states.

But fans like that all they see is a few name changes and some stuff switched and automatically assume its been butchered to death without realizing the stuff that made all the shows so great were still intact, hell Next Generation (MOSEPEDA) wasn't even edited much at all nude scene between Scott Bernard... I'm sorry I mean.. "Stick Bernard" and Marlene... erm.. I mean "Aisha" still aired on TV in all its glory I have it recorded on my VHS tapes still, but it was removed in later boradcasts. But theres so much misconception that the mob mentality takes over and no one wants to figure out whats really "butchered" or why. And ANYONE and I mean ANYONE whom remembers the 80s vividly knows why ROBOTECH had to be created.

Its funny earlier this year when I visited Japan I was with some friends and we were looking at blurays and saw the Macross Frontier ones. And I asked my friends if they ever seen the ROBOTECH adpation, and not only have they seen it, they take it Macross as canon, and apparently thats what a lot of fans have done. According to them Protoculture their Midichlorians Since its such a complex concept that takes a lot of away from the show sometimes.

But ya... Harmony Gold and all involved are douchebags.
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