2009-12-27, 16:37 | Link #4501 | |
This is my ____ face
|
Quote:
Spoiler for Observations and theories concerning Hideyoshi's murder:
__________________
|
|
2009-12-27, 16:45 | Link #4502 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2009-12-27, 16:48 | Link #4503 | |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
|
Quote:
1) Battler agreed to go along with the plan, but once Erika and Eva started really tearing into Natsuhi, he got pissed off and started to defend her. He was willing to pressure her, but Battler won't let them go too far. I theorize that Battler knew Kinzo was dead and may have suspected what Natsuhi was doing, but understood her reasons for doing so and realized it wasn't worth breaking her for financial gain when he'd just found the gold and thus solved most everyone's financial problems. Eva dislikes Natsuhi and Erika is just an ass, so they refused to stop even though it wasn't necessary. 2) Battler's part in the conspiracy was to play the role of the doubter. The purpose of the First Twilight "murders" was not to pressure Natsuhi, but to pressure Erika. People were suspicious of her presence on the island and - not aware of the Knox rules or anything - thought she might be up to something. Thus they created a plan to frame Natsuhi, but Battler's role is to defend Natsuhi and find flaws in Erika's arguments to see if she'll make a mistake when she gets upset. It's even possible to argue Natsuhi and Krauss were in on it; for all we know, they admitted Kinzo's death (after all, the gold would solve their problems too, and Battler would be generous) and agreed to participate in a plan to test Erika and see if she was up to something. Of course, that makes the Ushiromiya family very good actors, but then again, we know Natsuhi is. 3) An unorthodox theory: Battler knows something everyone else doesn't, related to his lie to Erika about seeing Kinzo and his presentation of the corpse of Kinzo. Whatever the plan was, he subtly works against it to cut Natsuhi some slack, because something that he has learned makes him sympathetic. Perhaps only Battler realizes that there might be a real culprit, and is playing himself against Erika and the conspirators goading her into framing Natsuhi in order to smoke out who it really is (he doesn't know yet which of the people is the one, but he thinks he may be able to figure it out based on what they say and do with Natsuhi). EDIT: Regarding Hideyoshi, his behavior is very strange. He talks out loud; why? I don't talk to myself if I'm alone. He also cries rather audibly. I think he's doing this because he knows that someone can hear him. |
|
2009-12-27, 17:03 | Link #4504 | |
This is my ____ face
|
Quote:
Spoiler:
__________________
|
|
2009-12-27, 17:08 | Link #4505 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
|
Quote:
Quote:
つまり、屋敷にいた人物全員が、ノック音の発生源とは成り得ない、という意味デス。……そしてこの“全員” とは、誰も把握していない、観測されていない人物であったとしても含みマス。 In short, this means it was impossible for any character within the mansion to be the source of a knocking SOUND. ....And 'any character' refers even to undiscovered people that no one has noticed. Regardless of when the knock occured, if it really did occur it could not have occured from within the mansion.
__________________
|
||
2009-12-27, 17:18 | Link #4506 | |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
|
Quote:
|
|
2009-12-27, 17:25 | Link #4507 | |
This is my ____ face
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2009-12-27, 17:47 | Link #4508 |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
|
According to Dlanor, it's impossible to make a piece behave out of character. Regardless of what Bern or Lambda wanted to do at that point, it would be OOC for Battler to suddenly throw away one of his goals for no reason.
|
2009-12-27, 17:48 | Link #4509 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
|
Quote:
If the argument is that the clock just stopped telling time properly was there any clue that could indicate this? If there is no clue then this solution is in violation of Knox Article 8 Sorry, it's not realistic. I'm not saying I've come with anything better though.
__________________
|
|
2009-12-27, 17:56 | Link #4510 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Buffer overflow
|
We see the letter and hear the knock because everyone in the room at the time lied to Krauss and said that this happened. They all shared in the same lie, so it was possible for the "magic" to be shown during the game, even though there was no knock and the letter was written by Eva and friends.
You have to find loopholes in the red for this to work, but I think you can argue that Lambda only says "they never misheard a knock", not "there was a knock that couldn't have been misheard". If you think about it, the letter is ridiculously advantageous to the other siblings. It means that even if Kinzo goes missing, they still have evidence that he passed the headship on to Battler. I don't have a full theory here though...
__________________
|
2009-12-27, 17:58 | Link #4511 | |
This is my ____ face
|
Quote:
__________________
Last edited by Li Jianliang; 2009-12-27 at 20:05. |
|
2009-12-27, 18:06 | Link #4512 | |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
|
Quote:
So even if everybody faked the letter, someone had to also provide Battler with the signet ring. It's entirely possible that person was in on it of course, but they'd basically have to admit that they had the ring. If it was Genji, of course perhaps that's expected. If it was, say, Shannon... |
|
2009-12-27, 18:10 | Link #4513 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Buffer overflow
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2009-12-27, 21:08 | Link #4514 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
|
Quote:
At this point you are not only stating that someone changed the clock in the main all but that very same person also went as far as going into Natsuhi's room and change that clock as well. While the clock in the main hall is something everyone would hear and it is somehow justifiable, the clock in Natsuhi's room is something only Natsuhi could see. So it makes no sense to think the "culprit" would only change that. Are you telling me that the culprit changed every single clock in the mansion? And how about wristwatches? Did those were changed as well? I will say in blue that Going that far and through all that hassle is practically impossible, and therefore the probability for this to have happened isn't higher than 1% unless a proper explanation is being given. But as far as I know, no one ever managed to give a proper explanation as to way someone would have tampered with the clocks. Alternatively if your line of defense is that only the clock in the hall was changed or for some reasons runned late or earlier Every person in the family meeting is an important figure in business world, it is a given that each one of them possess a wristwatch. It was stated that George had one, it is preposterous to think no one else had one. Given that fact it is definitely strange that no one noticed that there was something wrong with the clock in the main hall.
__________________
|
|
2009-12-27, 21:53 | Link #4515 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
|
Quote:
Rosa called Genji and said, "We're taking a break. Sorry, but could you make us something to drink? And maybe some biscuits would be nice too." Genji responded, "Certainly, I will prepare it right away...." I don't trust Rosa and Genji after episode 2. Did they take advantage of the break in the conference? After Genji and Krauss (why did Genji and Krauss return together?) returned from the break Genji noticed the ring and pointed out to Krauss. It's out of character for Genji point something out like that. I think it's clear he wanted Krauss to notice the ring immediately. Well, if Genji didn't point it out Krauss probably would have eventually noticed or one of the other adults would have directed Krauss's attention that way. However... Someone from the conference may have ordered "preperations" to be made regarding the envelope and the ring during the break. It wasn't Genji who left the envelope but he could have been involved with contacting the one who actually did.
__________________
|
|
2009-12-27, 22:14 | Link #4516 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
|
I definitely disagree with one thing you said.
It isn't out of character for Genji to notice the ring. In Ep1 is the one who notices Kinzo's ring is missing from his corpse and he points that out. I think that whatever happened to the ring after Kinzo's death Genji is involved with that.
__________________
|
2009-12-27, 22:20 | Link #4517 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2009-12-27, 23:02 | Link #4519 | |
This is my ____ face
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2009-12-27, 23:08 | Link #4520 |
Author Wannabe
Join Date: Aug 2009
|
I'd really like a confirmation that the original Japanese said in unambiguous terms that the knock actually happened, because everything I saw in the English translation was either vague or seemed worded to intentionally mislead you into thinking a knock that didn't happen did happen.
People keep saying "it definitely said it happened" but I thought I was paying pretty close attention to the wording and if there was something that unambiguous IN RED I totally missed it. (Admittedly I was up ~6 hours past when I'd normally go to sleep, so yeah). It just seems REALLY suspicious to me that LD was so quick to jump in with something as oddly worded as "No one misheard a knock" (or whatever the exact wording was) after being so stingy with it. |
|
|