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Old 2009-12-28, 14:49   Link #5241
Cipher
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
he was both.

Cao Cao was a very good ruler and the people in Wei prosper under his rule but he was ambitious and more then willing wash his hands in blood if he thought it was necessary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
He is amoral to anyone outside of his governance. If it wasn't for Zhuge Liang, he would have beaten Liu Bei and Sun Quan hands down and enslaved them.

According to the Three Kingdoms original novella, he buried the head of his enemy Guan Yu with the rites of a Marquis. If this is true, he certainly deserves his place in the history as the most cunning yet honorable politician amongst all.

OT : I kind of feel guilty swearing at my Chinese teacher 7 years back in school for teaching us these "irrelevant facts that has no pertaining use to our futures".
Like every other wei-jin ruler, he had +'s and -'s. He wasn't the only "warlord". Surrender was always an option but no ruler came through. I just thought that he was less "mean" that he's currently portrayed as. boldly, i say he might've shown more compassion than liu bei. I'm not sure about any historic evidences though....accounts of his actions might show something but this new discovery might give better light. that is if its confirmed...
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Old 2009-12-28, 17:30   Link #5242
mg1942
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NY city sets new record on crime/murder

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/29/ny...gewanted=print
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Old 2009-12-28, 17:34   Link #5243
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mg1942 View Post
It is because they don't have money to buy guns anymore.

But since most crimes' primary motivation is money, it could be due to the paradigm that "What is the use of robbing someone else? We, even our victims, are all broke."

Now that is a smart way of thinking.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2009-12-28, 18:13   Link #5244
Irenicus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnieS View Post
On a lighter note, it looks like the tomb of Cao Cao (Chinese name of "曹操") who was one of the leaders during the Three Kingdoms era may have been found. It'll be very interesting if this was the real burial site and can help provide more info on the man himself.
F'yeah, Cao Cao! This is like, beyond awesome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart
He is amoral to anyone outside of his governance. If it wasn't for Zhuge Liang, he would have beaten Liu Bei and Sun Quan hands down and enslaved them.
The novel gave a lot of the credit to Zhuge Liang, but really, the victory at the Red Cliffs' was Wu's. Historical records considered Zhou Yu to be the mastermind of the entire operation.

I think he was planning on getting one up on Liu Bei and invade Yizhou before the latter could when he got sick and died. Unite the South, face the North kind of plan.
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Old 2009-12-28, 18:44   Link #5245
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post
F'yeah, Cao Cao! This is like, beyond awesome.


The novel gave a lot of the credit to Zhuge Liang, but really, the victory at the Red Cliffs' was Wu's. Historical records considered Zhou Yu to be the mastermind of the entire operation.

I think he was planning on getting one up on Liu Bei and invade Yizhou before the latter could when he got sick and died. Unite the South, face the North kind of plan.
Zhou Yu was a capable strategist, but the only thing is that he lacked the age and wisdom equivalent of Zhuge's. His main gift is his sharpness, that even a saying goes by that he can tell the error in a musical piece.

Looks like the saying "Speak of the devil" in Chinese (direct translation would be "Speaking of Cao Cao, here he comes.") really has its true sense to it after all these years of people discussing the Three Kingdoms.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2009-12-28, 18:44   Link #5246
mg1942
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The South to get more political power through census
http://usatoday.printthis.clickabili...partnerID=1660

Quote:
Eight states, including six in the South and Southwest, would gain seats in the House of Representatives if apportionment were done today rather than after the 2010 Census, according to an analysis by the non-partisan Election Data Services.

Texas would be the biggest winner, adding three seats.

In line to add a seat: Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Nevada, South Carolina, Utah and Washington.

Redistricting fights already are shaping up in such states as California, where Democrats control the Legislature.
If the trends hold, California would not gain any new House members the first time that has been the case since 1920.

Ohio would lose two seats, and Illinois, Iowa, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Michigan, New Jersey, New York and Pennsylvania would each lose one.
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Old 2009-12-28, 18:53   Link #5247
hinakatbklyn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
It is because they don't have money to buy guns anymore.

But since most crimes' primary motivation is money, it could be due to the paradigm that "What is the use of robbing someone else? We, even our victims, are all broke."

Now that is a smart way of thinking.
Compared to the early 1990's (when it was very high), I believe the record. But it can be very deceptive if it's not reported in the newspapers. I find time to read the newspapers and I find an average of at least 1 murder a day. (And it's not classified as murder if the weapon is a vehicle) No place is safe but these stories in the city newspapers appear in similar neighborhoods.
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Old 2009-12-29, 00:11   Link #5248
Irenicus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Zhou Yu was a capable strategist, but the only thing is that he lacked the age and wisdom equivalent of Zhuge's. His main gift is his sharpness, that even a saying goes by that he can tell the error in a musical piece.
Of course, that's how the novel wrote him. Intelligent, but not wise, and always second to Zhuge Liang. "Having born Yu, wherefore also Liang?"

But I was talking about what the historical records actually said, however. And the chroniclers of the time acknowledged Zhou Yu as the overall commander of the whole affair, while Zhuge Liang apparently played only a minor diplomatic role. In other words, Zhou Yu's victory.

Rather, Zhuge Liang's genius would be shown after the victory at Chibi, when the Liu camp swept in and rapidly occupied Jingzhou while Sun Quan's forces were bogged down fighting Cao Cao's lieutenants. Suddenly the refugee warlord with little resources became the master of one of China's richest provinces, well-populated and far less war torn than the bloodied North, and this time Cao Cao was in no shape to uproot them. So I guess in a way you would be right -- Zhou Yu won the battle; Zhuge Liang took the spoils and gave Liu Bei a lasting base of power.

Now, the reason why Wei -- or technically its successor Jin -- achieved unification was Cao Cao's genius. When you consider in context how governments in far better circumstances fared so much worse, Cao Cao's brilliance as an administrator was absolutely astonishing. The novel didn't pay much attention to it at all, but what Cao Cao "inherited" (i.e. wrested from one rival warlord after another) were regions with probably millions of displaced refugees suffering from decades of constant warfare and repeated natural disasters. It wrote him as the archetypal villain, but even so it couldn't make him out to be anything less than brilliant to be able to do all that he did and restored order and economic prosperity to the heartlands and cementing Wei's eventual dominance.

Quote:
Looks like the saying "Speak of the devil" in Chinese (direct translation would be "Speaking of Cao Cao, here he comes.") really has its true sense to it after all these years of people discussing the Three Kingdoms.
Well, it *is* world class literature, and its influence in Asia is beyond compare...except perhaps by the Ramayana, which was adopted as a "national" epic by many more cultures than just Indian ones.

Your very usage of the proverb shows how much it meant to Chinese civilization after all. When Luo Guanzhong wrote it down during the Ming Dynasty he was relying on far more than just the historical records, he had centuries' worth of popular literature to rely on -- dramas and plays, oral legends, etc.
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Old 2009-12-29, 19:43   Link #5249
mg1942
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Why So Many Terrorists Get Their Start as Engineers

The crotch bomber was an engineer. So were eight of the 25 terrorists involved in 9/11. In fact, half of all known "violent jihadists" reach higher education, and 44 percent of them are engineers. Uh, that looks like a pattern
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Old 2009-12-29, 19:51   Link #5250
cors8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mg1942 View Post
Why So Many Terrorists Get Their Start as Engineers

The crotch bomber was an engineer. So were eight of the 25 terrorists involved in 9/11. In fact, half of all known "violent jihadists" reach higher education, and 44 percent of them are engineers. Uh, that looks like a pattern
Not surprising at all. I'm sure they're also recruiting specialists in IT and other fields of the future.
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Old 2009-12-29, 20:02   Link #5251
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mg1942 View Post
Why So Many Terrorists Get Their Start as Engineers

The crotch bomber was an engineer. So were eight of the 25 terrorists involved in 9/11. In fact, half of all known "violent jihadists" reach higher education, and 44 percent of them are engineers. Uh, that looks like a pattern
So does it mean people like Vexx would have become terrorists if they aren't talent-spotted by government agencies? I don't think so.

The crotch bomber is certainly a "dickhead" to begin with (pun unintended). Sure you can drill him all the maths and science it takes to be an engineer, but I don't think he is smart enough to question his own religious motives.
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2009-12-29, 20:31   Link #5252
mg1942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
So does it mean people like Vexx would have become terrorists if they aren't talent-spotted by government agencies? I don't think so.

The crotch bomber is certainly a "dickhead" to begin with (pun unintended). Sure you can drill him all the maths and science it takes to be an engineer, but I don't think he is smart enough to question his own religious motives.
my take...

Do those with a terrorist agenda get an engineering degree or training because they feel that it will give them a better toolset to be a better terrorist? Or do those that are inclined to get engineering training have a psychological profile that is conducive to following a terrorist path? More to the point, Engineers have to deal with mathematics, physics, laws, formulas and other rigid factors when engineering things, etc. When they suddenly have to comprehend the insane drivel of our society, political correctness, politics, trade agreements, embargos, and the like, it could set off a synaptic reaction that leads towards violence. Engineers like order. Action/reaction... a + b = c. Social interaction precludes logic and an engineer may very well conclude that instead of trying to fix it, you nuke it all and start over from scratch. In America, we look at the rest of the world knowing that if they really ,really, really pissed us of, we could glassify their homeland and be done with the lot of them. Knowing that probably does much to diffuse the anger and disgust engineers have with society. Other countries, however, don't have the luxury of possessing the 'ultimate solution', so their engineers have to resort to other means to satisfy their disgust or anger with America. Hence, Terrorism
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Old 2009-12-29, 20:43   Link #5253
Vexx
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I used to know a GEOPHYSICIST that worked for oil... who was a creationist/fundamentalist. Somehow he managed to compartmentalize all the facts in front of him in his daily work with the idea of a 5000 year old Earth.

No, it never made sense to me either.
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Old 2009-12-29, 23:38   Link #5254
mg1942
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Free TV in trouble...

...The business model is unraveling at ABC, CBS, NBC and Fox and the local stations that carry the networks' programming. Cable TV and the Web have fractured the audience for free TV and siphoned its ad dollars. The recession has squeezed advertising further, forcing broadcasters to accelerate their push for new revenue to pay for programming...
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Old 2009-12-29, 23:46   Link #5255
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mg1942 View Post
Free TV in trouble...

...The business model is unraveling at ABC, CBS, NBC and Fox and the local stations that carry the networks' programming. Cable TV and the Web have fractured the audience for free TV and siphoned its ad dollars. The recession has squeezed advertising further, forcing broadcasters to accelerate their push for new revenue to pay for programming...
don't watch tv, wouldn't care one bit if all tv networks disappear.
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Old 2009-12-30, 02:18   Link #5256
Vexx
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Tonight.. for the first time I can remember.... a commercial broadcast station carried a program that had originally aired on PBS a few days before. That's one sign of the spiraling crash of commercial broadcast tv, my wife remarked -- well, its a lot better than an infomercial but good grief.

... the other is the hours and hours of infomercials, the evening news sponsored by Bass-omatic Ronco Turnip Twaddlers only sold on TV, the failure to capture even important local sports events, the hundred variations on the exact same CSI/L&O theme. I won't exactly miss commercial tv, but I grew up when variety shows and comedy sketch shows were king -- I'd rather pull up a few hours of classic Carol Burnett or Dean Martin than watch the pathetic shadows I see now. Actually, I'd rather play a good RPG, a board game, or read a book.
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Old 2009-12-30, 05:27   Link #5257
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
don't watch tv, wouldn't care one bit if all tv networks disappear.
Same here. I feel that if you are not watching a documentary or comedy or porn, there is nothing else you should be watching on that set.

I never liked watching television. Pity it is the largest form of entertainment in the world.
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2009-12-30, 10:05   Link #5258
Shadow Kira01
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Ozawa floats Shimoji, Ie islands as Futemma's possible alternative

Quote:
Meanwhile, Shigeru Ishiba, the policy chief of the main opposition Liberal Democratic Party, criticized Ozawa on Wednesday, saying that the Okinawa prefectural assembly adopted a resolution pledging not to convert the runway on Shimoji Island for military use.

''They don't seem to me to have been remarks Mr. Ozawa made after studying it thoroughly,'' Ishiba said.
Quote:
Hatoyama, who has put off deciding on where to relocate Futemma, has expressed reservations about it being moved to Guam -- an idea proposed by the SDP -- citing the deterrence the Marine base provides Japan and the surrounding region.

But on Wednesday, the prime minister expressed some lingering feelings about the option in a meeting with Yoshihiro Kawakami, a DPJ lawmaker in the House of Councillors.

Asked if he would be willing to call for Futemma's relocation to the U.S. territory in the Pacific, Hatoyama was quoted by Kawakami as telling him, ''Guam will be the best if the United States can accept it.''
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Old 2009-12-30, 11:46   Link #5259
hinakatbklyn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mg1942 View Post
Free TV in trouble...

...The business model is unraveling at ABC, CBS, NBC and Fox and the local stations that carry the networks' programming. Cable TV and the Web have fractured the audience for free TV and siphoned its ad dollars. The recession has squeezed advertising further, forcing broadcasters to accelerate their push for new revenue to pay for programming...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
don't watch tv, wouldn't care one bit if all tv networks disappear.
I only heard of fox affiliates trying to be taken off free or cable tv completely (at least my cable company Time Warner anyway). Of course, the main culprit is money. Too bad half the world is dependent on tv for entertainment. Another problem is those who work at these companies, they lose money, they lose jobs.

However, for those who rely on tv, if there's no tv there's always spend more time with family (those who have family.)
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Old 2009-12-30, 12:13   Link #5260
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hinakatbklyn View Post
I only heard of fox affiliates trying to be taken off free or cable tv completely (at least my cable company Time Warner anyway). Of course, the main culprit is money. Too bad half the world is dependent on tv for entertainment. Another problem is those who work at these companies, they lose money, they lose jobs.

However, for those who rely on tv, if there's no tv there's always spend more time with family (those who have family.)
there are ways to entertain yourself before tv was invented and that is exactly why tv network are in trouble because people are finding you can live without tv. So losing the tv networks isn't earth shattering, people will adjust.

the economic side is different althought a good trade off is no more political ads.
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