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Old 2009-12-28, 21:07   Link #261
Jan-Poo
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To be honest your premise is exactly the total opposite of mine ^^;

Shannon in Ep1 said that Kinzo talks about the great kanto earthquake as if it is something that didn't concern him. And then Eva said she went to visit Kinzo's hometown as a vacation.

Everything seems to point out that Kinzo's hometown wasn't anywhere close to the Tokyo district. At the very least I'd remove the Kanto region from the possibilities.
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Old 2009-12-28, 21:14   Link #262
Kiyoji Haruki
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Indeed, I don't really belive my theory is the right one but after seeing the "Japan's bellybutton" and a "Village" right south of there I had to share this XD
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Old 2009-12-29, 03:20   Link #263
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I chose pyongyang to test to see if I could make 6 letters, jan, because it was one of the most japanified of all korean cities during the occupation. The fact that it is a ****hole now has nothing to do with it, but it was HEAVILY japanese beforehand.

Anyway, this theory is becoming much more convincing thanks to this:

Quote:
The sweetfish river" : I believe it's not an actual river. After all, Evatrice told Eva to think about something that resembles a river. As Jan-Poo said, it must be possible to see it in an atlas. If we suppose that Eva didn't look in any specialized atlas, for example an atlas of sewage system, the amount of possible "rivers" is not very big. What "lines" can you find in any atlas? Roads, railways, rivers (but we've ruled them out), boundaries, oil and gas pipelines, and then maybe other transport such as metro lines and trams, depends on the scale of the map.
There are three highways in North Korea. One of which leads to a port town Wonsan. Even though I doubt it was a highway in 1986, it probably was one of the arterial roads in N.Korea. And here comes the interesting point. Wonsan is administratively divided into 40 dongs(洞) and 15 ri(里). So we have the "village" (里). But then I'm clueless about the shore part. An old Japanese map of Korea might help though.
Wonsan is written in hancha as 元山

This means the origin or base of the mountain when taken separately.

Look at a map of Rokkenjima.

I think this points to where the secret passage is.
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Old 2009-12-29, 07:06   Link #264
matteas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zorahk View Post
I chose pyongyang to test to see if I could make 6 letters, jan, because it was one of the most japanified of all korean cities during the occupation. The fact that it is a ****hole now has nothing to do with it, but it was HEAVILY japanese beforehand.

Anyway, this theory is becoming much more convincing thanks to this:



Wonsan is written in hancha as 元山

This means the origin or base of the mountain when taken separately.

Look at a map of Rokkenjima.

I think this points to where the secret passage is.
But we can only speculate about the existence of a certain mountain on Rokkenjima. We haven't been shown any map of Rokkenjima in the VN, and I don't remember any mountain being mentioned. Or did I forget about anything?

Furthermore, I don't get why it tells about a shore. The two are supposed to tell you about the shore, and basing on my theory, the two here would probably be 元 and 山. I tried to play with the kanji for shore and these two kanji, but it didn't bear any fruit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Everything seems to point out that Kinzo's hometown wasn't anywhere close to the Tokyo district. At the very least I'd remove the Kanto region from the possibilities.
I think it's not absurd to remove even the whole mainland Japan. There were disputes about the successor to Ushiromiya estate in which many families took part. They were many, so we can suppose that they weren't only in Kantou, but that they were scattered over a larger area. Eventually, an outsider was chosen to inherit the title of Ushiromiya head. This outsider, Kinzou, had no connections with the families that had been broiling about the succession. Therefore, we can presume that he lived somewhere farther. I, from my viewpoint, would rule out at least the whole Honshuu.

Last edited by matteas; 2009-12-29 at 07:23.
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Old 2009-12-29, 08:02   Link #265
Jan-Poo
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You are probably right, it's not in Honshu.

One of area I thought was Hokkaido, because it somehow justify Eva's reasoning about "to the sea". Since Hokkaido means "the way to the northern sea". Plus at the time trains used go to the sea through train ferries to reach Hokkaido, therefore matching the ayu analogy perfectly.

However if Eva knew the homeland already, thinking about Hokkaido wouldn't be such a great find.

@zohrak

I think you need to try to solve the riddle in a more consistent way. If the homeland is "korea" and the river that runs through it is the "DMZ" then at this point you are supposed to follow the river downstream. The kanji used means "down" without any possible doubt of interpretation. So how can the village be Pyongyang if it is on the northern part?
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Old 2009-12-30, 14:07   Link #266
Kishin
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unfortunatly im too lazy to search through the rest of this thread to see if its been posted before but heres the chunks of my theory that i cant really get much farther with as a non-japanese;
Sweetfish river is an analogy for a street going through kinzos 'beloved hometown' which from faint memory i think is kyoto but i need to check up on it. sweetfish refers to people so a common site for either marathons (running through it) or just a busy street would be what it refers to. If this street is followed all the way down... this is about as far as i got without backup info (atlas/google maps) but there must be some kind of villiage connected or some kind of place with the character for villiage in there. there must be two things of significance in said villiage which can be taken to mean 'the two' and will help point toward the 'shore', anyways from there its mostly what others speculate, but once the key is found and it doesnt add up to six characters, i figured that rosa keeps bringing up the の in 'villiage of gold' so maybe forcing that into the key would add it up into six characters.
Anyways my theory gets more and more fragmented as it goes so anyone who wants to glue it together take a shot.
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Old 2009-12-30, 19:37   Link #267
Tabura
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Just putting down something I thought of just now... hometown was stated to be an actual place, sweetfish river- sweetfish can actually be translated as bountiful and we were told in ep 5 that thinking of sweetfish in a river should make us think of something similar. Like a train with passangers. Bountiful with passangers... kinda what Japanese trains are. I don't quite get the downstream part... maybe going down Japan? to kyoto maybe? Rosa said something about Kyoto so I've been looking for clues connecting to that. And what do you find if you follow a railway "downstream"? Well there's definately gonna be some kind of a village. After that I'm no longer sure maybe a village famous for its shore and has something to do with a railway? I only thought about the first part and I'm sleepy so I didn't really think about much after that bountiful river=packed train thing :P
*edit* oh and Rosa said it wasn't really needed while Eva said it was a good hint. Kinda works wonders for the train theory
*edit* or throwing that theory aside some other way to read sweetfish?
*edit*Any1 thought of checking the names yet? Maybe the characters that repeat (if any do) every time the 6 sacrafices come around are the key to the golden land?
*edit* Did any1 else notice that the arms are missing in the epitaph? even tho the legs are mentioned twice...

Last edited by Tabura; 2009-12-30 at 19:55.
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Old 2009-12-30, 20:53   Link #268
xxhiddenmoonlightxx
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I asked some people, they came up with

Bridge
and
Border

I'm still thinking

Last edited by xxhiddenmoonlightxx; 2009-12-31 at 14:42.
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Old 2009-12-31, 05:20   Link #269
Tabura
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Confused...which "theory"/question is that supposed to anwser?
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Old 2009-12-31, 14:40   Link #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tabura View Post
Confused...which "theory"/question is that supposed to anwser?
me?

what the river is
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Old 2010-01-01, 18:18   Link #271
Tabura
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Lol... didn't notice another page popped up already XD Wow that actually makes sense in a way... Thanks
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Old 2010-01-04, 00:35   Link #272
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I was looking in Wikipedia, and there is an Ayu (japanese for "sweetfish") Island in Indonesia, which was occupied in WWII. Has anyone mentioned this?
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Old 2010-01-04, 10:01   Link #273
Solitaired
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I just thought of a new theory regarding the 11/13 characters needed in the middle part of the epitaph, not sure whether has this been discussed already.

There is quite a frequent mention of the phrase : "愛がなければ視えない", which in romaji is "Ai ga nakereba mienai". Ain't "a", "i", "ga", "na", "ke", "re", "ba", "mi", "e", "na", "i" 11 characters? There has got to be a reason why this phrased is mentioned so frequently
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Old 2010-01-04, 10:46   Link #274
Tabura
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solitaired View Post
I just thought of a new theory regarding the 11/13 characters needed in the middle part of the epitaph, not sure whether has this been discussed already.

There is quite a frequent mention of the phrase : "愛がなければ視えない", which in romaji is "Ai ga nakereba mienai". Ain't "a", "i", "ga", "na", "ke", "re", "ba", "mi", "e", "na", "i" 11 characters? There has got to be a reason why this phrased is mentioned so frequently
God dammit you're right! XD And it makes sense to... can't be seen. Now we just need someone to confirm that and we have yet another highly plausible theory -.-'
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Old 2010-01-04, 12:34   Link #275
Jan-Poo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginari View Post
I was looking in Wikipedia, and there is an Ayu (japanese for "sweetfish") Island in Indonesia, which was occupied in WWII. Has anyone mentioned this?
There are a lot of "ayu" places, but since Rosa said that the "ayu" part is irrelevant I'm more bent to think anything that directly points to "ayu" should be disregarded.

Quote:
Ain't "a", "i", "ga", "na", "ke", "re", "ba", "mi", "e", "na" "i" 11 characters?
I'm not quite so fond of this theory because I don't think we have any proof that Eva stumbled upon this sentence. I don't remember it was ever said by Kinzo either.
The second reason is I am quite sure the word play is in romaji.

Anyway if this is the right approach, you should be able to form a name using 5 of those characters. However none of the 18 has a name that takes 5 kana.
as for the surname U SHI RO MI YA is exactly 5 hiragana, however you can't get that from that sentence. KU MA SA WA, GO U DA, NA N JO U, RO NO U E, do not reach the 5 characters.

None of the aforementioned people reach 5 characters with both name and surname together. Including Kyrie's unmarried name (no clue about Natsuhi and Hideyoshi)

It is dubious how many characters you should count for Beatrice, however it doesn't match either, and "Beato" is 5 letters only in romaji.

You can try however, maybe you can find something I can't see.
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Old 2010-01-04, 12:38   Link #276
matteas
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But if it really was 愛がなければ視えない, wouldn't it be impossible for the people on Rokkenjima, "the pieces", to unveil it? The riddle is probably solvable for mere pieces, EP3 proves that to some extent. Though the twilights might have remained unsolved, or solved in a wrong way in EP3. At least that's what I believe.
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Old 2010-01-04, 17:15   Link #277
Kishin
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I'm pretty sure an atlas is useful to confirm the answer or the key, so my guess is that the start is actually a place, versus a phrase or word interest to do with the epitaph
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Old 2010-01-04, 21:20   Link #278
Zork
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So, I doubt I'm on the real trail here, but the coincidences I came across were too amusing not to share.

The visual novels mentioned that Maria's name is possibly involved with the epitaph, so for fun I stuck each symbol of her name into a Japanese to English translator to see what each individually meant. For 真, I got true, real, etc. For 里, I got hometown, birthplace, etc.

Interesting, no? Suddenly I thought that Maria's name might literally point to the homeland you're supposed to start from in the epitaph. But then I tried 亞 and got... absolutely nothing. I don't know anything about Japanese writing, so if the translator had nothing to say I figured I was done. Then I remembered someone saying something about this part of Maria's name being used to identify the siesta sisters with her; specifically, they wear a cross on their armbands.

So, at this point I decided a leap of crazy was in order. Maybe 亞 is just meant a pictoral symbol? So I looked at it again and the first thing that came to mind was, well, the Swiss flag. Maybe not the golden land, per se, but they do have a lot of banks.

Now, you might see where this is going, but I didn't at first. I went to Wikipedia, looked at a list of rivers in Switzerland, and didn't really get anything out of it. I didn't think to go look in an atlas, which is really what I should have done. Why? Because atlases tend to point out important things like, say, capital cities, and the capital of Switzerland is Bern. And yes, if you check you'll discover that there was once a castle there. There's also a river: the old city (where the castle was) is built on the Aar, which eventually feeds into the Rhine.

Anyhow, I'm nearly done, but there is still one more minor coincidence. A section of the river passes through what is known as the Aar Gorge. This is apparently a popular tourist destination which includes, among other things, Reichenbach Falls. If you happen to be a fan of mystery novels (and especially detective novels) then you may remember this name because it's where Sherlock Holmes duked it out with Moriarty.
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Old 2010-01-05, 15:46   Link #279
Kishin
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didn't 亞 mean villiage or shore so every1 pointed that to the part of the epitaph identifying the village or shore? I think you might be onto somthing with maria pointing to the hometown although that switzerland point was kinda a jump lol, dont think bern has anything to do wit the epitaph.
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Old 2010-01-06, 10:52   Link #280
matteas
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The epitaph can't have anything to do with other witches and unearthly characters. That's because it's solvable for humans on Rokkenjima who know nothing of Bernkastel and others.
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