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Old 2009-12-31, 11:46   Link #1821
Rejuvenation
Final Elysium
 
 
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Why is this such a big deal? These people call Medaka friend sans Shiranui and Medaka calls them friends. All friendships aren't the same and especially in shounen manga where one significant event can make characters in this demographic buddies for a lifetime. It most certainly happens when it involves going up against opposing forces and saving/protecting people. Get that "No True Scotsman" BS out of here.

But of course since the Medaka hatred runs strong its a perfect chance to vilify her. Downplaying any of the good things she has said and done while making her seem like a massive bitch. Pretty much par for the course for some people. -_____-
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Old 2009-12-31, 16:16   Link #1822
Lummie
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Originally Posted by DJ Trouble View Post
In the ones from chapter one and seven, she's only using that face in saying thanks, not to get either of the two to do something. They've already agreed. Is it wrong to smile when saying thanks to someone?
There's a difference between thanking someone with a normal smile and something which Zen recognizes as one of her trump cards. Does she need to resort to this when she wants to express her gratitude? NO

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In the one from ch 26, she's not using that face to force her brother to do anything. Her brother is completely in love with her and doesn't need any kind of coercion if Medaka wants him to do something. She used that face to cover up her disgust with having to be in his presence. On the previous page, Zen is the one that even told her to smile instead of showing her disgust so openly.
I don't disagree entirely here but it was a reference that there still are occasions where the author draws this face.

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For the one from chapter six, I could argue that Zen isn't even looking at her when she makes that face. It's clear that she's standing behind him, and of the character's reactions to her outburst that we see, Zen's isn't one of them. Zen is looking at Akune, and proceeds to tackle him for the win. I could argue that, but let's not dwell on that fact. In that scene, what Medaka says is what motivates Zen to win. She says that she'd cry if he lost, and he says he doesn't even want to think about it, much less see it. If you want to call it manipulative, fine. It was. She used what she knew about her friend to get him to stop embarrassing himself. I think that's a good thing, personally.
This is what i don't understand, who the hell cares if he looked at her or not?
She used a cute face and a sweet voice, didn't she? You asked for proof and you got it. Regardless if he looked at her or didn't... motivated him or not... it's still remains a way to manipulate Zen and she knows that it works on him.

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Hmm, it sounded like you were complaining about Medaka getting annoyed when Shiranui interfered with her ability to dominate a situation . . . But you're not, at least not from the example you used. If you were complaining about that, then pull examples that actually show it. If you weren't complaining about it, then you need to be clearer with what you say.
http://www.onemanga.com/Medaka_Box/3/15/

She clearly cannot dominate in this situation because she knows she can't handle animals and couldn't stand it that Zen asks Shiranui (a outsider) for help. Therefore she tried again to handle the case despite knowing in the past that each animal couldn't stand her and that failure was likely guaranteed if she approached the dog. Thus she went instead of Zen and Shiranui.

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The examples you pulled out only show Medaka's jealousy of Zen and Shiranui being too close. That's not a big secret, or even surprising. Shiranui would very likely steal Zen from Medaka if given the chance, and Medaka is probably aware of this.
Yeah right, why would she? Medaka's jealousy of Zen getting too close with any girl hasn't been displayed ever before. Also Shiranui has never displayed any will of taking Zen away from Medaka. I don't know where you pulling that information from.
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Old 2009-12-31, 16:57   Link #1823
DJ Trouble
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Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
What gives her words more weight in this case?
Absolutely nothing, which was the point I was making. >_>

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Originally Posted by Lummie View Post
There's a difference between thanking someone with a normal smile and something which Zen recognizes as one of her trump cards. Does she need to resort to this when she wants to express her gratitude? NO
Says you. If she wants to use a super cute expression to show her thanks, then she can. If nothing else, it should show just how thankful she is. It's definitely not her trying to manipulate anyone to do something, which you claimed it was.

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Originally Posted by Lummie View Post
I don't disagree entirely here but it was a reference that there still are occasions where the author draws this face.
Don't add in references that have nothing to do with the discussion. If you're explaining that she's using the face to coerce people, and then you show an example that has nothing to do with that, it makes your argument look weak, and it'll eventually cause others (me) to not bothering to respond to you.

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Originally Posted by Lummie View Post
This is what i don't understand, who the hell cares if he looked at her or not?
She used a cute face and a sweet voice, didn't she? You asked for proof and you got it. Regardless if he looked at her or didn't... motivated him or not... it's still remains a way to manipulate Zen and she knows that it works on him.
The whole point of making a face is for people to see it. The super cute expression works on people because it's super cute and people see that's it super cute. If he's not looking, and she knows he's not in a position to look, then it doesn't matter. I also didn't make that the point for dismissing that scene. I wanted an example of Medaka using a cute facial expression to get Zen to do something, which you claimed she's done. That scene is not it.

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Originally Posted by Lummie View Post
http://www.onemanga.com/Medaka_Box/3/15/

She clearly cannot dominate in this situation because she knows she can't handle animals and couldn't stand it that Zen asks Shiranui (a outsider) for help. Therefore she tried again to handle the case despite knowing in the past that each animal couldn't stand her and that failure was likely guaranteed if she approached the dog. Thus she went instead of Zen and Shiranui.
The examples you pulled out only show Medaka's jealousy of Zen and Shiranui being too close. That's not a big secret, or even surprising. Shiranui would very likely steal Zen from Medaka if given the chance, and Medaka is probably aware of this.

I feel like your definition of dominate is a little loose, but whatever. I guess I'll accept that example, since you seem to be trying so hard . . .

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Originally Posted by Lummie View Post
Yeah right, why would she? Medaka's jealousy of Zen getting too close with any girl hasn't been displayed ever before. Also Shiranui has never displayed any will of taking Zen away from Medaka. I don't know where you pulling that information from.
Why would Shiranui take Zen? Because she likes him? Shiranui doesn't strike me as the type to have close friends, and yet she always seems to be pretty buddy-buddy with Zen. I don't think we've really seen her close to anyone besides Zen and the old guy. She has also expressed a dislike, or maybe flat out hatred, I can't remember, for Medaka. Taking Zen just to piss Medaka off doesn't seem too farfetched for her. I'm not saying she's actively tried in the past, I'm saying she probably would if she had the chance.

Zen doesn't try to get close with other girls. I'd say, front what we've seen, he's closest to Medaka, then Shiranui, then I guess Kikaijima, in that order. Kikaijima, and any other girl, aren't a threat to Medaka and Zen. Shiranui is because she likes him and he likes her. There's a possibility that Zen and Medaka could start hanging out less, and Zen and Shiranui would hang out more if Medaka gave them the chance and Shiranui made the move.

Last edited by DJ Trouble; 2009-12-31 at 17:08.
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Old 2009-12-31, 18:09   Link #1824
Darknemo2000
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Originally Posted by DJ Trouble View Post
Absolutely nothing, which was the point I was making. >_>
I answered in the sentence that followed this. Specially just for you i repeat it:

"she acts on those words - she indeed messes with other people and acts as a tyrant, while on the other hand her being a friend - is very questionable since I have not seen her being a true friend - just willing to fight all fights and calls herself a friend which is a very weak argument for being a friend you know."

Last edited by White Manju Bun; 2010-01-03 at 18:34. Reason: how bout no
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Old 2009-12-31, 19:32   Link #1825
DJ Trouble
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Even though I thought you were saying something different, I don't have much to add. Jetstorm already expressed my thoughts about it.

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Originally Posted by Jetstorm View Post
All friendships aren't the same.
That's a fact. You say Medaka isn't a friend and I say she is. Between the two of us I think I'm right and you're wrong about this, but I really don't feel a need or desire to try to convince you or even discuss this any further . . .

Last edited by White Manju Bun; 2010-01-04 at 10:05.
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Old 2009-12-31, 20:52   Link #1826
Rejuvenation
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I find it hilarious that Shiranui has been brought up yet there is no mob out to try and claim that she and Zenkichi aren't friends.

Shiranui is willing to let Zenkichi get mauled but do nothing about it. In fact, she derives pleasure from seeing Zenkichi in pain and doesn't bother to help him. Shiranui deserts Zenkichi when shit looks dangerous and normally makes it worse for him when shit hits the fan.

Despite all this Zenkichi does not give a damn and they are both friends. As awesome as Shiranui is, these are easily worse things than people claim Medaka has done but no one else is bothering to bring this up. Point is that regardless of if you hate or love these characters, saying they aren't friends due to whatever preference you have is ridiculous.

All friendships aren't the same and all people aren't the same. If people really want to nitpick over something so asinine, the only true friend Zenkichi probably has is Kikaijima. Oh look, No True Scotsman strikes again.
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Old 2009-12-31, 22:10   Link #1827
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Well Shiranui doesn't seem to be the kind of character that would come to your call if you were screaming for help. Well she might, only to record it with a camera... Any way, I thought we were discussing Medaka getting mad at Zenkichi and Shiranui's interaction with each other.

Where did the whole, friendship thing come into play? Isn't bringing friendship into the conversation going a little to far?
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Old 2010-01-01, 08:15   Link #1828
Arturro
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Originally Posted by Jetstorm View Post
I find it hilarious that Shiranui has been brought up yet there is no mob out to try and claim that she and Zenkichi aren't friends.
Could you remind me who and when told that Shiranui is Zenkichi friend? In this thread? A few people said that Shiranui is his friend - if my memory serves me right - same people whose believe Medaka is Zenkichi friend. In other words people who want to see in Medaka Box things which weren't there.

Both Medaka and Shiranui likes to manipulate people. The difference is Medaka is hypocrite, Shiranui is not.

Best interpretation for Medaka is that she doesn't know what is love and friendship. She just copy behavior of other people, claim to love everyone, while she doesn't love anyone but want to be loved. It also means she is manipulating everyone to love her, because she don't understand that forced love is not a true love. It makes her a hypocrite even if she has good intentions (I'm starting to doubt in her good intentions).
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Old 2010-01-01, 15:42   Link #1829
Jze0
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Woah! Zenkichi is actaully going to fight? This is kind of exiticing, didn't expect this to happen anytime soon. I really hope he puts up a good fight... this is the first time in a while that I felt eager for the next chapter.

Edit: Just realized, doesn't Jump have a week or two off? If thats the case the wait is going to be longer.
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Old 2010-01-05, 13:45   Link #1830
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Originally Posted by Jze0 View Post
Woah! Zenkichi is actaully going to fight? This is kind of exiticing, didn't expect this to happen anytime soon. I really hope he puts up a good fight... this is the first time in a while that I felt eager for the next chapter.

Edit: Just realized, doesn't Jump have a week or two off? If thats the case the wait is going to be longer.
Yeah, I don't think its coming back till like the 18th. I hate this time of year. Gotta wait almost a month for WSJ and even WSM is off for a bit. >< I want to see Zen's fight and I want to know what's going to happen to Ane-Doki now that it's getting good... and looking like it might end.
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Old 2010-01-09, 02:51   Link #1831
Jourdal
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I saw the 33 raw....we sure thats medaka's brother? he groped the crap out of her...

The kenjutsu boy in conjunction with this art style makes me want to read kenshin.

Zen actually going to fight...very interesting indeed..will he answer our prayers and assert himself as main character?

You know one the subject of main character VS protagonist whats going on reminds me of

Spoiler for VG spoiler:
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Old 2010-01-09, 08:56   Link #1832
Kurosu
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Originally Posted by Jourdal View Post
I saw the 33 raw....we sure thats medaka's brother? he groped the crap out of her...

The kenjutsu boy in conjunction with this art style makes me want to read kenshin.

Zen actually going to fight...very interesting indeed..will he answer our prayers and assert himself as main character?

You know one the subject of main character VS protagonist whats going on reminds me of

Spoiler for VG spoiler:
33 raw? The scanlation was out ages ago lol, I think brothers who are siscons tend to have similar behavior, though probably not to that extent...that I've seen in any manga anyways.

Last edited by Kurosu; 2010-01-09 at 15:02.
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Old 2010-01-09, 12:49   Link #1833
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Lol i haven't been following ANY manga last few months..and I haven't been hear..so i just saw the RAW on MH..thanks though i've got some catching up to do lol.
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Old 2010-01-10, 12:20   Link #1834
Kurosu
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Issue 7 Bottom 5
Medaka
Kanata
Rilenthal
Neko Wappa
Ane Dokii (out)

Issue 8
Lead CP: Psyren
CP: Nurarihyon, Beelzebub, Medaka

So it seems that Ane-doki is gone, and Medaka Box is getting a colour page, pretty neat eh? It sounds like Medaka Box might be sticking around for a longer time than people originally assumed, probably to the dismay of some people
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Old 2010-01-10, 13:06   Link #1835
Rejuvenation
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Originally Posted by Arturro View Post
Could you remind me who and when told that Shiranui is Zenkichi friend? In this thread? A few people said that Shiranui is his friend - if my memory serves me right - same people whose believe Medaka is Zenkichi friend. In other words people who want to see in Medaka Box things which weren't there.

Both Medaka and Shiranui likes to manipulate people. The difference is Medaka is hypocrite, Shiranui is not.

Best interpretation for Medaka is that she doesn't know what is love and friendship. She just copy behavior of other people, claim to love everyone, while she doesn't love anyone but want to be loved. It also means she is manipulating everyone to love her, because she don't understand that forced love is not a true love. It makes her a hypocrite even if she has good intentions (I'm starting to doubt in her good intentions).
The same people who see that the writing is on the wall about who is friends with who. But when someone else who treats Zenkichi worse was mentioned to make a point no one bothered to be up in arms about it. Showing some obvious bias imo. Too many people keep trying to downplay whats outright stated in this series for whatever reasons they have if it speaks against what they wish to interpret it as.

I'll say she knows what those kinds of feelings are in the text book sense of the words but she has a harder time grasping them in their entirety. Still doesn't change the fact that she she is friend's with Zenkichi whether people want to believe it or not. She may be a hypocrite with good intentions in regards to some things but her friendship with Zenkichi isn't one of them.

I won't be carrying on this conversation beyond this post. Feels absolutely pointless to do so for this topic.

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Originally Posted by Kurosu View Post
Issue 7 Bottom 5
Medaka
Kanata
Rilenthal
Neko Wappa
Ane Dokii (out)

Issue 8
Lead CP: Psyren
CP: Nurarihyon, Beelzebub, Medaka

So it seems that Ane-doki is gone, and Medaka Box is getting a colour page, pretty neat eh? It sounds like Medaka Box might be sticking around for a longer time than people originally assumed, probably to the dismay of some people
I honestly think they axed this one before even waiting to see volume 1 sales. They have to be like 2-4 weeks ahead or whatever for chapters turned in so they must have made this decision the week before or that very week. Either way, this goes on the list of dumb WSJ decisions from a business perspective.

I was thinking about how much I wanted a new color page. The last one was for the required chapter 2 color. Medaka continues to mirror Sket Dance, Psyren, and Mago in that it keeps having other series that do worse than it to cover for it. Only in this case, it is also like Mago in that the volume sales will keep growing at a fast rate.
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Old 2010-01-10, 22:56   Link #1836
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I honestly think they axed this one before even waiting to see volume 1 sales. They have to be like 2-4 weeks ahead or whatever for chapters turned in so they must have made this decision the week before or that very week. Either way, this goes on the list of dumb WSJ decisions from a business perspective.

I was thinking about how much I wanted a new color page. The last one was for the required chapter 2 color. Medaka continues to mirror Sket Dance, Psyren, and Mago in that it keeps having other series that do worse than it to cover for it. Only in this case, it is also like Mago in that the volume sales will keep growing at a fast rate.
Yeah, considering they usually give a months notice to the authors, it's like it was in the bottom for a couple of weeks and then gone. Kind of dumb if you ask me.
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Old 2010-01-10, 23:06   Link #1837
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Seeing as how you can look at Medaka's color page as a reward for good sales (vol 1 has also sold over 100,000 for Medaka) the axing of Ane Doki is pretty dumb, considering it was the best selling first volume of the 2009 WSJ mangas. It's not like Kanata, Rilenthal, Neko Wappa and Shingami are going to sell anywhere near as much as Ane Doki.. and they're going to be bottom 5 dwellers as well.

Seems Jump are going to stick with Medaka, it was shown off in that Winter special along with the other hit jump series. Mago is their next big series and it started off as bad as Medaka did...
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Old 2010-01-10, 23:09   Link #1838
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Originally Posted by KLGChaos View Post
Yeah, considering they usually give a months notice to the authors, it's like it was in the bottom for a couple of weeks and then gone. Kind of dumb if you ask me.
It is not about just sales or ratings I guess, but also authors name. Kawashita despite being respected as an artist, has very little authority in WSJ simply because she has infamously high bad/unsuccessful stories production rate (most of her tittles get cut). On the other hand Nisio is riding his wave of popularity as an Bakemonogatari author and one of the best Light Novel authors of the present. So I guess they are more careful at handling his tittle than the one of Kawashita's who keeps producing not particularly successful tittles one after another (except for Ichigo 100%).
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Old 2010-01-11, 06:04   Link #1839
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Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Seeing as how you can look at Medaka's color page as a reward for good sales (vol 1 has also sold over 100,000 for Medaka) the axing of Ane Doki is pretty dumb, considering it was the best selling first volume of the 2009 WSJ mangas. It's not like Kanata, Rilenthal, Neko Wappa and Shingami are going to sell anywhere near as much as Ane Doki.. and they're going to be bottom 5 dwellers as well.

Seems Jump are going to stick with Medaka, it was shown off in that Winter special along with the other hit jump series. Mago is their next big series and it started off as bad as Medaka did...
Actually during it's early run Mago has very high ranking, placing at number three at times, it only dropped around the Tanuki arc. Medaka never even got in the top 5, it doesn't grow that fast. Mago broke 100k in it's second volume, Medaka not so much. I'm not saying it's not successful, but it's still far from having the success that Mago or Toriko enjoy
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Old 2010-01-13, 16:45   Link #1840
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So Medakaīs not getting the axe? I hope the mangakaīll find a way to introduce more comedy in chapters to come, like it used to in the beginning, i donīt mind all the wannabe fighting and how medaka owns their asses, bring back some classics and itīll develop somehow
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