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Old 2009-12-23, 07:31   Link #681
kagato3
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Originally Posted by going_x_crazy View Post

7] Maybe Ichigo meeting Rukia was a fluke. If so, it was a lucky one. But I think Rukia going to K-Town was part of Aizen's plan. Somehow Aizen knew Urahara would hide the hougyoku in her gigai. Obviously, Urahara didn't know this, otherwise he wouldn't have gone along with it. Or at least maybe Urarhara had been counting on Rukia's gigai to fuse with the hougyoku in time, BUT before it could Aizen was one step ahead and he took her back to the SS (he was, after all, responsible for her death sentence). Urahara probably had thought his untraceable gigai as enough to keep Rukia hidden, but he hadn't counted on her trying to go back like she had or that Byakuya and Renji would come after her.
The hougyoku was not in the Gigai it had been hidden away in Rukia BEFORE Urahara left SS. Aizen only figured out where it was when she disapeared and then he set in motion her arrest and death.
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Old 2009-12-23, 23:44   Link #682
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Originally Posted by kagato3 View Post
The hougyoku was not in the Gigai it had been hidden away in Rukia BEFORE Urahara left SS. Aizen only figured out where it was when she disapeared and then he set in motion her arrest and death.
Are you sure about that? I had the impression that it was after... I could be wrong though.
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Old 2009-12-25, 16:47   Link #683
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Are you sure about that? I had the impression that it was after... I could be wrong though.
Yes it was before, when she was just a random kid in rukongai I believe.
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Old 2009-12-27, 17:44   Link #684
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Good thread. I wonder about isshin, myself. I haven't made it though the entire thread, but my theory so far is(i'm half-sleep right now, so let me know if this gets to crack-ish)

Is it possible that Isshin is apart of the RG and a member of the Shiba family?

I think I read somewhere that the RG are all captain class shinigami. if that is so, the RG may have done some of their recruiting from the ranks of SS at one point in time( a long, long time ago). and since the noble families usually have a high SP, it'd be high probability they have a ancestor, so to speak, from those families as memebers of the royal guard. That could explain why Isshin is as powerful as he is, yet no one from SS can draw a line from Ichigo to a past shinigami.

As for the shiba thing, I don't have a strong belief in it. I just think it would explain 1) What happened to the Shiba clan to make them fall from grace. Maybe Isshin's abandoning his post at the RG caused the family of lot of shame and started their descent. and 2) I can't believe similarities between Kaien and Ichigo were made just to be ignored.

that's all for now. maybe i'll have a more refined theory after reading some others.
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Old 2009-12-28, 23:39   Link #685
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Good thread. I wonder about isshin, myself. I haven't made it though the entire thread, but my theory so far is(i'm half-sleep right now, so let me know if this gets to crack-ish)

Is it possible that Isshin is apart of the RG and a member of the Shiba family?

I think I read somewhere that the RG are all captain class shinigami. if that is so, the RG may have done some of their recruiting from the ranks of SS at one point in time( a long, long time ago). and since the noble families usually have a high SP, it'd be high probability they have a ancestor, so to speak, from those families as memebers of the royal guard. That could explain why Isshin is as powerful as he is, yet no one from SS can draw a line from Ichigo to a past shinigami.

As for the shiba thing, I don't have a strong belief in it. I just think it would explain 1) What happened to the Shiba clan to make them fall from grace. Maybe Isshin's abandoning his post at the RG caused the family of lot of shame and started their descent. and 2) I can't believe similarities between Kaien and Ichigo were made just to be ignored.

that's all for now. maybe i'll have a more refined theory after reading some others.
The shiba thing would be cool, but I honestly think they only made the Kaien similarity to stir Rukia's interest in Ichigo. But who knows really? They have givin so little info on the family and on Isshin that only time will tell.
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Old 2009-12-29, 14:30   Link #686
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Originally Posted by Mr.Amazing View Post
The shiba thing would be cool, but I honestly think they only made the Kaien similarity to stir Rukia's interest in Ichigo. But who knows really? They have givin so little info on the family and on Isshin that only time will tell.
It would really surprise me, if Ichigo and Isshin are NOT part of the Shiba Clan. Ichigo and Kaien are not the only ones resembling to one another.

Spoiler for size:


And it would also give a good explanation, why Ichigo has such a ridiculous potential in terms of reiatsu.
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Old 2009-12-29, 18:37   Link #687
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Originally Posted by Kurohitsugi View Post
It would really surprise me, if Ichigo and Isshin are NOT part of the Shiba Clan. Ichigo and Kaien are not the only ones resembling to one another.

Spoiler for size:


And it would also give a good explanation, why Ichigo has such a ridiculous potential in terms of reiatsu.
There's not much resemblance there you know

1.Look at their eyes : two totally different shapes. Also Ganryuu (thats his name
rite?) has long eyelashes and thicker eyebrows
2.Their faces are differently shaped
3. Their skin complexion is totally different!!!

Its not fair to say Isshin is part of the Shiba clan just cuz he sorta resembles Ganryuu at a glance
However its totally possible .. I'm just sayin... But to be fair since u came up with a suggestion I have to come up with one ...
Ummmmmmm.. gosh I feel silly now I cant think up one ..... Sigh I know I refused to go back there but it seems we must have to !!
*Inner self: Leila NOOO*
..... perhaps we missed sumtin
*Inner self: say it aint soo!!*
Wat if .... Isshin was an RG??
*Inner self: You Traitor!!!*
Ouch.... well neways boy and girls wat hav we missed......
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Old 2009-12-29, 18:46   Link #688
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There's not much resemblance there you know

1.Look at their eyes : two totally different shapes. Also Ganryuu (thats his name
rite?) has long eyelashes and thicker eyebrows
2.Their faces are differently shaped
3. Their skin complexion is totally different!!!
i'm gonna have to disagree with you on that.
the eyes are the only real difference between the two. the other prominent facial characteristics look pretty much the same to me (keep in mind isshin's pic is straight on while ganju is looking to the side somewhat). different standards of personal grooming don't really apply.
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Old 2009-12-29, 19:21   Link #689
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my thoughts on the "Isshin is a Shiba clansman" theory:

Isshin lost his powers 20 years ago
->Urahara was involved
->Kuukaku said she worked together with Urahara/Yoruichi in the past

Kuukaku treats her male family members just as brutally as Isshin does

perhaps Kubo's inspiration: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiba_clan

...

doesn't sound too far fetched, on the plus side we could see Ganju making a comeback with a priceless face when he learns he is Ichigo's cousin or something but truth is I would actually prefer a more surprising and more original twist(with heavy Quincy involvement, too bad Ryuuken is too young to have fought during the genocide)
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Old 2009-12-29, 21:02   Link #690
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well we already had a named quincy that was involved in the genocide (i think anyway). uruyu's grandpa or whatever. ryuuken and isshin were certainly around during that staged attack/capture/torture. you might even be able to argue that it was that event (or directly related events) that led to isshin going into hiding.
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Old 2009-12-30, 01:54   Link #691
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well we already had a named quincy that was involved in the genocide (i think anyway). uruyu's grandpa or whatever. ryuuken and isshin were certainly around during that staged attack/capture/torture. you might even be able to argue that it was that event (or directly related events) that led to isshin going into hiding.
I've noticed one of the biggest issues with isshin is the timeline. He's only been "human" for 20 years. Yet he knows Urahara, that has been banished for about 100 years. He knows Ryuuken(who doesn't seem one to boast about being a Quincy to anyone) is a quincy. He knows of Aizen, granted he could have learned of that from Urahara, but the way he spoke during their conversation seemed as though he had first hand knowledge of Aizen himself....same with the vizards. He knows all this, but no one in SS know him.


I don't think Isshin lost his powers. I think his gigai was suppose to sap his powers like it was suppose to do with Rukia, but it didn't happen. Hence, Urahara being 'relieved" that Isshin wouldn't have a reason to be upset with him.

I'm still not done with the thread, but anyone think Masaki may be more a factor in this? i don't think she was a totally normal human or blind to what Isshin was. Remember that good luck charm Isshin gave to Ichigo before he left for SS, that eventually ended up saving Kon from Grandfisher's attack? He said that was a gift Masaki.

Maybe some of these people/events he knows of through Masaki? or maybe she is like Orihime?
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Old 2009-12-30, 02:29   Link #692
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I've noticed one of the biggest issues with isshin is the timeline. He's only been "human" for 20 years. Yet he knows Urahara, that has been banished for about 100 years. He knows Ryuuken(who doesn't seem one to boast about being a Quincy to anyone) is a quincy. He knows of Aizen, granted he could have learned of that from Urahara, but the way he spoke during their conversation seemed as though he had first hand knowledge of Aizen himself....same with the vizards. He knows all this, but no one in SS know him.
was he living as a human for only 20 years? i'm not sure an exact time was said (though it is at least as long as ichigo is old).
him knowing urahara isn't really a big deal especially since isshin is apparently in hiding (or maybe also banished).
ryuuken is a powerful, well trained quincy. he didn't always shun it.
first hand knowledge of aizen, urahara, and the vizards could easily be explained if he was the unnamed kenpachi captain from 100 years ago. also, we don't really know if anyone from SS knows him as the only person from SS that we have seen actually meet him is rukia.

however, i guess isshin couldn't have been involved much (or at all) with the incident with uruyu's grampa since it happaned when uruyu was around (about 8-ish?) so, since ichigo is about the same age, isshin would have had to been already living as a human.
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Old 2009-12-30, 16:07   Link #693
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ichigo and ganju sure act like they're brothers or something, what with all the fights they get into, it would be a funny scene to see their reactions.

Isshin explaining to Ichigo and Ganju "So you see, the two of you are brothers"
Ichigo and Ganju look at each other "What, him? No way!"
Then the two of them start fighting with each other and Kukaku beats the crap out of them
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Old 2009-12-30, 19:25   Link #694
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kamyu View Post
well we already had a named quincy that was involved in the genocide (i think anyway). uruyu's grandpa or whatever. ryuuken and isshin were certainly around during that staged attack/capture/torture. you might even be able to argue that it was that event (or directly related events) that led to isshin going into hiding.
Ishida's grandfather is also too young unless Qunicies become really old(the genocide took place 200 years ago).

Isshin lost his powers 20 years ago while the capture must have happened about 10 years ago(Ishida is now ~15 iirc but trained with his grandfather at young age), so yeah they were around but it's probably not the reason why he is not with ss anymore.
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Old 2009-12-30, 21:04   Link #695
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ichigo and ganju sure act like they're brothers or something, what with all the fights they get into, it would be a funny scene to see their reactions.

Isshin explaining to Ichigo and Ganju "So you see, the two of you are brothers"
Ichigo and Ganju look at each other "What, him? No way!"
Then the two of them start fighting with each other and Kukaku beats the crap out of them
keep in mind that ganju, kukaku, and kaien are all siblings and that they've been around over 100 years when you want to make ichigo his brother. something like cousins would be more likely imo.

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Ishida's grandfather is also too young unless Qunicies become really old(the genocide took place 200 years ago).
well they took the time to think up that ability where they wrap their body in spirit threads to keep moving. it could probably be used to keep the body going longer than normal. though 200 years would be pushing it i guess. XD
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Old 2010-01-01, 20:21   Link #696
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was he living as a human for only 20 years? i'm not sure an exact time was said (though it is at least as long as ichigo is old).
him knowing urahara isn't really a big deal especially since isshin is apparently in hiding (or maybe also banished).
ryuuken is a powerful, well trained quincy. he didn't always shun it.
first hand knowledge of aizen, urahara, and the vizards could easily be explained if he was the unnamed kenpachi captain from 100 years ago. also, we don't really know if anyone from SS knows him as the only person from SS that we have seen actually meet him is rukia.

however, i guess isshin couldn't have been involved much (or at all) with the incident with uruyu's grampa since it happaned when uruyu was around (about 8-ish?) so, since ichigo is about the same age, isshin would have had to been already living as a human.
When Isshin and Urahara were talking he asked him how if felt to put on the uniform of a shinigami after 20 years. So I'd assume that is when he also decided start living as a human. Knowing how and where to find Urahara when no one even knows how he would know of Urahara isn't something to be overlooked,IMO.

it's been said over and over that the captain kenpachi fought is dead. So that's out the window.lol

The reason I feel no one in SS know of Isshin b/c you'd think if they did, someone would have connected the dots with Ichigo by now. instead everyone's bewildered how a ryoka could be so powerful.
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Old 2010-01-01, 22:38   Link #697
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When Isshin and Urahara were talking he asked him how if felt to put on the uniform of a shinigami after 20 years. So I'd assume that is when he also decided start living as a human. Knowing how and where to find Urahara when no one even knows how he would know of Urahara isn't something to be overlooked,IMO.
well he was able to pop out of his body easily enough now so he could've done much the same 20 years ago. that puts a minimum on his timeline, but not necessarily a maximum.
even rukia knew of urahara (though perhaps not as an ex-captain at first). ikkaku knew of him too (during his fight with ichigo he knew the name). urahara was only banished. he wasn't a hunted criminal. it was even implied that aizen knew exactly where urahara was living since he knew where urahara's senkai gate would open.

Quote:
it's been said over and over that the captain kenpachi fought is dead. So that's out the window.lol
except we don't know who was kenpachi before zaraki or during the period 100 years ago. remember, kenpachi is just a title.
and for that matter, zaraki is a district. the man we call zaraki kenpachi has no actual name (and is more properly/originally "the kenpachi of zaraki").

Quote:
The reason I feel no one in SS know of Isshin b/c you'd think if they did, someone would have connected the dots with Ichigo by now. instead everyone's bewildered how a ryoka could be so powerful.
why? what dots are there to connect if they think he is long dead?
with that thinking, they would be far more likely to conclude that urahara is ichigo's father (and yoruichi his mother?) since soul society knows that he is alive.
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Old 2010-01-02, 00:04   Link #698
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[QUOTE=kamyu;2848973]well he was able to pop out of his body easily enough now so he could've done much the same 20 years ago. that puts a minimum on his timeline, but not necessarily a maximum. [quote]

Doubt he'd need it when he was still in service. 1) aren't those type of gigai illegal? and 2)what purpose would it serve being a shinigami with a riatsu blocking body? Plus, Urahara said he's turned his back on it, so i don't think he was pulling a Batman at night.

Quote:
even rukia knew of urahara (though perhaps not as an ex-captain at first). ikkaku knew of him too (during his fight with ichigo he knew the name). urahara was only banished. he wasn't a hunted criminal. it was even implied that aizen knew exactly where urahara was living since he knew where urahara's senkai gate would open.
They knew of him b/c of his history in SS, which IMO makes it all the more weird they(namely Rukia) know of kisuke from 100 years ago, but not Isshin.


Quote:
except we don't know who was kenpachi before zaraki or during the period 100 years ago. remember, kenpachi is just a title.
and for that matter, zaraki is a district. the man we call zaraki kenpachi has no actual name (and is more properly/originally "the kenpachi of zaraki").
Yeah, I know it's really suppose to be Kenpachi of Zaraki....
Wait, I thought we were talking about the captain? LOL I didn't know Zaraki actually killed someone or not for that title. I just remember him saying the strongest took the name kenpachi, so he began calling himself that.


Quote:
why? what dots are there to connect if they think he is long dead?
with that thinking, they would be far more likely to conclude that urahara is ichigo's father (and yoruichi his mother?) since soul society knows that he is alive.
Not necessarily. although it became obvious pretty fast who in the real world was helping him.

I guess i should point out I was looking at this from the view of what if Isshin was RG. it may better explain my wondering.

Last edited by Submerged; 2010-01-02 at 00:19.
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Old 2010-01-02, 01:02   Link #699
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Doubt he'd need it when he was still in service. 1) aren't those type of gigai illegal? and 2)what purpose would it serve being a shinigami with a riatsu blocking body? Plus, Urahara said he's turned his back on it, so i don't think he was pulling a Batman at night.
once every 20 years or so isn't even remotely "pulling a batman at night" and none of that contradicts the possibility that he was in hiding/living as a human for more than 20 years.


Quote:
They knew of him b/c of his history in SS, which IMO makes it all the more weird they(namely Rukia) know of kisuke from 100 years ago, but not Isshin.
it isn't weird at all. like i said, rukia initially didn't know urahara as a captain, just as a shopkeeper with connections, and she is the only one who has met isshin.
since she didn't know one, it isn't unbelievable that she doesn't know the other.



Quote:
Yeah, I know it's really suppose to be Kenpachi of Zaraki....
Wait, I thought we were talking about the captain? LOL I didn't know Zaraki actually killed someone or not for that title. I just remember him saying the strongest took the name kenpachi, so he began calling himself that.
err, then who were you talking about?
zaraki is the one who is reported to have killed his predecessor. the unnamed captain from 100 years ago was only reported to have defeated his predecessor. death wasn't mentioned, only a loss.



Quote:
Not necessarily. although it became obvious pretty fast who in the real world was helping him.

I guess i should point out I was looking at this from the view of what if Isshin was RG. it may better explain my wondering.
well you are still left with about the same problem.
ishhin, who they may or may not believe is dead, who they might not even know is missing (depending if the royal guard/family are as separate and secretive as they appear)
or
urahara, who they know is still lurking around in karakura
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Old 2010-01-02, 01:18   Link #700
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zaraki is the one who is reported to have killed his predecessor. the unnamed captain from 100 years ago was only reported to have defeated his predecessor. death wasn't mentioned, only a loss.
Both tousen and Yoruichi said that you must kill the other Captain.
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