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Old 2010-01-02, 23:53   Link #1341
Miraluka
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Join Date: Jan 2009
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He is not magician cause needs to gather mana or telesma
He is not esper cause needs to be good in calculations and actually he sucks at classes and his power is working by itself.
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Old 2010-01-02, 23:56   Link #1342
babohtea
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
He is not magician(needs to gather mana or telesma) nor esper(needs to be good in calculations and his power is working by itself).
Alright, sorry for all of the confusion. Its probably just that hearing details from people who read the light novel in different languages and watching the anime with different subbers created a bunch of facts that don't match up.

I thought he was classified as a level 0 esper from the beginning of the series. Doesn't Tsuchimikado have a "level 0 ability"? Then by that merit Touma should have a "level 0 ability" as well, and his imagine break is not it.
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Old 2010-01-03, 00:01   Link #1343
walt
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just is speculation
can be Right Hand of Touma:
a certain Divine balancer between normal and supernatural in this World?
and when supernatural users's games become too dangerous for Creation
Touma rebalance it for normal
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Old 2010-01-03, 00:14   Link #1344
Miraluka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babohtea View Post
Alright, sorry for all of the confusion. Its probably just that hearing details from people who read the light novel in different languages and watching the anime with different subbers created a bunch of facts that don't match up.

I thought he was classified as a level 0 esper from the beginning of the series. Doesn't Tsuchimikado have a "level 0 ability"? Then by that merit Touma should have a "level 0 ability" as well, and his imagine break is not it.
Level 0 means:
-No power(like Saten Ruiko)
-Undetected abilities(like Tsuchimikado "Nikutai Saisei/Auto Rebirth")

Touma is just a special case, Aleister said something like measuring his brain waves using nanomachines state him very dangerous even more than a LVL5(why? I don't know). And Aleister is hiding this fact to the whole city.
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Old 2010-01-03, 00:50   Link #1345
shmaster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Okay, so the description of Dark Matter is suppose to be able to change the properties of any particle it comes into contact with... So maybe there's a previous limitation?

Then White Wings mode allows him to rewrite it completely?

Accelerator = Control Anything
Kakine = Create Anything

Going down that line, maybe in the future, Awaken Imagine Breaker = Destroy Anything
Okay, Kakine's power works by creating new matter that supposedly don't exist.
Accelerator's reflection automaticaly filters out whatever that is considered dangerous to Accelerator, the process is unconsciouss so Accelerator is always protected.
But how is something that supposedly never should have existed can be filter out. You have no way to tell whether it is dangerous or not. You don't even know what is it to reflect. So Kakine penatrates the reflection by changing sun light into killer ray.
But once Accelerator includes the effect of Dark Matter into his own calculation process, he can reflect what Kakine throws at him just fine. He even took over the vector of Kakine's wings and have Kakine got stabbed by his own wings. And Accelerator did this all without Black Wings. When Accelerator got into Black Wings, he just pounds Kakine with unknown vectors in a one way slaughter. Kakine doesn't even have a chance to use his awakened power.
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Old 2010-01-03, 02:40   Link #1346
BlueDo
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He is technically an esper.
Common assumption is that Imagine Breaker is hindering him from performing ESP or Magic.
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Old 2010-01-03, 02:51   Link #1347
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shmaster View Post
Okay, Kakine's power works by creating new matter that supposedly don't exist.
Accelerator's reflection automaticaly filters out whatever that is considered dangerous to Accelerator, the process is unconsciouss so Accelerator is always protected.
But how is something that supposedly never should have existed can be filter out. You have no way to tell whether it is dangerous or not. You don't even know what is it to reflect. So Kakine penatrates the reflection by changing sun light into killer ray.
But once Accelerator includes the effect of Dark Matter into his own calculation process, he can reflect what Kakine throws at him just fine. He even took over the vector of Kakine's wings and have Kakine got stabbed by his own wings. And Accelerator did this all without Black Wings. When Accelerator got into Black Wings, he just pounds Kakine with unknown vectors in a one way slaughter. Kakine doesn't even have a chance to use his awakened power.
Ahhh...Thanks for clearly that up, I thought he only defeated Kakine after activating Black Wing mode. So in other words White Wing's ability was never revealed? Also, what does 'unknown vectors' mean exactly ? In the first place, how does it help Accelerator defeat Kihara?

Quote:
Originally Posted by babohtea View Post
Okay, so he is an esper.
Imagine Break is not his esper power.
Therefore he has some other potential (or pitifully weak) esper power along with his imagine break?

OR -
Does Imagine break make it impossible for him to cast magic, so therefore he is neither esper or magician but also unable to cast magic?
Imagine Breaker is an unknown power, though in my opinion, it's been hinted to be Angelic/Divine in nature... Yes, thats different from Magic. We can assume he's an esper because he went through the program, it's just that he doesn't have any visible powers (Because of Imagine Breaker or other reasons).

He can't cast spells because of-

A) Imagine Breaker.
B) He's an Esper.
C) He has no knowlegde of magic.

And according to Index, messing around with magic in an half-assed manner is VERY dangerous.
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Old 2010-01-03, 04:39   Link #1348
tsunade666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Ahhh...Thanks for clearly that up, I thought he only defeated Kakine after activating Black Wing mode. So in other words White Wing's ability was never revealed? Also, what does 'unknown vectors' mean exactly ? In the first place, how does it help Accelerator defeat Kihara?

.
First I thank shmaster for clearing up the idea on kakine.

So his just a monster even without the wings. He utterly pound kakine even if his awaken. Too bad his awaken form isn't even a help instead it leads to his defeat. What a lame one getting stab by your own wing.

And knowing the psycho when he awakens he slaughter to poor guy. Mashing it and pondering it to mince meat.

About the black wings mode. Its an unknown vector because its unknown ( no clue yet or what so ever of what it is ) In vol 12 the plasma or wind attack of accelerator shouldn't have work against kihara but in vol 13 it work. It's due to that its a lot faster and too kihara's surprised I think his stunned with accelerator wings for his brains to even start understanding that its his doomed.

So I still think its just your ordinary power up thing unless someone explain it more but for now their is no much detail except that it create a vector that shouldn't have exist.

EDIT:
I forgot about touma but his technically esper just like what chaoz says because he undergo the brain altering method that allows one to become an esper but due to imagine breaker his esper ability wouldn't show.

His detected level 0 because of imagine breaker being its also his ability but maybe he has another.

His been labeled more dangerous than level 5 according to crowley but the up side down guy is too secretive to even tell why.
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Old 2010-01-03, 08:45   Link #1349
Miraluka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Imagine Breaker is an unknown power, though in my opinion, it's been hinted to be Angelic/Divine in nature... Yes, thats different from Magic. We can assume he's an esper because he went through the program, it's just that he doesn't have any visible powers (Because of Imagine Breaker or other reasons).
If we take shmaster's words about Kamijou(the person higher than God), he and his power should be divine in nature.
What if the nature of the right hand is the word of God?.
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Old 2010-01-03, 09:31   Link #1350
tsunade666
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the word of god is Christ.

it's what in the mass always said. "The word made flesh and dwelt among us".

I don't like the idea for touma being a divine being.... really I don't like it.
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Old 2010-01-03, 09:39   Link #1351
Miraluka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
the word of god is Christ.

it's what in the mass always said. "The word made flesh and dwelt among us".

I don't like the idea for touma being a divine being.... really I don't like it.
Christ's life in the Earth ended in tragedy. If Touma is a divine being born as human, sure he has a big problem, his bad luck.
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Old 2010-01-03, 10:18   Link #1352
Plant42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
If we take shmaster's words about Kamijou(the person higher than God), he and his power should be divine in nature.
What if the nature of the right hand is the word of God?.
I think his right hand power is somehow related to "Lucifer".
His name has been mentioned in vol.13, and the fact that Fianma needs IB to accomplished his purpose(lets think about Michael(Fianma) and Lucifer rivalry).
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Old 2010-01-03, 11:01   Link #1353
Miraluka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plant42 View Post
I think his right hand power is somehow related to "Lucifer".
His name has been mentioned in vol.13, and the fact that Fianma needs IB to accomplished his purpose(lets think about Michael(Fianma) and Lucifer rivalry).
And if I'm not wrong Fiamma's power is the same power Michael used to seal the Lord of Hell.
Btw, Touma is not a bad guy, to the point he helps the people who tried to kill him before(like Quetzal) ... he is more a human with the Christ's complex.

Ah, if you mean things related to demons I think Index is close to become a demon god, the majority of the books in her mind are pagans and sure many demonic texts....still I wonder why only she can deal with those magic grimoires.
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Last edited by Miraluka; 2010-01-03 at 11:19.
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Old 2010-01-03, 12:21   Link #1354
LastResolve
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if touma is an esper then he cant cast magic since his body will be ripped apart
but even if he isnt his right hand is auto wich means it will cancel the supernatural
effect
my gues is that destroying divine and blessings leads me to the opposite of an angel maybe touma is a fallen angel or something else

also about level 0's a person is level 0 cuz his power cant be messured for example accelarators redirection can be measured with the speed he can redirect subjects misaka's with volts kuroko's with range in the other hand imagine breaker and auto rebirth isnt messurable
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Old 2010-01-03, 12:35   Link #1355
walt
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spec: Touma just a high rank angel -why not?
he's kind and attractive person with bad luck - suitable fate for angel in human body)
if he's Lucifier he must everytime corrupt all around
if he's Christ Itself he should Rule by Word as He did according Bible
but there is not anything similar
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Old 2010-01-03, 12:53   Link #1356
Miraluka
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Somehow the people who met with Touma got their lives changed, all of them have heard his lectures.
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Old 2010-01-03, 13:16   Link #1357
walt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
Somehow the people who met with Touma got their lives changed, all of them have heard his lectures.
Christ haven't ever "bad luck" "all was as He planned"
so want winged Touma! :3
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Old 2010-01-03, 13:45   Link #1358
babohtea
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Hmm, sorry if this has been obvious but this just dawned on me:

In this world, are all of the secular governments are like "puppet" governments actually run by magicians/espers or are the "normal people" kept in the dark about all of this?
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Old 2010-01-03, 13:49   Link #1359
Miraluka
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Can you say he didn't have bad luck knowing that he was going to be betrayed and next executed by the humans he is going to forgive later for their sins???
Remember he was scared to his fatal destiny and was tortured and humilliated before his death.
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Old 2010-01-03, 15:00   Link #1360
tsunade666
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To aru world are the world of magic and science. It depends on the country where you at.
In Europe which is dominated by high believers the government their are just for front. The real leaders are the church even if the royal families has power. They can't win against the church.

And in asia where the religion are a mass too but having different ones are the problem. Specially in japan with their high technology. The science their is soo advance that he scientist are the leaders or pioneers of the country.

And when did people get the idea that touma is Christ and Lucifer?..........

People stop with your delusions I don't want Imagine Breaker to do the trick of destroying your genso.

I think a fallen angel and a demon is already to bizzare. For me his just a kid that has a terrible luck that happens to be good and been dragged by his twisted fate.
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