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Old 2010-01-03, 16:41   Link #1361
babohtea
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I see. The world is kind of weird. I guess part of the world lives semi-normally. I mean, Touma's family all knew about Academy City, so the world of espers must not be a secret to everyone else (science). I guess the magic society is more hidden in parts of the world, but the esper society is not?
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Old 2010-01-04, 04:37   Link #1362
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The esper's aren't really that local or public to all. When index meet touma she didn't believe it and like touma he didn't believe in magic. Its just that a man of science is a man of science and like magic. They didn't interact with each other.

The esper are public to japan. Being a advance city where your children will be turned into espers. BUT their is no other facility like it. Its the only one in the world. Even if its localized if its only one and not many are okay with it. Turning your child into biological weapons.

As for magic. They tend to be a little secretive. Working like the hands of god. Doing their mission in a bit secretive way. But they are all known to be workers of god. I'm not sure if everyone knows that they are also mages.

As for espers are rare the city trained you to become one. And the people who can't become an esper leads to magic.
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Old 2010-01-04, 18:17   Link #1363
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Always thought of Touma as a counter balance to the magic and sience stuff in the world and without him the world would fall apart.
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Old 2010-01-04, 19:17   Link #1364
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Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
And when did people get the idea that touma is Christ and Lucifer?..........
I didn't mean that, I tried to say Touma can be the same nature.

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Originally Posted by RPNS View Post
Always thought of Touma as a counter balance to the magic and sience stuff in the world and without him the world would fall apart.
Since Touma got involved with the magic side a lot and is taking care of Index he is considered for some organizations a menace to the balance between the magic and the science but for me he is one who protects it with his actions.
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Old 2010-01-04, 20:47   Link #1365
RPNS
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I didn't mean that, I tried to say Touma can be the same nature.


Since Touma got involved with the magic side a lot and is taking care of Index he is considered for some organizations a menace to the balance between the magic and the science but for me he is one who protects it with his actions.
I have a felling that the Touma that was understude his powers and maybe had some guidlines he needed to follow. Thus the role of counter balance

After the the Index incidente he is the same as us wondering how in the hell he got that sort of power
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Old 2010-01-05, 07:35   Link #1366
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First I thank shmaster for clearing up the idea on kakine.

So his just a monster even without the wings. He utterly pound kakine even if his awaken. Too bad his awaken form isn't even a help instead it leads to his defeat. What a lame one getting stab by your own wing.

And knowing the psycho when he awakens he slaughter to poor guy. Mashing it and pondering it to mince meat.

About the black wings mode. Its an unknown vector because its unknown ( no clue yet or what so ever of what it is ) In vol 12 the plasma or wind attack of accelerator shouldn't have work against kihara but in vol 13 it work. It's due to that its a lot faster and too kihara's surprised I think his stunned with accelerator wings for his brains to even start understanding that its his doomed.

So I still think its just your ordinary power up thing unless someone explain it more but for now their is no much detail except that it create a vector that shouldn't have exist.

EDIT:
I forgot about touma but his technically esper just like what chaoz says because he undergo the brain altering method that allows one to become an esper but due to imagine breaker his esper ability wouldn't show.

His detected level 0 because of imagine breaker being its also his ability but maybe he has another.

His been labeled more dangerous than level 5 according to crowley but the up side down guy is too secretive to even tell why.
Thanks for the explaination So a vector that shouldn't exist is literally something that not even the characters know huh...

My turn to speculate some crack-theory, here's an idea- Assuming Touma has an Esper power that is being supressed by his Imagine Breaker, which is a Divine power and probably this Holy Stone that Fiamma is looking for, then the only way to see this power is by removing Imagine Breaker...

... Which would mean cutting off his right hand, something that did actually happen. Could it be that the Dragon that appeared from his bloody limp be a portion of his Esper power? Perhaps it's this power that is more dangerous than a Level 5, rather than Imagine Breaker?

An interesting trivia for those people who speculated that Touma might be a fallen angel, Lucifer was sometimes refered to as the [Dragon] (Among other things).
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Old 2010-01-05, 11:50   Link #1367
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we are sure that touma had imagine breaker from his birth since his father was saying how unlucky he was
maybe he was already an esper from birth like accelarator i dont think he will have double powers so my gues is that imagine breaker cancelled the effects of the machine (since it creates supernatural effects on people)
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Old 2010-01-05, 14:33   Link #1368
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mikoto is an esper since birth too. She's been level 1 since back then and only difference is I think accelerator is level 5 since child and touma since birth had the holy stone inside his fist.

Is it a divine gift or a punishment? or just a plain balances the world or guardian of time and space.

Isn't the dragon the result of aurelious mental break down and pissing his pants due to touma's over the limit scary face?

The dragon or rather the one who made it is aurelious himself.

And scrapping the right arm is not a good idea. That would attract more girls on his side.
I mean just thinking of his pity state. the girls would want to protect him but still the guy ended up being a shield but this time his toast if he doesn't have his IB and that will totally result on good ending. We got to see a burial of a hero with only GIRLS as the visitor ( styl and the other are to minor you wouldn't get to see them in the crowd )
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Old 2010-01-05, 17:55   Link #1369
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actually the whole izzard thing was wierd i mean we arent sure if IMB was still in use after he lost his arm or if it was izzard that was doing it
about i dont think IMB has anything to do with time and space
divine gift isnt since it cancels the blessings of god
if it was used in christianity long ago that means something happened and they dont have it now perhaps something that would make people panic about it so they kept it a secret for centuries
balancing the World i dont think so i mean aleistar said its dangerous i think there is more to IMB than just cancelling supernatural effects
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Old 2010-01-05, 19:17   Link #1370
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Izzard is doing it. His though is soooo messed up that his delusions are getting destroyed by himself. Its just like when your on the verge of mental break down.

I mean just imagine it. You slice a person's hand and his still ecstatic with it. Laughing it out loud. Any sane person will turn insane in that kind of situation. And I think in the anime. The way they show how it happen is been downsize like what happen to styl. I heard it that he exploded and turn into stars.

And IB has nothing to do with time and space. Its just fun and a good add on. Don't take it seriously.

And if you ask me the real nature of IB is it cancels all out. It just turn up to that touma still considers the things around him real. What if he starts thinking that the world around him is also just an illusion. Then the IB will start erasing it. And if IB works just like an esper ability which turns your illusions into reality. Then the canceling out the supernatural phenomenon is just what touma still thinks.

The thing that proves it is because it can't cancel out the world itself or the ryumaku where the souls return or gather and I'm not sure myself but I think its the thing that surrounds the world. Guiding the living and dying through cycle of rebirth and death. ( not sure of what I'm babbling about ) Too me that's a illusions. But touma doesn't cancels it out so it safe to say. He still believes it as a part of the world but what if he start canceling even it. Then what touma thinks of the world?

WHAT DOES HE VALUE AND STILL THINKS AS HIS REALITY OR RATHER EVERYONE'S REALTY >< ?
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Old 2010-01-05, 19:20   Link #1371
Miraluka
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Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
mikoto is an esper since birth too. She's been level 1 since back then and only difference is I think accelerator is level 5 since child and touma since birth had the holy stone inside his fist.
Mikoto discovered her powers when she was like LO.
Accelerator has the curse of the strongest since his chilhood he already had the power with no idea about it.
Touma has the curse of the bad luck thanks lack of knowledge about his hand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
Isn't the dragon the result of aurelious mental break down and pissing his pants due to touma's over the limit scary face?

The dragon or rather the one who made it is aurelious himself.
That was the opinion of Styl. Is true that Aureolus called him Touma a monster but a dragon? its questionable.
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Old 2010-01-05, 19:24   Link #1372
tsunade666
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They show it when she was just a child that she has the power of a level 1 but even so the scientist still took a liking to her. Their couldn't be just one electro master to begin with. But why her? is she special. She's just a level 1 and their could be stronger one than her. Then why use her for the radio system. So it could be safe to assume that since birth mikoto has the ability to do it.

Being born with the ability gives you a label of special.

Well dragon is scary and touma is scary ( if your a guy ).
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Old 2010-01-05, 19:25   Link #1373
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And if you ask me the real nature of IB is it cancels all out. It just turn up to that touma still considers the things around him real. What if he starts thinking that the world around him is also just an illusion. Then the IB will start erasing it. And if IB works just like an esper ability which turns your illusions into reality. Then the canceling out the supernatural phenomenon is just what touma still thinks.
But since his memories got destroyed he started to be more credule to magic and espers powers with the exceptions of concepts like angels and God.
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Old 2010-01-05, 19:33   Link #1374
tsunade666
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Well losing his memories has a good side effect. It means he will lose all of his sad past. And what if their is a secret to his past. That has been kept a secret. And thanks to memory destruction he doesn't remember it anymore.

And in those sad past. The magic side or science side is involve.

But since he meet index and he didn't believe in magic it safe to say. That he doesn't know magic but what if he didn't see it as magic or rather what if their is a sad past that occur but the cause is unknown and the roots are on magic or science.

If he has his memories or rather just an amnesia. Even if he sees a familiar being or rather a familiar scene. It wouldn't trigger a the sad past that had been kept secret. But thanks to memory destruction those options are canceled out.

Sad past are sad pat and it what makes us now. But he has no past or what so ever due to memory destruction.

So I think his present is ZERO > <

with it his way of thinking is just what he could see or experience from their on and the past wouldn't be a do a thing.
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Old 2010-01-05, 19:40   Link #1375
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Honestly tsunade666 I think your theories are a bit too speculative. I mean, with how inconsistent the author or Index has been so far, its quite possible it could go that way, but I *think* the series becomes more consistent later on (anyone who's read ahead can verify?)

Just watching the anime raised so many exceptions to the rules that I began to think it was as bad as some parts of bleach/naruto. Hopefully it gets better.

Also, I'm pretty sure his past is pretty well established by the arc with his dad.
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Old 2010-01-05, 19:45   Link #1376
Miraluka
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Well losing his memories has a good side effect. It means he will lose all of his sad past. And what if their is a secret to his past. That has been kept a secret. And thanks to memory destruction he doesn't remember it anymore.
Yeah for him is better since his father explained to him about his past and looks like he doesn't care about his memories and the only thing he worries is keep the secret because he doesn't know how is going to explain why he did it.

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So I think his present is ZERO > <
Didn't he said it doesn't matter if he has new happy memories waiting in the future?
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Old 2010-01-05, 20:24   Link #1377
tsunade666
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I know because I'm speculating or even guessing could be used. And also I know that it get consisted because I read it but its just too plain to forgot your pass without some cliche thing. Even if he doesn't care for his past well I care for what happen in his past. Maybe it has some clues on the true nature of the imagine breaker. And when did he had the idea that he could cancel out the ability of the others. Did he get into a fight with an ability user then ended up canceling it? But when did it happen. Is is by the time his in the academy city already? touma is the type that always ended up with a trouble or fight that's why his a delinquent but what if he discover it before he even enter academy city. And the reason he entered it to begin with is because his parents think it could help him with his luck but look at what he ended up now. Does his parents prove of this and I think they know it but to be leaving it to their own son to judge it. Well I think they care but what's the point. The guy nearly got himself killed a tons of time. Does in the past it always happen that lead to the point that his parents are used to it. Or rather the last thing about them is in daihaseisa and side story. On the current plot I don't know if they even know their son had gone abroad. Battling wars that he shouldn't be involved with.

The roots for me are important very important. And like I said it could be very speculative maybe because I'm doing it now. Deducing what could happen may lead to the right conclusion but with few clues that had been left and more importantly the guy is oblivious of his past or rather he doesn't care anymore. Well its up to him to do what he wants too.
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Old 2010-01-05, 20:46   Link #1378
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mikoto is an esper since birth too. She's been level 1 since back then and only difference is I think accelerator is level 5 since child and touma since birth had the holy stone inside his fist.
No, neither Mikoto nor Accelerator born with esper power. Both of them gain their powers from the academy city's curriculum.

The natural born esper are called the "Genseki(gemstone)".
There are only almost 50 of them all around the world
Their powers are really strange compare to the academy city's esper and hard to be called as esper power such as IB and Deepblood

The gemstones who appear in the story are Kamijou Touma,Himegami Aisa,Soigita Gunha.
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Old 2010-01-05, 20:52   Link #1379
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It has the gem stones something to do with the holy stone Fiamma wants to get? or Is a different thing?
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Old 2010-01-05, 21:24   Link #1380
babohtea
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No, neither Mikoto nor Accelerator born with esper power. Both of them gain their powers from the academy city's curriculum.

The natural born esper are called the "Genseki(gemstone)".
There are only almost 50 of them all around the world
Their powers are really strange compare to the academy city's esper and hard to be called as esper power such as IB and Deepblood

The gemstones who appear in the story are Kamijou Touma,Himegami Aisa,Soigita Gunha.

I thought Aleister revealed that IB is not an esper power, so Touma's IB should not make him a "gemstone" if he's not an esper at all. (If he is, we have yet to see)

And a question: how did you find that out? Which character reveals that?

Last edited by babohtea; 2010-01-05 at 22:20.
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