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Old 2010-01-02, 01:55   Link #701
kamyu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gin View Post
Both tousen and Yoruichi said that you must kill the other Captain.
tousen only said you have to defeat the previous captain. (chapter 146) the fact that kenpachi went for the kill is a panel later.
i can't find where yoruichi talks about it (other than to say zaraki doesn't have bankai) so i can't say for sure on that one.
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Old 2010-01-02, 12:33   Link #702
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Originally Posted by kamyu View Post
once every 20 years or so isn't even remotely "pulling a batman at night" and none of that contradicts the possibility that he was in hiding/living as a human for more than 20 years.
It contradicts "turning your back" on something if you're still going to do it every now and then, and what sense would it make for isshin to be a shinigami every 20 years or so?



Quote:
it isn't weird at all. like i said, rukia initially didn't know urahara as a captain, just as a shopkeeper with connections, and she is the only one who has met isshin.
since she didn't know one, it isn't unbelievable that she doesn't know the other.
if Rukia and others didn't know of Urahara's past in SS, Ikkaku wouldn't have made the face he made when he heard Ichigo say his name. Everyone knows who/what Urahara was.


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err, then who were you talking about?
zaraki is the one who is reported to have killed his predecessor. the unnamed captain from 100 years ago was only reported to have defeated his predecessor. death wasn't mentioned, only a loss.
You went from talking about the captain he killed to the reason why he is called Kenpachi. Those were two different fights. I don't know if he killed someone to become "Kenpachi", but he did kill a captain to become captain.




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well you are still left with about the same problem.
ishhin, who they may or may not believe is dead, who they might not even know is missing (depending if the royal guard/family are as separate and secretive as they appear)
or
urahara, who they know is still lurking around in karakura
If he's RG, "they" who? RG and Gotei 13 function on 2 different levels. We don't know if they know who all is RG or vice versca. I doubt they even care. However, that would still leave the question of how Isshin knows the things he knows.
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Old 2010-01-02, 12:38   Link #703
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Submerged View Post





If he's RG, "they" who? RG and Gotei 13 function on 2 different levels. We don't know if they know who all is RG or vice versca. I doubt they even care. However, that would still leave the question of how Isshin knows the things he knows.
most likely from Urahara
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Old 2010-01-02, 19:04   Link #704
kamyu
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Originally Posted by Submerged View Post
It contradicts "turning your back" on something if you're still going to do it every now and then, and what sense would it make for isshin to be a shinigami every 20 years or so?
exactly the same sense it made this last time. he used his powers for his own reasons (to protect his family) rather than what soul society told him to do. it doesn't contradict anything.


Quote:
if Rukia and others didn't know of Urahara's past in SS, Ikkaku wouldn't have made the face he made when he heard Ichigo say his name. Everyone knows who/what Urahara was.
ikkaku obviously knew, but rukia certainly didn't seem to. she hasn't been around quite as long and is lower ranked so of course she might not know as much.




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You went from talking about the captain he killed to the reason why he is called Kenpachi. Those were two different fights. I don't know if he killed someone to become "Kenpachi", but he did kill a captain to become captain.
i already know who i was talking about, do you know who you were talking about? ><

me: "..if he was the unnamed kenpachi captain from 100 years ago.."

you: "it's been said over and over that the captain kenpachi fought is dead. So that's out the window.lol"

me: "except we don't know who was kenpachi before zaraki or during the period 100 years ago."

you: "Wait, I thought we were talking about the captain? LOL I didn't know Zaraki actually killed someone or not for that title."

me: "err, then who were you talking about?
zaraki is the one who is reported to have killed his predecessor. the unnamed captain from 100 years ago was only reported to have defeated his predecessor."

Quote:
If he's RG, "they" who? RG and Gotei 13 function on 2 different levels. We don't know if they know who all is RG or vice versca. I doubt they even care. However, that would still leave the question of how Isshin knows the things he knows.
by they i meant soul society, or more specifically the gotei 13. like you said (and like i meant) the gotei 13 likely isn't in the know about what goes on with the royal guard. which means that if anyone (isshin) were to go missing from the royal guard then they wouldn't have any obligation to inform the gotei 13. on the other side however, the royal guard would be obligated to keep at least a cursory watch over the gotei 13 for potential threats and the whole urahara/aizen situation should definitely have been of note.
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Old 2010-01-06, 14:08   Link #705
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My thoughts on the Subject.

Spoiler for Bleach, Isshin Kurosaki:
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Old 2010-01-06, 19:29   Link #706
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Perhaps there is even another section of Shinigami that the Gotei 13, Omnitsuko and the Kido Corps that could revolve around more secretive missions. But then again, that's a large part of what the Omnitsuko does.

I also have a strong belief that the Royal Guard has a power that is beyond the Bankai and doesn't revolve around Hollowfication
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Old 2010-01-07, 03:02   Link #707
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But then why would Aizen seek Hollowfication powers, if there were greater powers than bankai available to Shinigami. Not to mention bankai is "final" release. What else would there be?
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Old 2010-01-07, 03:37   Link #708
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aizen isn't all knowing. he didn't even seem to know about the royal guard initially. he was still dabbling in hollowification when urahra had already perfected it by creating the hogyoku (a feat aizen couldn't duplicate even with another 100 years, instead needing to steal the original).
there very well could be more about shinigami that aizen doesn't know. perhaps a powerup that doesn't come directly from a zanpakuto or perhaps learning additional stages of bankai. byakuya has three stages of bankai at least so i'm sure others could learn multiple stages as well (and the very existence of said stages make the name 'final' seem rather dubious).
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Old 2010-01-07, 03:58   Link #709
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Originally Posted by kamyu View Post
aizen isn't all knowing. he didn't even seem to know about the royal guard initially. he was still dabbling in hollowification when urahra had already perfected it by creating the hogyoku (a feat aizen couldn't duplicate even with another 100 years, instead needing to steal the original).
there very well could be more about shinigami that aizen doesn't know.
I'm glad you brought that up. It seems to me like Aizen has just piggy backed on Urahara's work since day one. Its likely that he stole Urahara's research on Hollowfication. Aizen couldn't create another Hogyoku and he needed Urahara's spell to extract it from Rukia. The entirety of Aizen's plan so far has rellied on copying Urahara. And the fact that Aizen made mistakes when trying to kill Ichigo, Komamura, Momo, and
Spoiler:
makes it clear (at least to me) that Aizen is not the flawless Shinigami he claims to be. It would not surprise me at all if there were higher level Shinigami techniques that Aizen doesn't know about.
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Old 2010-01-07, 13:37   Link #710
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After all, if joining the Royal Guard is considered a Promotion for Captains, then there must be a reason they are more powerful than traditional Captains. It's not like they can just be stronger because they slightly increase their Reiatsu. The strength difference must be comparable to the difference between a Shinigami that has access to their Bankai and those who don't.
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Old 2010-01-08, 21:09   Link #711
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormwhite View Post
But then why would Aizen seek Hollowfication powers, if there were greater powers than bankai available to Shinigami. Not to mention bankai is "final" release. What else would there be?

Quote:
aizen isn't all knowing. he didn't even seem to know about the royal guard initially. he was still dabbling in hollowification when urahra had already perfected it by creating the hogyoku (a feat aizen couldn't duplicate even with another 100 years, instead needing to steal the original).
there very well could be more about shinigami that aizen doesn't know. perhaps a powerup that doesn't come directly from a zanpakuto or perhaps learning additional stages of bankai. byakuya has three stages of bankai at least so i'm sure others could learn multiple stages as well (and the very existence of said stages make the name 'final' seem rather dubious).
I wonder if Isshin has a third release or sumtin :S No thats just silly But like Kamyu said I think its not about the Bankai but the Shinigami himself, the stronger the Shinigami the stringer the Bankai

Oh yeh umm didnt Isshin say Captains cud control the size of their Bankai?? Am i dreaming this??
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Old 2010-01-08, 21:32   Link #712
kamyu
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Oh yeh umm didnt Isshin say Captains cud control the size of their Bankai?? Am i dreaming this??
he was talking about the zanpakuto in general being bloated and basically unusable if you don't control the size, not bankai.

grand fisher was like "look how huge my thang is!"
and isshin was all like "lolz noob /pwn"
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Old 2010-03-08, 10:18   Link #713
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this is my take on who isshin is...

Isshin is an old shinigami captain... he maybe was urahara's predecessor. He also may have helped Urahara and the Vizards move to the real world. That's why he can't return to the Soul Society same as them.

He may have lost his shinigami powers because Urahara gave him a special gigai like rukia's. It was a gigai that eats the spiritual energy of the shinigami thus making him/her human. Therefore, he may have been helping urahara hide the hogyoku before rukia came. That may also explain why Isshin regained his powers back when urahara gave rukia the speial gigai and gave isshin a normal gigai instead.

I also agree with the possibility that Isshin's wife, Masaki, is a relative of Ryuken Ishida. That's why they know each other. They never intended to let Uryu and Ichigo know because of the quincy-shinigami conflict.

Sorry if these have been mentioned in previous posts...

Last edited by raimun; 2010-03-08 at 10:25. Reason: added something
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Old 2010-03-08, 22:08   Link #714
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except that urahara's predecessor was a woman named hikifune.
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Old 2010-03-08, 23:33   Link #715
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I always thought he could have been the previous captain of the 10th division.(among other possibilities) I wonder why this isn't brought up more often? Hitsuguya is the youngest captain after all.
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Old 2010-03-16, 17:26   Link #716
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._. Not that I want to get flamed (which I most certainly will) but I have just been watching the anime over again with my boyfriend and I decided to pay a bit more attention than I perhaps did that first time around, I'll try and keep this information strictly directed towards the anime viewers:

Aizen is after making a "key" into the dimension wherein the "Soul King" resides. This said king and his "Royal Guard" are in a separate dimension then the Seireitei/Soul Society. The Captains Captain, squad 1 leader, told this to Tosheiro and his lieutenant about this information while they were staying at Orihime's in the world of the living.

From all of this, it is very important for you to realize that there are still an elite guard that we have neither seen or heard of in any complete detail. Being as these elite members guard the KING of the entire Soul Society, there's a good chance that they are at least "Captain Level" or high. Which is all Ishiin eluded at, that he was merely captain LEVEL or higher.

It's nearly impossible, given the time line information that has been hashed and rehashed in this thread for Ishiin to have been a captain of the thirteen court guard squads simply due to the Vizards (having sensed his spiritual pressure) to have not recognized his spiritual pressure as being his. That completely nullifies a good amount of time 110 years ago and back. And as for after they departed, Byakuya and Rukia most likely would have recognized his spiritual pressure, or namesake, or kin (Ichigo) if they had known Ishiin in any way.

And Kisuke Urahara? Simple enough that Kisuke would have been the one to make the Gigai he is/has been residing in for the past 20 years. Also note, that while we may not know the complete details of how a gigai functions, we do know that all the shinigami that reside in them continue to eat and what have you, so there's a good chance that the gigai is literally and empty organic body. Most likely fully capable of producing offspring. And nothings to say that Urahara isn't fully capable of making a special request.

::deep breath::

So basically my theory is that Ishiin, while he may have been a captain once a very long time ago- may have been promoted or moved into the ranks of the Royal Guard. Whose sole duty is to protect the king, not the Soul Society- therefore they would have no need to involve themselves with Aizen or anything that would threaten the Soul Society itself.


Flame away.
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Old 2010-03-16, 18:04   Link #717
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Originally Posted by Nakitaa View Post
Flame away.
I doubt you'll get flamed. People might disagree, sure. But that's about it. Friendly debates seem pretty common around here.

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Originally Posted by Nakitaa View Post
Whose sole duty is to protect the king, not the Soul Society- therefore they would have no need to involve themselves with Aizen or anything that would threaten the Soul Society itself.
...at least not yet anyways.
Since Aizen aims to take the Kings throne, one would think they'd have to get involve sooner or later depending on how close he gets to achieving his goal.
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Old 2010-03-17, 09:34   Link #718
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...at least not yet anyways.
Since Aizen aims to take the Kings throne, one would think they'd have to get involve sooner or later depending on how close he gets to achieving his goal.
Mm...I doubt they think he'll make it to them, and I'm sure that because of their duty to protect the king, they will probably wait until the threat is imminent. I think of them as kind of, the last line of defense.
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Old 2010-03-17, 14:43   Link #719
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Mm...I doubt they think he'll make it to them, and I'm sure that because of their duty to protect the king, they will probably wait until the threat is imminent. I think of them as kind of, the last line of defense.
Can't disagree with you there. Like I stated above, they'd have to get involved sooner or later depending on how close he gets. And I can definitely see "later" being the more likely scenario at this rate.
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Old 2010-03-17, 22:08   Link #720
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I personaly am fond of the idea that Ishin from the Royal Guards. It just makes sense for me and explains why he wears his haori on his shoulder like that, why Shinji didn't recognize his Reiatsu, why no one connects the name Kurosaki to any known Captains and why he and Ichigo are so powerful.

I also like the idea that Ishin is from the Shiba clan. Think about it, Ichigo and Kaien share the same looks, Ishin and Ganju share the same looks and Kukkaku and Karin share certain appearance and personality traits.

IT ALL FITS!!!!!!!
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