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Old 2010-01-08, 20:32   Link #1421
Chaos2Frozen
I Am Undone
 
 
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Location: Drangelic, or by a different name...
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
Aiwass is needed for crowley's plan to succeed but the guy is completely neutral to this. And to summon aiwass they need the AIM field. Fuze=Kazakiri is the result of the AIM field and the reason that nearly all the misaka clones are around the world are to increase the range where Aiwass can manifest himself.
I'm still curious as to why Aiwass refers to himself as [DRAGON], what does it mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
And what's level 6 to begin with? level 5 are already super powered and level 6 is absolute power. But according to tree diagram the only one can achieve it is accelerator and it wouldn't be even achievable by ordinary lifespan.

Does level 6 even exist or its just another scam of crowley? knowing the real deal with the misaka clones is for someone to beat the strongest and the experiment to be stop and the clones to be distributed around the globe.
I think what it meant was that Accelerator was the closest canidate to achieve Level 6, not the only. And Assuming it does exist, which I personally think it does, 'Absolute Power' is probably the absolute control over the AIM... Meaning you can make it into whatever you want, just like how Accelerator can already update his AIM.

Anyway, the only way for him in this lifetime now is to defeat 100 Mikotos (he was halfway through the sisters), since that isn't going to happen, the alternative is to defeat something 100 times the power of Mikoto...


Quote:
Originally Posted by LastResolve View Post
btw i heared about kakine's power a lot changing the mater and stuff anything that touches his wings is becoming "new matter" what is that new matter i mean turning stuff into something else would be possible for example asfalt into sand water into ice photons into killer ray's
can he also form subjects as well? his power is kind of mystery
Sunlight into killer rays is the most common example, I myself don't have to creativity to think of more things that he can do

Maybe Oxygen -> Poison gas?
Maybe Water -> Corrosive Acid?

But changing matter into new matter... Does/Can it change the state of the matter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by babohtea View Post
Can somebody elaborate on "downloading AIM"? I also need a better explanation of AIM as well. So far I know its like an aura that surrounds any esper, but it doesn't make sense to "download" an aura.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the AIM that surrounds an Esper is like his personal reality, what we meant by downloading the AIM is that the Esper has direct access to the function of his AIM, meaning he can update and change it.
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Old 2010-01-08, 21:20   Link #1422
giorno
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Anyway, the only way for him in this lifetime now is to defeat 100 Mikotos (he was halfway through the sisters), since that isn't going to happen, the alternative is to defeat something 100 times the power of Mikoto...
enter Fiamma of the right

aren't both of them going to russia after index?

am i the only one who sees fiamma reaching the full extent of his power, only for accelerator to reach level 6 and team up with touma to kick his ass into oblivion?


Quote:
Sunlight into killer rays is the most common example, I myself don't have to creativity to think of more things that he can do

Maybe Oxygen -> Poison gas?
Maybe Water -> Corrosive Acid?
why not just oxygen into some kind of death matter? like something that immediately breaks down the atomic bonds and reduce whatever matter it comes in contact with to its sub-atomic elements?

would accelerator have been able to survive something like that?
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Old 2010-01-08, 21:50   Link #1423
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giorno View Post
enter Fiamma of the right
I'm thinking more along the lines of an Angel...

Quote:
Originally Posted by giorno View Post
aren't both of them going to russia after index?

am i the only one who sees fiamma reaching the full extent of his power, only for accelerator to reach level 6 and team up with touma to kick his ass into oblivion?
Actually, I was thinking of something different.

Fiamma said he needed Index, Sasha, and the Holy Stone from Touma to complete his Holy Right. But likewise, could Imagine Breaker need those same materials to complete itself? So instead of Fiamma getting Imagine Breaker, it's Touma who steals Fiamma's Holy Right to complete his power.


Quote:
Originally Posted by giorno View Post
why not just oxygen into some kind of death matter? like something that immediately breaks down the atomic bonds and reduce whatever matter it comes in contact with to its sub-atomic elements?

would accelerator have been able to survive something like that?
He could now, but yeah Kakine is just as rule breaking as Accelerator.
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Old 2010-01-08, 22:04   Link #1424
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A little off the current discussion, but related to the light novels anyways.

The way that the author consistently introduces new characters to help move the plot and then sidelines the majority of them after their arc is over is slightly annoying. Just reading the novel discussion there are like, what, 10 characters that I have no idea about, while I only get to recognize about 8 out of the 20+ I already know. It almost feels like the author doesn't know how to write about people, but only about super powers.

Anyhow, I'll continue following Index if only because I find the universe its set in to be fascinating. Story wise though, I actually prefer Railgun.
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Old 2010-01-08, 22:04   Link #1425
Miraluka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Anyway, the only way for him in this lifetime now is to defeat 100 Mikotos (he was halfway through the sisters), since that isn't going to happen, the alternative is to defeat something 100 times the power of Mikoto...
To achieve the Level 6, Accelerator needs to defeat about 127 level 5s in order to develop his abilities in conditionated battles. If Accelerator was in the halfway, forced himself to the limit against Kihara(only 15 minutes), Kakine(awakened) and Aiwass. Shouldn't Accelerator be more close to be a Level 6?

Quote:
Originally Posted by giorno View Post
enter Fiamma of the right

aren't both of them going to russia after index?

am i the only one who sees fiamma reaching the full extent of his power, only for accelerator to reach level 6 and team up with touma to kick his ass into oblivion?
No, Fiamma is searching for Sasha Kruezev.

Quote:
Originally Posted by giorno View Post
why not just oxygen into some kind of death matter? like something that immediately breaks down the atomic bonds and reduce whatever matter it comes in contact with to its sub-atomic elements?

would accelerator have been able to survive something like that?
Again with topic "how to kill an Accelerator"
The power you have mentioned is pretty close to the power of the 4th level 5.

@babothea: Don't worry many characters who appears along the 19 volumes + 2 side stories are developed in their time.
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Old 2010-01-08, 22:16   Link #1426
babohtea
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Even Aisa? D: That girl has got to have one of the least developed stories. All we know is that she doesn't like killing people (yay) and she kills vampires by existing (boo). Hahaha

Well I meant that by introducing so many characters at once the reader can't actually feel like s/he knows them all. I'd rather have a well-developed cast of 5 rather than an army of stock characters, if you know what I mean.
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Old 2010-01-08, 22:29   Link #1427
Miraluka
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Well is the universe of the author and he/she does what she/he wants to do, maybe cause for the author the world doesn't spin around a little number of characters. And if you look at the material there is enought to make about tree seasons .

About Aisa... in my opinion, the author jokes with the character, she wanted to have a normal life and she got it, but the consequences were unexpected for her althought she tries to bring some colors to her character she can't because now she is normal.... "be aware of what you wish"
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Old 2010-01-08, 23:07   Link #1428
babohtea
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
Well is the universe of the author and he/she does what she/he wants to do, maybe cause for the author the world doesn't spin around a little number of characters.
I know that. The author have whatever story-telling style s/he wants to have, but it doesn't mean I have to like it. Either way, I'm still along for the ride because I'm interested in the universe of Index.
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Old 2010-01-09, 00:14   Link #1429
Chaos2Frozen
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Drangelic, or by a different name...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
Well is the universe of the author and he/she does what she/he wants to do, maybe cause for the author the world doesn't spin around a little number of characters. And if you look at the material there is enought to make about tree seasons .

About Aisa... in my opinion, the author jokes with the character, she wanted to have a normal life and she got it, but the consequences were unexpected for her althought she tries to bring some colors to her character she can't because now she is normal.... "be aware of what you wish"
IN addition, well I didn't realize it before, but curently Himegami has her Deep Blood powers supressed by the cross she's wearing around her neck. I remember it was shown briefly in the anime when both her and Index were trying to solve Sphinx's flea problem, but was never revealed until I read the first part of Volume 9.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
To achieve the Level 6, Accelerator needs to defeat about 127 level 5s in order to develop his abilities in conditionated battles. If Accelerator was in the halfway, forced himself to the limit against Kihara(only 15 minutes), Kakine(awakened) and Aiwass. Shouldn't Accelerator be more close to be a Level 6?
Well, he defeated one level 5 cause no matter how powerful, Kakine is still only consided a level 5. And Kihara doesn't even have powers, so technically he's a Level 0.
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Old 2010-01-09, 00:41   Link #1430
Marina2
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The best way to create lv6

If they want Lv6 all they have to do is lower the standard of each level. I mean, if they do that, some lv 1 will become lv2 ,some lv2 >>> lv3, some lv3>>>lv4 and some Lv4>> Lv5.

After that, select some of lv5 (may be 1st - 5th) and call them Lv6. That it.

The Level is just "a number to tell how strong of the ability". They can change its rule if they want.
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Old 2010-01-09, 00:49   Link #1431
shmaster
あらゆるものは意味を持たない
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
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To clear up a few thing.

The nature os Kakine's power is even unknown to himself, until he finally saw Accelerator's wings. He realized where the new matters he created came from. This is an imporatnt hint, as it suggests those new matter has an origin somewhere. Also on whether Kakine can change the state of the matter, we have never see him use powers like that. But it does show his power can control mass. And finally, the angelic nature of Kakine's power is described as "He who weilds a piece of heaven that inhabits by the God." As for Accelerator, the angelic nature of his power is described as "He who weilds a piece of power that equates to god."

As for "downloading AIM", Crowley mentioned it slightly by describing Accelerator updating his power as "The process of downloading the data of the AIM Spread Field into the vector controlling device has finally been completed." I interpret this as downloading new software (data from the AIM Field) into the hard ware (Accelerator, the vector controlling device) to to optimize the hardware's functional capacity.

I feel that Lv.6, like its name, SYSTEM, suggests, is turning yourself to be a part of the system. Basically become one with the AIME Field.

BTW, on the topic of how too kill Accelreator, there is two obvious way to do it, but both pretty hard to achieve.
One way of doing it is to mimic Kakine, use something that is completly foreign to Accelerator's understanding thus not included in his reflection filter, and kill him in one hit before Accelerator gets a chance to include whatever that is new to him into his reflection calculation process. Hmm... perhaps Fianma has a chance? Accelerator most certainly have no comprehension at all on magical energies, and Holy Right is certainly powerful enough to end the fight in a single blow.
The second way is to use an attack very complicated I mean, VERY complicated (note, not powerful, but complicated) that it compltely surpasses Accelerator's calculation capacity. After all, he can't reflect things that he can't include into his calculations. Like how Accelerator couldn't reflect the bullet when he is trying to delete the virus in LO's brain as he ran out of hardware memory to start another calculation process. But then, if you are using this method, if have to kill him before he activates black wings, because well, once Accelerator connects himself to the AIM Field, his calculation capacity is almost limitless.
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Old 2010-01-09, 02:32   Link #1432
Chaos2Frozen
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Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marina2 View Post
The Level is just "a number to tell how strong of the ability". They can change its rule if they want.
Well, then thats kinda pointless isn't it?

The other Levels don't really have specific description ('Strong', 'Great', 'Super') but Lv 6 has always been called the 'Absolute Power'.

Not the same topic, but here's a little trivia. Mikoto's school has Two Level 5s, Forty-seven Level 4s, and the rest are Level 3s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shmaster View Post
To clear up a few thing.

The nature os Kakine's power is even unknown to himself, until he finally saw Accelerator's wings. He realized where the new matters he created came from. This is an imporatnt hint, as it suggests those new matter has an origin somewhere. Also on whether Kakine can change the state of the matter, we have never see him use powers like that. But it does show his power can control mass. And finally, the angelic nature of Kakine's power is described as "He who weilds a piece of heaven that inhabits by the God." As for Accelerator, the angelic nature of his power is described as "He who weilds a piece of power that equates to god."
New data to speculate! We've been focusing so much on Accelerator that we've completely forgotten about the Number 2 guy also plays a part

A separate topic, what is the 'Dark Legacy' that Aleister used?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shmaster View Post
Hmm... perhaps Fianma has a chance? Accelerator most certainly have no comprehension at all on magical energies, and Holy Right is certainly powerful enough to end the fight in a single blow.
That reminds me, I know that Holy Right isn't complete yet, But what has Fiamma used it for? How does it deal damage? I want to know because if his power is similar to Touma's Imagine Breaker, then maybe we can guess that Touma's power-up (If any) would be along that line...

Holy Right + Holy Stone + 103 000 Grimoire + Sasha = ????

Last edited by Chaos2Frozen; 2010-01-09 at 02:54.
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Old 2010-01-09, 04:16   Link #1433
Bordix
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woah, I've got a lot catching up to do...

I've got a question: Hamatsura Shiagi was from Skill-out before, right? It seems the next episodes of Railgun anime is gonna be about skill-out. Is it okay to expect to see him?
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Old 2010-01-09, 04:50   Link #1434
Plant42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
That reminds me, I know that Holy Right isn't complete yet, But what has Fiamma used it for? How does it deal damage? I want to know because if his power is similar to Touma's Imagine Breaker, then maybe we can guess that Touma's power-up (If any) would be along that line...
Speaking of Fianma we can assume how tremendous power his Holy right is
From what he said about Curtana=Original that this level of artifact is still not enough as vessel.
He said "It's probably exploded into pieces, a moment that I transfer my power".

"Curtana=Original" the sword of mercy is an artifact that bear the power of Michael.
It grants the power of Angel leader(Michael)rank to its owner.
The "complete dimension amputation technique system" that activated from this sword is freaking powerful.

That's make the battle against Carissa who bear "Curtana=Original" and her armies become the most epic and largest scale battle as of now.
It's begin with the Necessarius(alongside with Touma,Index, 3rd princess Vilian,kanzaki and all member of Amakusa church) vs Carissa&armies.

Then it's followed by Kaori+Knight leader+Aqua VS Carissa.
but even those three are still no match against her.

And to think that such a powerful artifact is still not be able to withstand Fianma's power.....

Last edited by Plant42; 2010-01-09 at 05:04.
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Old 2010-01-09, 05:20   Link #1435
tsunade666
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how will they beat up a complete fianna?

I don't have much time till later.
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Old 2010-01-09, 05:30   Link #1436
ykf566
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plant42 View Post
Speaking of Fianma we can assume how tremendous power his Holy right is
From what he said about Curtana=Original that this level of artifact is still not enough as vessel.
He said "It's probably exploded into pieces, a moment that I transfer my power".

"Curtana=Original" the sword of mercy is an artifact that bear the power of Michael.
It grants the power of Angel leader(Michael)rank to its owner.
Does that mean Fianna's power is greater than that of an archangel?
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Old 2010-01-09, 06:17   Link #1437
Plant42
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Originally Posted by ykf566 View Post
Does that mean Fianna's power is greater than that of an archangel?
No. the sword has a restriction. It's only grant a power that limits in the land of Great Britain(That's why it can't use outside these areas).
There's no way for it to match the power of true angel himself, why Fianma's Holy right is the ultimate power of Michael it's definitely stronger.

Last edited by Plant42; 2010-01-09 at 06:38.
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Old 2010-01-09, 06:42   Link #1438
tsunade666
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so the sword is like one of those spell used in vol 11. Where its restricted to one country used.
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Old 2010-01-09, 08:24   Link #1439
LastResolve
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Quote:
why not just oxygen into some kind of death matter? like something that immediately breaks down the atomic bonds and reduce whatever matter it comes in contact with to its sub-atomic elements?

would accelerator have been able to survive something like that?
no he woudnt but neither would he himself he could just change the frequency of Photons to one greater than 10^19 Hz and create Radiation Gama but that would be fatal to himself as well... anyway from what i get he can change gases into other gases and stable matter into any other stable matter its similiar to FMA's alchemy in many way's

One more thing is that Misaka's Wings?
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/1133/page27x.jpg
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Old 2010-01-09, 09:12   Link #1440
walt
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don't search the way to kill Accselerator
cause Last Order will cry
and One drop of tears of Last Order may kill one million people!!!
:3
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