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Old 2010-01-13, 13:39   Link #1541
Der Langrisser
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IIRC, didn't Nanoha says in the first series that she feels she's been set apart by her own family and feels like being somehow the "black sheep", even if they didn't want her to feel it that way ?

Anyway, I think there's no age limit to be "emo", it depends on how much pent-up feelings you have, and to how much you can cope with it until having to release the excess. Andy00 gives a very good explanation.

And btw, all the talks about "emonoha" and the "largeness" of the eyes of the character are REALLY TIRING, frankly, some people here, seems to love to make a mountain the size of Olympus Mons out of a molehill.
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Last edited by Der Langrisser; 2010-01-13 at 14:26.
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Old 2010-01-13, 15:26   Link #1542
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Originally Posted by Der Langrisser View Post

And btw, all the talks about "emonoha" and the "largeness" of the eyes of the character are REALLY TIRING, frankly, some people here, seems to love to make a mountain the size of Olympus Mons out of a molehill.
Ugh, at least I'm not the only one who thinks that. It drives me insane.
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Old 2010-01-13, 16:02   Link #1543
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Emonoha is not a stroke of genius. How it was brought up and how it was executed, down to the involved scene, it boiled down to poor writing.

If - Nanoha was at lunch with her friends, Arisa and Suzuka, talking about their purpose in life and their place on Earth, only to have this kind of conversation shrugged off by Suzuka and Arisa, it might have come out better.

Evangelion, while infamous for Shinji screaming on the chair, used a little more subtle mechanism to show Shinji when he was "lost". He stayed in the train, listening to his walkman, until the train hit the terminus and resumed its run. It was subtle, it conveyed lack of purpose and motivation as it should.

Screaming one's lungs out at the sky is not. It makes anyone roll their eyes in disbelief. Especially when said character is nine year old.
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Old 2010-01-13, 16:38   Link #1544
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Originally Posted by Demi. View Post
Ugh, at least I'm not the only one who thinks that. It drives me insane.
But having different opinions on things is what makes a debate so fun!
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Old 2010-01-13, 17:14   Link #1545
Der Langrisser
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It has long stopped to be a debate, to become incessant nitpicking on the same few things, over and over and over again..., constantly rehashing "emonoha" is bad, "large" eyes are bad, isn't a debate, just old shmuck rambling.
There's so much negativity here, I could up with a chainsaw, it seems more like the AS-Nano now serve mostly for its members to spill their discontent.
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Old 2010-01-13, 17:22   Link #1546
Sheba
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Originally Posted by Der Langrisser View Post
There's so much negativity here, I could up with a chainsaw, it seems more like the AS-Nano now serve mostly for its members to spill their discontent.
Oh I got it! I shall now sing the praise of the writing and characterization!
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Old 2010-01-13, 17:39   Link #1547
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But having different opinions on things is what makes a debate so fun!
It was a debate, but now it just gives me a headache. The most recent image I posted, I was on the verge of posting "inb4 large-eyes debate" with it, but I figured there is no way that same debate can be brought up once more...But sure enough, it was. And Emonoha was one page on the entire first chapter -- that page has been discussed more than every other chapter combined.

Sure, I could just ignore the ranting altogether, but it is hard to ignore when it seems to bring up a larger discussion than the movie itself.
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Old 2010-01-13, 18:02   Link #1548
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Originally Posted by Demi. View Post
And Emonoha was one page on the entire first chapter -- that page has been discussed more than every other chapter combined.
Well, despite my initial dislike of her, I have to admit that I'm curious to see how the movie will handle Nanoha and what little we've seen of her personality based off the movie manga. It's probably the most interesting point, for me, is how they're going to handle her sudden emo-ness and what effect it will have on the overall story and her bond with Fate.
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Old 2010-01-13, 18:18   Link #1549
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Well, despite my initial dislike of her, I have to admit that I'm curious to see how the movie will handle Nanoha and what little we've seen of her personality based off the movie manga. It's probably the most interesting point, for me, is how they're going to handle her sudden emo-ness and what effect it will have on the overall story and her bond with Fate.
Interest in that scene is fully approved. The constant negativity is just wearing me down.

Though tbh, I don't expect the movie to have much focus on Nanoha's emo-scenes. I believe they were placed in the manga for a reason. But who knows, she may act differently in certain parts because of what happened in the manga. What I don't think, is that the director intends to change the reason Nanoha wants to become friends (and save) with Fate.
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Old 2010-01-13, 18:23   Link #1550
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[...]how they're going to handle her sudden emo-ness [...]
Once more : this is in no way sudden.
Her distress was there back in S1, she talked about it and you could easily feel that she didn't feel quite well. Her discussion with Arisa and Suzuka also proved, back in S1, that she was pessimistic about her future.
Now, we certainly didn't see her panic and scream like she does in the manga, but it doesn't change anything : instead of having lenghty explanations on Nanoha state of mind, the job is done with one page.
I think that was a wise choice : ).
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Old 2010-01-13, 18:23   Link #1551
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LIVE FIGHTER? multitasking? you cannot multitask with Live Fighter - you need to watch it and drink it all in all its entirety. and wait... you have Red Side?!
Both saido. :3

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For me, it's not even the age, it's the 180 they pull with her personality.
Andy made a reasonable justification for it. However, as Sakuya put it, the handling came across somewhat odd.
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Old 2010-01-13, 18:27   Link #1552
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Originally Posted by Nina.Wolken View Post
Once more : this is in no way sudden.
Her distress was there back in S1, she talked about it and you could easily feel that she didn't feel quite well. Her discussion with Arisa and Suzuka also proved, back in S1, that she was pessimistic about her future.
Now, we certainly didn't see her panic and scream like she does in the manga, but it doesn't change anything : instead of having lenghty explanations on Nanoha state of mind, the job is done with one page.
I think that was a wise choice : ).
It feels sudden to me because within the context of the movie universe, there's no reason for it. In season one she was far from emo about her problems; she didn't know what she wanted to do with her life, but she didn't scream to the heavens about it. It was just something that bothered her. An angst-filled scream for no apparent reason when she has every reason in the world to be happy and admits so is damn sudden to me, compares to season one where she handled it with considerable grace and maturity.
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Old 2010-01-13, 18:32   Link #1553
Sheba
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Even back in S1, Nanoha telling Fate about herself came out as odd to me. I mean, she had a nearly perfect family, with loving parents and siblings, she had good friends, all she lacked was an awesome Onizuka-like teacher.
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Old 2010-01-13, 18:54   Link #1554
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Originally Posted by RadiantBeam View Post
It feels sudden to me because within the context of the movie universe, there's no reason for it. In season one she was far from emo about her problems; she didn't know what she wanted to do with her life, but she didn't scream to the heavens about it. It was just something that bothered her. An angst-filled scream for no apparent reason when she has every reason in the world to be happy and admits so is damn sudden to me, compares to season one where she handled it with considerable grace and maturity.
She was not portrayed as being emo toward her personal problems, but the manga propose another point of view. We get to see scenes we didn't see before and I can perfectly imagine that page (where she scream to the sea) to take place just before the beginning of S1. Once she "evacuated" (that sounds strange orz), she can be back to the very rational Nanoha we get to know through S1.

I also would like to point out that Nanoha had been very emotive (not exactly emo, but not too far) all along S1 with regards to Fate. She pursues her desperately like if her life depended on it. No need to mention last episode either. With such a personality, I'm not surprise that she breaks down in the manga .
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Old 2010-01-13, 18:56   Link #1555
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Originally Posted by Nina.Wolken View Post
With such a personality, I'm not surprise that she breaks down in the manga .
I think it is a surprise as there's no foreshadowing or decent reason for it in the manga, but I digress. In the end, it comes down to personal opinion.
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Old 2010-01-13, 23:31   Link #1556
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"Especially when said character is nine year old. "


....so, you're telling me nine year olds do not express pain over feelings they don't understand? Her maturity was such that she refused to make it other people's problem.

What especially drives me as amusing is looking back at the first season; where every monologue we had from her at the beginning of each episode insists that the ONLY reason she's doing this is for peace. She's a NORMAL girl! REALLY! (She doth protest too much)

She can't possibly...._want_ the power. She can't WANT to be something that the Japanese mindset for women wouldn't ever allow; right?

Remember, traditionally Magical Girls are supposed to be a mistake. "I'm sorry for doing this to you, heroics are needed now. Don't worry, you'll can become a trophy wife just like your male-oriented society insists you should have. If the only males available though aren't as strong as you'll, you'll eventually get to remove your powers forever so you get to be a housewife. Yaaay!

Nanoha: HELL no.
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Old 2010-01-13, 23:53   Link #1557
Nya~n
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YAY 9 YEAR OLD NANOHA IS EMO THIS SHIZ IS TEH AWESUMZ.


there i've said it. are we all happy now?
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Old 2010-01-14, 02:06   Link #1558
Sheba
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Originally Posted by Andy00 View Post
"Especially when said character is nine year old. "


....so, you're telling me nine year olds do not express pain over feelings they don't understand?
They don't express it the way she did in the manga.

It's supposed to make me care for her. But no! It slipped into narm territory, where supposed dramatic moments turned unintentionally comedic. Nanoha screaming at the sky is on the same level as Darth Vader screaming "Nooooooo" at the end of Episode III.

And where the hell did I bring the place of women in Japan? I don't give two shit about it. So your little talk about it just fly over my head in a wooosh full of indifference.

Edit:

I am talking from a WRITING point of view. The fact that you suddenly bring up the pseudosociologic angle in your argument is not sitting well with me.

Last edited by Sheba; 2010-01-14 at 03:45.
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Old 2010-01-14, 06:28   Link #1559
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It feels sudden to me because within the context of the movie universe, there's no reason for it. In season one she was far from emo about her problems; she didn't know what she wanted to do with her life, but she didn't scream to the heavens about it. It was just something that bothered her. An angst-filled scream for no apparent reason when she has every reason in the world to be happy and admits so is damn sudden to me, compares to season one where she handled it with considerable grace and maturity.
Yeah, it's bothersome.

The only 'excuse' i can easily see is that it's the point- Nanoha, in the movie, tries to pretend she is cheerful and happy all the time, because she feels he has it good.

Hell, she *knows* she has it good, and doesn't understand why she shouldn't take things with grace. So she bottles it up until she finds a 'safe' way to release it when no one's looking.

So in some way it was to point out the dichotomy of Movie!Nanoha.

And, yeah, that's looking too much into it.
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Old 2010-01-14, 10:44   Link #1560
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So in some way it was to point out the dichotomy of Movie!Nanoha.

And, yeah, that's looking too much into it.
I'm still baffled as to why they make it such a point with Movie!Nanoha when Series!Nanoha found better ways of handling it, but I can't understand exactly how the writer's mind works. I guess I'll have to wait for the movie to come out and see if it explains anything better.
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