AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Related Topics > Manga & Light Novels > To Aru... Index [LN/M]

Notices

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 2010-01-18, 23:55   Link #1601
Chaos2Frozen
:)
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The Moon that Wizard came from
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
So.. which of them is "mana"?
I assume it's the one converted from life force...
Chaos2Frozen is offline  
Old 2010-01-19, 02:51   Link #1602
shmaster
Hanged Man & Chariot
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
About Kazakiri... Is her AIM field set up to be counter-magic, or is it by nature, any huge amount (like 10000+) of AIM gathered in one place is enough to screw with Telesma? If it's the latter, than wouldn't Accelerator's Black Wings produce the same effect? It is something that taps into the AIM fields right? And with 9000+ Imoutos in the network, it should have the AIM field of at least half of Fuse=Kazakiri.
Yes. Albeit just slightly, Accelerator's existence does disrupt on the prescence of magic. Etzali, who has been using magic all the time to maintain his disguise felt pressured when Accelerator is closed to him.

Basically, the purpose of the AIM is to create an artificial alien world (the imaginary number school sector) to... how do I put it, squeeze out the alien world of magic.
Magic works by borrowing thr laws of an alien world and wrote it into our world through certain formulas. But what happen if we create an artifical alien world and have it cover our world, then there is no room for the laws from the alien world of magic to be written in, and thus those who use magic shall implode.

[spoiler]In theory, you get an Esper/Magician with an AOE type attack and tell them to hit an area with Vent in it. BUT, they don't know that she's there. Anyway, that's just a theory in a perfect world.[/sopiler]

You know what, this might work. Have Vent cought into a large AOE attack by accident. But the person who'll trick the esper/magician to launch the attack might be hit by the Divine Punishement first, as they directly schemed agsint Vent.

As for Accelerator's manipulation of AIM. No, he did not take over Kakine's Dark Matter as in taking over AIM. Rather, he included the entirety of Dark Matter into his vector calculation and took over the control. (which is pretty insane I might add, as Dark Matter is already jamming the laws of reality by itself, and Accelerator is actually able to calculate all the laws that has been rewritten and take control).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Unfortunately, there's rule #2, 'You cannot consider her as a target of an attack'. It counts as atagonizing her.
No, wait. Using hitman might work if they can have the mentality that is the same as Kihara. Kihara only has rthe desire to kill, but he has no target for it. He is there destroying things universally, even if Vent is going to get hit, the spell won't activate because Kihara is indifferent on what he destroy. In other words, Vent is not a target in this case, she is just the same as everything else Kihara feel likes to destroy.
So if the hitman hired did not consider Vent as the target but only think her as some random thing in the path of his goal (could be money, or the pride of his job), he can get her. But you have to be extremly inhuman to have that psychology to think everything is indifferent outside your goal. Hint, the key word is indifferent.

So, basically, Vent has to be the target of the concern in the attacker's mind in order for her spell to work.......
Wait, if we expand on this, perhaps someone who has the "mercy kill" psychology might be able to get her. Because even people like that attack her, they aren't attacking her because they antagonize her.


As for Saints using Telesma.... no, they can't spam spell for free. Having Telesma in them, their power is much higher in quality, but that also burdens them, as they are still human. They'll die if they use their power too much, so they always have a limit. The exception is everyone's favroite superman Aqua, the miracle of the Mary removes such limitation.

In other words, Saints themselves are primary producer of magic power as they have Telesma themsleves. Normal mages are secondary, as they have to borrow their powers from other beings (evoking other gods, using symbolic weapons or idol theory, or refine their powers from other sources like their own life force).
shmaster is offline  
Old 2010-01-19, 03:34   Link #1603
tsunade666
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: In my room
................... Lot of question needs lots of answers.

Mana = isn't it the energy that channeled through the world. Like the mana that trees give or the air or everything that has life. More like a life force. A power that comes from natural resources. But this mana isn't from the caster its like borrowing power from other living creature. But I'm not sure if its only living creature can release mana.

Its a bit different from spirit or ki. Its the power channel from with in your own.

Saints can spam spells maybe just maybe because if they are using the telesma then it shouldn't be a problem or resources. Unlike mana where a dead environment can't provide you aid. If your source of power is divine then it should also be infinite for if we use the term divine it should also refer to GOD who is infinite. Though I'm just using my own view on things here. And if telesma as what other people say the power borrowed from divine then it should be massive and pure. Unlike the other power resources that may had impurity in it. And from what I learn in other stories a higher purity leads stronger power. And normally if its stronger it shouldn't be stable or controllable hence they use instruments or symbols to channel those massive energy. But being a saint that has a favor from god. They can use it at ease. And if you can use that massive energy then it should be a waste on not using it just like a saint being talented using the power of magic given that they can use it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Anyway, so far what we have confirmed about his awakening, is that A) He can update his Redirection to include new factors, and B) In Black Wings mode, He can control Vectors that supposedly don't exist. C) Also In Black Wings mode, he taps into the AIM field and expand his computation skills. D) Index said his Wings have the same power as that of Saints.
.
And as for this one. Maybe you can add up that even if he couldn't use his power any more. Even if batteries out or even out of range. While in this form. Nothing matters. He CAN STILL BE THE STRONGEST ESPER IN ACADEMY CITY FOR ALL HE CARES .

It happens in vol 13. Where he can't use his powers anymore when it first activated.

As for the awakening.... its pretty confusing and too little clue to assume that its the stronger grasp of one owns reality wins.

And to put it simple on the terms of kakine's power. Theirs an example already on a killing sun ray. Well normally a sun ray shouldn't melt or burn cement and turn everything to dust. But in contact with kakine's wings it turns that way. And also I'm not sure on this but from what shmaster said that kakina has 3 pair of wings already when his fighting accelerator and isn't that mean that his already awaken? but when accelerator awaken his black wings himself. kakine finally realize the real deal about their powers and his tiny wings grew 30 meters but still accelerator is awaken........ and when that psycho is awaken its good as dead. His mince meat. I think a butcher has a better taste on slicing meat than accelerator pounding his enemies well you can't feel too much pain with your been dead in single stroke unlike that psycho which tears his opponents into pieces.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shmaster View Post
You know what, this might work. Have Vent cought into a large AOE attack by accident. But the person who'll trick the esper/magician to launch the attack might be hit by the Divine Punishement first, as they directly schemed agsint Vent.

As for Accelerator's manipulation of AIM. No, he did not take over Kakine's Dark Matter as in taking over AIM. Rather, he included the entirety of Dark Matter into his vector calculation and took over the control. (which is pretty insane I might add, as Dark Matter is already jamming the laws of reality by itself, and Accelerator is actually able to calculate all the laws that has been rewritten and take control).

No, wait. Using hitman might work if they can have the mentality that is the same as Kihara. Kihara only has rthe desire to kill, but he has no target for it. He is there destroying things universally, even if Vent is going to get hit, the spell won't activate because Kihara is indifferent on what he destroy. In other words, Vent is not a target in this case, she is just the same as everything else Kihara feel likes to destroy.
So if the hitman hired did not consider Vent as the target but only think her as some random thing in the path of his goal (could be money, or the pride of his job), he can get her. But you have to be extremly inhuman to have that psychology to think everything is indifferent outside your goal. Hint, the key word is indifferent.

So, basically, Vent has to be the target of the concern in the attacker's mind in order for her spell to work.......
Wait, if we expand on this, perhaps someone who has the "mercy kill" psychology might be able to get her. Because even people like that attack her, they aren't attacking her because they antagonize her.


As for Saints using Telesma.... no, they can't spam spell for free. Having Telesma in them, their power is much higher in quality, but that also burdens them, as they are still human. They'll die if they use their power too much, so they always have a limit. The exception is everyone's favroite superman Aqua, the miracle of the Mary removes such limitation.

In other words, Saints themselves are primary producer of magic power as they have Telesma themsleves. Normal mages are secondary, as they have to borrow their powers from other beings (evoking other gods, using symbolic weapons or idol theory, or refine their powers from other sources like their own life force).
EDIT: while I'm replying theirs another reply and I haven't read this one so its edit:

Maybe just using bombs can kill her.

Bombs had wide area of effect and usually a bomber doesn't care on who gets hit as long as the place is destroyed.

And even if the one who hired the bomber had been hit by the spell if vent is dead it should be canceled out.

And if a person like kihara is needed. We got accelerator. His a psycho that just loves to kill "BUT WAIT THEIRS MORE" that's before when he doesn't met yet LO. His killing anyone who attacks him ( just like divine punishment but worse a psycho punishment ) Which puts me into thinking that the spell of divine punishment has a similarities on accelerator in a way of his auto reflect.

As for saint. Isn't kaori can't fully utilize her powers of being saint because its too much for her? unlike superman. Where's my kryptonite?

I read it here before and now had a confirmation from the previews post on the burden a saint gets from over using their power but theirs an exception being a double saint that can utilize 100% saint power and being ubber hax on his strength one and only superman which has his own justice with him ( just like superman ) will punish anyone who threatens peace ( just like superman) and to add it up love by girls ( just like superman ) Hey where's batman?

Last edited by tsunade666; 2010-01-19 at 03:45.
tsunade666 is offline  
Old 2010-01-19, 04:09   Link #1604
Chaos2Frozen
:)
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The Moon that Wizard came from
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by shmaster View Post
Yes. Albeit just slightly, Accelerator's existence does disrupt on the prescence of magic. Etzali, who has been using magic all the time to maintain his disguise felt pressured when Accelerator is closed to him.

Basically, the purpose of the AIM is to create an artificial alien world (the imaginary number school sector) to... how do I put it, squeeze out the alien world of magic.
Magic works by borrowing thr laws of an alien world and wrote it into our world through certain formulas. But what happen if we create an artifical alien world and have it cover our world, then there is no room for the laws from the alien world of magic to be written in, and thus those who use magic shall implode.
YES! Score 1!

But for people who use their own life force as magic, does the AIM world overwrite it too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shmaster View Post
You know what, this might work. Have Vent cought into a large AOE attack by accident. But the person who'll trick the esper/magician to launch the attack might be hit by the Divine Punishement first, as they directly schemed agsint Vent.
Score 2!

Quote:
Originally Posted by shmaster View Post
As for Accelerator's manipulation of AIM. No, he did not take over Kakine's Dark Matter as in taking over AIM. Rather, he included the entirety of Dark Matter into his vector calculation and took over the control. (which is pretty insane I might add, as Dark Matter is already jamming the laws of reality by itself, and Accelerator is actually able to calculate all the laws that has been rewritten and take control).
...Damn, ah well, 2 out of 3 ain't bad.

So he can't hijack AIM outright. Okay, I'm ask it directly now- Is there any way Accelerator's power can protect him from powers that don't have Vectors, like [Mental Out] and [Teleportation]?


Quote:
Originally Posted by shmaster View Post
In other words, Saints themselves are primary producer of magic power as they have Telesma themsleves. Normal mages are secondary, as they have to borrow their powers from other beings (evoking other gods, using symbolic weapons or idol theory, or refine their powers from other sources like their own life force).
What is the Idol Theory?
Chaos2Frozen is offline  
Old 2010-01-19, 04:44   Link #1605
tsunade666
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: In my room
Idol theory are graven images. Its popular on catholics where they have portrait of the saints and carvings of the holy family.

Basically accelerator is much more insane that what you think.
tsunade666 is offline  
Old 2010-01-19, 04:54   Link #1606
Chaos2Frozen
:)
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The Moon that Wizard came from
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
Idol theory are graven images. Its popular on catholics where they have portrait of the saints and carvings of the holy family.
But how does it work? The more an object is worshipped, the more power it gets? A supposedly this works on humans?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
Basically accelerator is much more insane that what you think.
Eh?
Chaos2Frozen is offline  
Old 2010-01-19, 05:02   Link #1607
tsunade666
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: In my room
I think its more like. Ad idol or a figure of an angel. Symbolizing the angel. It can represent it and borrow power from it.

The insane thing is from the controlling the or taking over the AIM but it looks like he took control of DARK MATTER entirety which I think is more insane. Including the computation involve on others ability with yours to take over of the control of the others ability is pretty insane.

And my random long rant before is ignored so I will keep it short.
tsunade666 is offline  
Old 2010-01-19, 08:23   Link #1608
LastResolve
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: athens
everything keeps getting confusing
__________________
LastResolve is offline  
Old 2010-01-19, 10:55   Link #1609
cubicjack
Kino fanboy
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastResolve View Post
everything keeps getting confusing
Honestly, I have no idea what they're trying to get to with their theories anymore.
cubicjack is offline  
Old 2010-01-19, 14:13   Link #1610
hayate-sama
お姉さま、君はどこ
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Vietnam
Age: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by cubicjack View Post
Honestly, I have no idea what they're trying to get to with their theories anymore.
In this threat, I sometime wonder what the heck I 'm reading eventhough I following it from the beginning.

Totally agree that Imaginary Breaker Is a Cheat, Ultimate cheat. But i wonder, if Level 6 mean absolute power then Touma is a Lev6 already, Power wise, no ESP or Magic can stand again Imaginary breaker ( not talking about real situation ) as they become meaningless one they come in contact with IB.

Btw : if Divine Punishment = Magic cheat, Redirection = Science cheat so IB = Universal cheat.

Edit :
Accelerator mention that his calculation power now is only half of his original power, if we consider that without the network, his calculating ability = zero that mean 9000+ sister calculating ability = 1/2 his original calculating ability => 20000 sister = his original ability => the whole Level 6 project mean that to archive lev 6 Accelerator have to defeat himself ?, a very meaningful project it seem
hayate-sama is offline  
Old 2010-01-19, 15:11   Link #1611
ReddyRedWolf
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
It's Imagine Breaker.
ReddyRedWolf is offline  
Old 2010-01-19, 15:29   Link #1612
Miraluka
18 forever
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Age: 24
Is speculated that Imagine Breaker is beyond the the human realm, being beyond the magic and science.
__________________

Deal with it!
Miraluka is offline  
Old 2010-01-19, 18:11   Link #1613
tsunade666
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: In my room
hataye: the whol level 6 project is a scheme. Its possible that he can level up by killing mikoto but why her and 100+ times. Well their are certain reason. Being their is a clone for her and being an electro master. They use this plan to it's full extent. Until Aleister favorite man find it out. Until touma finds it and put a stop to it. Then theirs the cure project of the imouto that leads to them being send to the world. And that helps to increase the AIM field of from just inside the Academy to neighboring towns and even country or maybe not just around japan. That's the real AIM of Aleister. To spread the AIM field. And mikoto is the perfect for this one. Aleister can't toy with his strongest esper and his spare for his no 1. So their comes the number 3 who's also an electro master. That being said it could be said that her ability is for the use of radio signal. Which is probably a front only. Then that radio program had been closed but the truth is the imouto mass production might be starting. But who knows. From what the lady in railgun says their is a year gap from the radio program because mikoto was just a child their from the point the imouto projects starts but their is a problem their. When she was called back to check on the imouto the imouto are already functioning. And she's just monitoring it. It means its already undergoing the project but maybe it took a while to complete it.

Oh well to long let's end it now.

Chaos is just trying to figure out how the magic and esper ability works and it really helps on understanding them more and its fun knowing it.
tsunade666 is offline  
Old 2010-01-19, 18:53   Link #1614
Miraluka
18 forever
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Age: 24
Well, I find interesting to read the differents points of view about the terms from Indexverse.
__________________

Deal with it!
Miraluka is offline  
Old 2010-01-19, 20:24   Link #1615
dahak
Utu Class Planetoid
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Reading, UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
You cannot let this person know about Vent, period.
How about Robots or Johan's Pen or Golems? To name three things that might attack her with out human agency.

Could Shelly tell Ellis to defend her and then drop it into independent mode when vent's around?

Index in her verbose debug mode isn't really conscious to begin with, so could the Johan's pen have dropped the dragons breath attack on her?

Could Maika ask the Toshi Gakuen security robots to protect her dear brother...
dahak is offline  
Old 2010-01-19, 20:56   Link #1616
Miraluka
18 forever
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahak View Post
Could Shelly tell Ellis to defend her and then drop it into independent mode when vent's around?
This can work if she only uses Ellis as an defensive tool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dahak View Post
Index in her verbose debug mode isn't really conscious to begin with, so could the Johan's pen have dropped the dragons breath attack on her?
Maybe not, since Johann's Pen determined Touma as an enemy. So that triggers the effect of the Divine Punishment

Quote:
Originally Posted by dahak View Post
Could Maika ask the Toshi Gakuen security robots to protect her dear brother...
If there are robots who are independent of any human control, yes, they can attack her but if you order/program the robot to attack her, the programmer should fall under the effects of the spell.
__________________

Deal with it!
Miraluka is offline  
Old 2010-01-19, 21:10   Link #1617
tsunade666
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: In my room
But the robot wouldn't fall into effect but the thing is that robots are useless against her. She's strong even without her divine punishment. But his hammer of wind isn't that really strong but she can spam it and its dangerous if she just throw it again and again on you.
tsunade666 is offline  
Old 2010-01-20, 03:54   Link #1618
hayate-sama
お姉さま、君はどこ
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Vietnam
Age: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
hataye: the whol level 6 project is a scheme. Its possible that he can level up by killing mikoto but why her and 100+ times. Well their are certain reason. Being their is a clone for her and being an electro master. They use this plan to it's full extent. Until Aleister favorite man find it out. Until touma finds it and put a stop to it. Then theirs the cure project of the imouto that leads to them being send to the world. And that helps to increase the AIM field of from just inside the Academy to neighboring towns and even country or maybe not just around japan. That's the real AIM of Aleister. To spread the AIM field. And mikoto is the perfect for this one. Aleister can't toy with his strongest esper and his spare for his no 1. So their comes the number 3 who's also an electro master. That being said it could be said that her ability is for the use of radio signal. Which is probably a front only. Then that radio program had been closed but the truth is the imouto mass production might be starting. But who knows. From what the lady in railgun says their is a year gap from the radio program because mikoto was just a child their from the point the imouto projects starts but their is a problem their. When she was called back to check on the imouto the imouto are already functioning. And she's just monitoring it. It means its already undergoing the project but maybe it took a while to complete it.

Oh well to long let's end it now.

Chaos is just trying to figure out how the magic and esper ability works and it really helps on understanding them more and its fun knowing it.
Yes I get Aleister Plan through the thread but I 'm talking about the level 6 project and it mechanism.

It also explain that why Aleister chose Mikoto as a subject in Level 6 project instead of the other number 2. I my theory is correct then Accelerator is 127 or (157 ) times stronger than Mikoto.
hayate-sama is offline  
Old 2010-01-20, 05:53   Link #1619
LastResolve
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: athens
Quote:
Totally agree that Imaginary Breaker Is a Cheat, Ultimate cheat. But i wonder, if Level 6 mean absolute power then Touma is a Lev6 already, Power wise, no ESP or Magic can stand again Imaginary breaker ( not talking about real situation ) as they become meaningless one they come in contact with IB.

Btw : if Divine Punishment = Magic cheat, Redirection = Science cheat so IB = Universal cheat.
more like -6
__________________
LastResolve is offline  
Old 2010-01-20, 06:02   Link #1620
tsunade666
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: In my room
IF accelerator is 100+ stronger than mikoto how about the 2nd?

Kakine vs Accelerator is like an adult vs a child but if its Accelerator vs 3rd below its like an elephant vs an ant.

But the 3rd below doesn't include sogita gunha. From what shmaster said. His probably one of the strongest too. Being a gemstone. His strength is a big mystery and can't be measured but unlike imagine breaker it release AIM and can be measure but still questionable on its real strength its just pure estimation and just being estimated its already level 5.
tsunade666 is offline  
Closed Thread

Tags
action, dengeki bunko, fantasy, light novels, science fiction, shounen

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:25.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.