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Old 2010-01-26, 23:57   Link #5721
mg1942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monir View Post
Are we seriously comparing Obama to Bush now?
Stats/graphs don't lie
Bush 2.0 beats Obama @ 7 months into first term with 56% approval vs. Obama's 52%.
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Old 2010-01-27, 00:03   Link #5722
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mg1942 View Post
Stats/graphs don't lie
Bush 2.0 beats Obama @ 7 months into first term with 56% approval vs. Obama's 52%.
Bush didn't really do anything at all for like the first year of his term other than take vacations and try desperately to get his cabinet appointed. Obama tried to go right ahead with his goals the second he got into office and hit the ground running. As far as I've been able to tell as long as you don't do anything at all or try to make any reforms your approval rating will rarely drop in politics, because doing stuff will always upset one demograhpic or another and thus cause your overall approval rating to go down.
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Old 2010-01-27, 00:10   Link #5723
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^Additionally, Obama, in just his first year, is one of the most polarizing Presidents in (current) history. So, of course his polls will always be screwed up one way or another.
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Old 2010-01-27, 00:13   Link #5724
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Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
Bush didn't really do anything at all for like the first year of his term other than take vacations and try desperately to get his cabinet appointed. Obama tried to go right ahead with his goals the second he got into office and hit the ground running. As far as I've been able to tell as long as you don't do anything at all or try to make any reforms your approval rating will rarely drop in politics, because doing stuff will always upset one demograhpic or another and thus cause your overall approval rating to go down.
It took Bush months to get his cabinet filled due to the election controversy and then problems with Congress getting people approved. Obama didn't have either of those problems and was able to get his cabinet up and running in a very short time.

Right now Obama is upsetting both political parties for various reasons. Not to mention he's been pushing that Healthcare Bill through that the majority of people DO NOT WANT.

Hasn't Obama played more rounds of Golf in his first year, than Bush did in 8 years?

The left is still waiting for Gitmo to close, troops out of Iraq, troops out of Afghanistan, Universal Healthcare, Cap & Trade, increased taxes on the rich, yada yada.

And whatever happened to no earmarks, no special interests, no lobbyists controlling the Government, transparency in everything, no taxing the middle class, etc, etc?
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Old 2010-01-27, 00:20   Link #5725
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One thing that really irked me was how he was perceived during his candidacy and immediately after his presidency. He is the miracle man who is going to quick-fix everyone's lives. He is the one who will bring the need for change. The fact is most of us don't receive change very well, so we are pretty much getting in the way of our own ambition for change. The self interest groups (i.e. insurance companies for one such example) only helping us to verify that very fact.

Memories are fleeting. Obama is certainly way over his head if he thought people are ready for change just because that might be what they want or need.
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Old 2010-01-27, 00:21   Link #5726
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
Bush didn't really do anything at all for like the first year of his term other than take vacations and try desperately to get his cabinet appointed. Obama tried to go right ahead with his goals the second he got into office and hit the ground running. As far as I've been able to tell as long as you don't do anything at all or try to make any reforms your approval rating will rarely drop in politics, because doing stuff will always upset one demograhpic or another and thus cause your overall approval rating to go down.
commendable but theh problem was obama wasted his time on the wrong issue. The country was facing a collapse of the financial industry and a 10% unemployment and the first major bill he went to bat for was climate control Commendable but utterly foolish then health care and he made the big mistake letting congress try to sell it to the public


Other then the TARP bill which was so full of pork i was surprise it didn't go oink. all the while financial reform and the economy was on the back burner.
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Old 2010-01-27, 02:08   Link #5727
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Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
The left is still waiting for Gitmo to close, troops out of Iraq, troops out of Afghanistan, Universal Healthcare, Cap & Trade, increased taxes on the rich, yada yada.

And whatever happened to no earmarks, no special interests, no lobbyists controlling the Government, transparency in everything, no taxing the middle class, etc, etc?
gitmo closed to protect human rights... k that's bad....

troops out of iraq... thats deny lobbyist power special interest as in the INDUSTRIAL MILITARY COMPLEX

troops out of Afghanistan... Dido

Universal Healthcare (PST... It's not universal health care... it only insures an additional 30 million americans) Taking away lobbying power from the IMC's means you gotta give the insurance lobby some more power

Cap n Trade Dido, because special interests and lobbyists own washington whether it's a dem or a republican in the presidency/house/senate Bush batted for big oil and haliburton, obama bats for vapor greentech.
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Old 2010-01-27, 02:20   Link #5728
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosauz View Post
gitmo closed to protect human rights... k that's bad....

troops out of iraq... thats deny lobbyist power special interest as in the INDUSTRIAL MILITARY COMPLEX

troops out of Afghanistan... Dido

Universal Healthcare (PST... It's not universal health care... it only insures an additional 30 million americans) Taking away lobbying power from the IMC's means you gotta give the insurance lobby some more power

Cap n Trade Dido, because special interests and lobbyists own washington whether it's a dem or a republican in the presidency/house/senate Bush batted for big oil and haliburton, obama bats for vapor greentech.
Then why isn't Obama telling the America all of this? What the hell is he doing? He just lets Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid do whatever the hell they want in Congress, and he'll sign whatever shows up at his desk in the Oval Office(when he's not on vacation or golfing).

As someone who is opposed to those positions, I'm glad they haven't happened. But that's besides the point. He's long on promises, short on keeping them. And up until last week, he had a bigger majority in both Houses of Congress, than the Republicans have had since 1923. He was suppose to be against Special Interests, yet he caters to them every bit as his predecessor did if not more so.

God I wish there was a way to kick all of them to the curb. From local, state, and federal. Just start over from scratch.
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Old 2010-01-27, 02:32   Link #5729
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Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
Then why isn't Obama telling the America all of this? What the hell is he doing? He just lets Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid do whatever the hell they want in Congress, and he'll sign whatever shows up at his desk in the Oval Office(when he's not on vacation or golfing).

As someone who is opposed to those positions, I'm glad they haven't happened. But that's besides the point. He's long on promises, short on keeping them. And up until last week, he had a bigger majority in both Houses of Congress, than the Republicans have had since 1923. He was suppose to be against Special Interests, yet he caters to them every bit as his predecessor did if not more so.

God I wish there was a way to kick all of them to the curb. From local, state, and federal. Just start over from scratch.
except you seem to have the blinders on for bush.. because clearly this is the only president you've wanted to kick out. AGAIN this is why I find you hard to talk to. Iraq is a quagmire, vietnam 20x, Afghanistan is definitely worse than when the ruskies where in there. These places are solely here to help fund the IMC and keep us afraid, keep out tax dollars to continue building those bombs and missles that continue to improve the revenues of companies that produce these wartime supplies.
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Old 2010-01-27, 03:09   Link #5730
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
It took Bush months to get his cabinet filled due to the election controversy and then problems with Congress getting people approved. Obama didn't have either of those problems and was able to get his cabinet up and running in a very short time.

Right now Obama is upsetting both political parties for various reasons. Not to mention he's been pushing that Healthcare Bill through that the majority of people DO NOT WANT.

Hasn't Obama played more rounds of Golf in his first year, than Bush did in 8 years?

The left is still waiting for Gitmo to close, troops out of Iraq, troops out of Afghanistan, Universal Healthcare, Cap & Trade, increased taxes on the rich, yada yada.

And whatever happened to no earmarks, no special interests, no lobbyists controlling the Government, transparency in everything, no taxing the middle class, etc, etc?
Somebody's vying for a guest spot on Fox & Friends.

Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
^Additionally, Obama, in just his first year, is one of the most polarizing Presidents in (current) history. So, of course his polls will always be screwed up one way or another.
My favourite graph on that page is the one that shows Clinton and Obama at 23% approval rating from Republicans and Bush Sr. and Bush Jr. at 51% and 47% respectively from Democrats vs. 83% and 92% (!!!!) from Republicans . Then again I kind of hold to Joe Biden's statment that the Republican party has become so full of hardline right wingers ever since the Reagan era that it would be completely impossible for anybody other than perhaps Olympia Snowe to do anything but sneer at the mention of supporting a Democrat. That's part of the reason why Obama was naive in thinking that there could ever be a spirit of bipartisianship in Washington and also part of the reason why it's next to impossible for the Democrats to get anything passed in Congress even with their majority versus the Republicans since the Democratic party actually has it's share of moderates, leftists and even a right leaning faction who all have to be appeased.
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Old 2010-01-27, 03:10   Link #5731
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Originally Posted by Nosauz View Post
except you seem to have the blinders on for bush.. because clearly this is the only president you've wanted to kick out. AGAIN this is why I find you hard to talk to. Iraq is a quagmire, vietnam 20x, Afghanistan is definitely worse than when the ruskies where in there. These places are solely here to help fund the IMC and keep us afraid, keep out tax dollars to continue building those bombs and missles that continue to improve the revenues of companies that produce these wartime supplies.
In Vietnam we lost over 50,000 troops. Tens of thousands were severally injured. We've lost a tenth of that in Iraq and Afghanistan COMBINED. Both wars could be won if the Politicians didn't tie the hands of those fighting. Just ask the pilots doing bombing runs 30 years ago, and now. Or ask the troops on the ground just what kind of rules of engagement they have.

I voted for Bush because he was the best of the worst. He was far superior to Al Gore, and far superior to John Kerry. Did I vote for him in the 2000 and 2004 primaries? Hell no. But when the chips were down and it was either him or AG/JK, I had to make the least painful choice for the country. Did I vote for McCain in the Primary in 2008? Nope. He was the LAST person I would have picked on the list. But again, he was better than Obama. However slight. It was a hold my nose and vote every election. I haven't been excited about a Presidential Candidate ever.

Obama lies in every single speech he gives. Just youtube "Obama lies" and see how many times he contradicts himself. Look at the people he surrounds himself with. Bill Ayers. His Church Pastor Jeremiah Wright. Secretary Timothy F. Geithner. Attorney General Eric H. Holder, Jr.. Secretary Janet A. Napolitano(ask Arizonians what they think about her). White House Chief of Staff Rahm I. Emanuel. Robert Gibbs(the guy makes Baghdad Bob look intelligent).

I read somewhere that Obama had the lowest % of Staff and Cabinet Members of ANY President in History, who had experience in the Private sector. Something like 8% when the average president had 50-60%.

Umm hello. If you want the economy to recover, hire people who know WTF is going on. Do you know why Government Unemployment is only around 4%, when the private sector is well over 10%? Or why the average Federal Government employee makes over 70k a year, yet Private Sector averages just over 40k a year? This whole thing stinks and the American Government needs an enema.
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Old 2010-01-27, 03:16   Link #5732
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Private sector... 40k.... k that's just asinine. Because I bet you the industries lobbying washington have a much higher entry level pay, plus cite your sources, where does that 70k come from how is it calculated?

The point is, k obama lied... so did bush... Government is way too influenced by the private sector as it is, but then again the private sector is what we need to get us back into the boom bust cycle we have been in. If it wasn't for the rampant greed and the lack of humanity that most ceos possessed I wouldn't mind deregulation but the fact that we DON'T have a free market, but instead an economy controlled by oligopolies and heavily vested corporate interests in politics, I find my trust in the private sector and the government severly lacking. It's fine to make money, no doubt about it, but to gut an entire company, and run it into the ground and then to get bailed out and then for those that recieved bail out money to give record bonuses for losing billions of dollars is just asinine. Only in a corrupt corporate world are these actions "just".
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Old 2010-01-27, 03:20   Link #5733
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
In Vietnam we lost over 50,000 troops. Tens of thousands were severally injured. We've lost a tenth of that in Iraq and Afghanistan COMBINED. Both wars could be won if the Politicians didn't tie the hands of those fighting. Just ask the pilots doing bombing runs 30 years ago, and now. Or ask the troops on the ground just what kind of rules of engagement they have.

I voted for Bush because he was the best of the worst. He was far superior to Al Gore, and far superior to John Kerry. Did I vote for him in the 2000 and 2004 primaries? Hell no. But when the chips were down and it was either him or AG/JK, I had to make the least painful choice for the country. Did I vote for McCain in the Primary in 2008? Nope. He was the LAST person I would have picked on the list. But again, he was better than Obama. However slight. It was a hold my nose and vote every election. I haven't been excited about a Presidential Candidate ever.

Obama lies in every single speech he gives. Just youtube "Obama lies" and see how many times he contradicts himself. Look at the people he surrounds himself with. Bill Ayers. His Church Pastor Jeremiah Wright. Secretary Timothy F. Geithner. Attorney General Eric H. Holder, Jr.. Secretary Janet A. Napolitano(ask Arizonians what they think about her). White House Chief of Staff Rahm I. Emanuel. Robert Gibbs(the guy makes Baghdad Bob look intelligent).

I read somewhere that Obama had the lowest % of Staff and Cabinet Members of ANY President in History, who had experience in the Private sector. Something like 8% when the average president had 50-60%.

Umm hello. If you want the economy to recover, hire people who know WTF is going on. Do you know why Government Unemployment is only around 4%, when the private sector is well over 10%? Or why the average Federal Government employee makes over 70k a year, yet Private Sector averages just over 40k a year? This whole thing stinks and the American Government needs an enema.
This is seriously some of the most splendid partisan hackery I've ever read on these forums. Man I thought you were just kidding, but let's start to try and get a little serious here instead of resorting to the kind of stuff one might hear on The O'Reilly Factor.
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Old 2010-01-27, 03:24   Link #5734
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Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
This is seriously some of the most splendid partisan hackery I've ever read on these forums. Man I thought you were just kidding, but let's start to try and get a little serious here instead of resorting to the kind of stuff one might hear on The O'Reilly Factor.
Instead of labeling and marginalizing justinstrife, why don't you try and disprove him? Most of what he says is partly accurate (some of it is more akin to rumour mongering than anything meaningful), but by not disproving his assertions, you merely end up ignoring the actual question(s).

Last edited by james0246; 2010-01-27 at 03:32. Reason: made some minor changes...
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Old 2010-01-27, 03:31   Link #5735
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Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post

Obama lies in every single speech he gives.
Remember when he said...

"I will finally end the abuse of no-bid contracts once and for all..."



Obama pledged to end the abuse of no bid contracts, not put an end to them.

Bush abused them, Obama is simply using them appropriately.


(You guys need to retake "Politico Speak 101")
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Old 2010-01-27, 03:40   Link #5736
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Instead of labeling and marginalizing justinstrife, why don't you try and disprove him? Most of what he says is only partly accurate (soem of it is even more akin to rumour mongering than anything meaningful), but by not disproving his assertions, you merely end up ignoring the actual question(s).
No it is just not worth it.
From what I have read so far it is next to impossible to fight a religion-like bias that is based more on belief/prejudice than anything else with factual sound logic.

There are people who are prone to fall for polemics for a lack of (self-)critical thinking. Self-critical... because you will always have to ask yourself, am I just biased now... do I really have all the news input (e.g. read left AND right media sources) to form my own sound oppinion.

If you want to fight against the ever lobbying presence of the guys in the corvette forum or FOX (and so on) this will be a fulltime job, since you will never get the underlying bias away.

Besides, most of the people on this planet are biased towards something anyway, and one bias can counterbalance another bias, that gives room for those people who want to belong to neither side.
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Old 2010-01-27, 03:47   Link #5737
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Instead of labeling and marginalizing justinstrife, why don't you try and disprove him? Most of what he says is partly accurate (some of it is more akin to rumour mongering than anything meaningful), but by not disproving his assertions, you merely end up ignoring the actual question(s).
That's because they can't disprove most of what I say. The facts are out there. Most of them even in video to see.

If you can't even believe what you see with your own eyes, well then what can I say?
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Old 2010-01-27, 03:51   Link #5738
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Instead of labeling and marginalizing justinstrife, why don't you try and disprove him? Most of what he says is partly accurate (some of it is more akin to rumour mongering than anything meaningful), but by not disproving his assertions, you merely end up ignoring the actual question(s).
Indeed a lot of it is partly right, but it still reeks of partisan hackery in that it all goes into is the goal of villfying Obama and deifying Bush when thats not even the issue being discussed. And now we are all pretty much ignoring the actual questions thanks to it. We're now so far away from the original news article about the Supreme Court decision that I actually had to go back and remember what it was we were originally supposed to be talking about. The kicker is that I was the one that posted that article and I didn't even realize this current discussion was supposed to be linked to it in any way shape or form until I checked the quote chain.

Well anyway I think we need a new news story now so how about this one about the apparent unpreparedness of the United States against a potential biochemical attack.
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Old 2010-01-27, 04:05   Link #5739
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Mystery of the Missing Millionare: spotted, but not found.

Shopowners 'spot missing millionare Herman Rockefeller'

1) They found his Prius somewhere. For those who read my sig, I hate this car, but that doesn't make a difference.
2) He was spotted buying a pie, shortly before the media released information that he was missing.

For those that don't know, this guy touched down in Melbourne yesterday, and was last seen driving his Prius out of Long Term parking. He hasn't contacted his family since landing at Melbourne Airport (tempted to call it Melbourne International).
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Old 2010-01-27, 05:34   Link #5740
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Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
In Vietnam we lost over 50,000 troops. Tens of thousands were severally injured. We've lost a tenth of that in Iraq and Afghanistan COMBINED. Both wars could be won if the Politicians didn't tie the hands of those fighting. Just ask the pilots doing bombing runs 30 years ago, and now. Or ask the troops on the ground just what kind of rules of engagement they have.
We didn't lose in Vietnam, though we didn't win either. When we left there was still a North and South Vietnam, with a treaty in place, though not with as favorable terms as we could have gotten had we been willing to push the North harder. The reason there isn't today is because the North realized we didn't have the stomach to go back in, so they broke the treaty and conquered the South. There was only a token US force there in the end. Our troops for the most part were pulled out.

Further the problem in Iraq and Afghanistan isn't restrictive rules of engagement. Unless you think "No bombing civilians if it can be avoided." is too restrictive. It's that we haven't done a very good job at restoring the infrastructure in both. We did better in Iraq, though Iraq had more to start with and got far more resources, so that's not saying that much.

Quote:
I voted for Bush because he was the best of the worst. He was far superior to Al Gore, and far superior to John Kerry. Did I vote for him in the 2000 and 2004 primaries? Hell no. But when the chips were down and it was either him or AG/JK, I had to make the least painful choice for the country. Did I vote for McCain in the Primary in 2008? Nope. He was the LAST person I would have picked on the list. But again, he was better than Obama. However slight. It was a hold my nose and vote every election. I haven't been excited about a Presidential Candidate ever.
Then vote for a third party candidate. It isn't just a choice between the republican and the democrat. Let's be honest here, unless you live in a "swing state", the only thing your vote is worth is political capital. Voting for a third party candidate is a way of denying the winner a mandate and showing dissatisfaction. You aren't throwing your vote away like idiots claim.

Quote:
Obama lies in every single speech he gives. Just youtube "Obama lies" and see how many times he contradicts himself. Look at the people he surrounds himself with. Bill Ayers. His Church Pastor Jeremiah Wright. Secretary Timothy F. Geithner. Attorney General Eric H. Holder, Jr.. Secretary Janet A. Napolitano(ask Arizonians what they think about her). White House Chief of Staff Rahm I. Emanuel. Robert Gibbs(the guy makes Baghdad Bob look intelligent).
Like Bush didn't. Remember that big banner that said "Mission Accomplished" in the background when he was making that speech marking "the end of major combat operations in Iraq"? We're still there. Plus there's "lies" where some numbers are different, and there are lies where as a direct result, you invade another country. Guess which president did the latter. I'll give you a hint, it wasn't Obama.

Quote:
I read somewhere that Obama had the lowest % of Staff and Cabinet Members of ANY President in History, who had experience in the Private sector. Something like 8% when the average president had 50-60%.
Even if true, so what?

Quote:
Umm hello. If you want the economy to recover, hire people who know WTF is going on. Do you know why Government Unemployment is only around 4%, when the private sector is well over 10%? Or why the average Federal Government employee makes over 70k a year, yet Private Sector averages just over 40k a year? This whole thing stinks and the American Government needs an enema.
So wait, you're claiming that because government workers have higher salaries and lower unemployment than the private sector, the government is the one doing something wrong, and not the private sector?

Let's be honest here, the private sector created the current problems. By putting short term gain ahead of long term stability, we get the current financial mess. After all, who cares if there's a possibility if your questionable home loans might be defaulted on leaving your bank critically short on cash to pay your own debt. It means you're getting 5.32% growth this quarter instead of steady 2.56% growth, and you'll be long gone with a 9 figure bonus by the time that happens, so it'll be your successor's problem.
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