AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2010-01-27, 11:22   Link #241
Kaoru Chujo
Sakura Ayane
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Quite entertaining. I love the character design and overall look. And the story and characters are intriguing. But I think this shows the difference between a second-rate director like Motonaga and a first-rate director like Shinbou. Bakemonogatari was visually so much more interesting, and he got so much more from the seiyuu.

The voices here were nice to listen to -- Tamura Yukari, Nakahara Mai, and Hosoyo Yoshimasa -- but the lines had very little force or savour, as good as some of them were. Not sure whether to blame the director, the sound director, or the seiyuus, but the quick, flat delivery didn't work -- although I think it could have.

There is certainly a difference between the sound directors: this show was done by Ebina Yasunori, who did Fruits Basket, Amenaideyo, Lovedol, Minami-ke. Bakemonogatari was done by top sound director Tsuruoka Yota: Turn A Gundam, Hellsing, Suzumiya Haruhi, Hitohira, Clannad, etc.

And as successful as Uezu Makoto (Amenaideyo, School Days, Seto no Hanayome, Akasaka, Seikon no Qwesar) has been as a writer, it's not for the snappiness of his lines or the rhythms of how they are put together. Whereas Fuyashi Tou wrote the highly verbal and comic Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei before Bakemonogatari.

The main difference, however, is the directors: one knows how to create powerful visual/aural rhythms and the other doesn't. One has a grasp of subtle ironies (like the protagonist's simpleness, here) and the other can't get them across.
__________________
SAKURA Ayane 佐倉綾音 age 20. Dream Eater Merry; Hotarubi no Mori e (movie) Hotaru; Joshiraku Buratei Marii; NakaImo Miyabi; Kokoro Connect Yui's sister; Vividred Operation Akane; Toaru Majutsu no Index: Endymion no Kiseki (movie) Ladylee; Aiura Mei; Love Lab "Eno"; il sole penetra le illusioni Fuyuna; Eccentric Family Kaisei; High School DxD New Gaspard; Kimi no Iru Machi Asuka; Non Non Biyori Natsumi; Tokyo Ravens Suzuka; Engaged to the Unidentified Nadeshiko; Pretty Rhythm All Star Selection: Prism Show Best Ten (movie) Ayami, Rinne; Selector Infected Wixoss Yuzuki; Dragonar Academy Silvia; Gochuumon wa Usagi Desu ka? Kokoa; Knights of Sidonia Mozuku.
Hashihime blog | Twitter @nakanokimi | spring 2014 previews | spring 2014 schedule |
characters/seiyuus: Nobunaga the Fool | Nisekoi | Wixoss | Isshuukan Friends | Brynhildr in the Darkness | Kanojo ga Flag wo Oretara | Mangaka-san to Assistant-san to | Inugami-san to Nekoyama-san | Soul Eater Not | No Game, No Life | Is the Order a Rabbit? | Nanana's Buried Treasure | Mekakucity Actors | Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei | Bokura wa Minna Kawaisou | Soredemo Sekai wa Utsukushii
Kaoru Chujo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-27, 12:44   Link #242
apr
Pedestrian
 
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Sweden
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
And as successful as Uezu Makoto (Amenaideyo, School Days, Seto no Hanayome, Akasaka, Seikon no Qwesar) has been as a writer, it's not for the snappiness of his lines or the rhythms of how they are put together. Whereas Fuyashi Tou wrote the highly verbal and comic Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei before Bakemonogatari.
The Bakemon lines were taken straight from the books, so it's not so much the screenwriter writing snappy lines as it was Nishio.
__________________
...in my humble opinion.
apr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-27, 13:13   Link #243
Kanon
Kana Hanazawa ♥
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: France
Age: 27
I enjoyed the first episode a lot. Chara design and overall visual style are really nice, but I agree with Kaoru Chujo about the directing. The lines in Bakemonogatari may have been taken straight from the books (is it the same here?) but somehow I feel Shinbou managed to make all the dialogues feel more alive and entertaining. The dialogue in the first ep of Katana just didn't seem to have as much flavour and punch as the dialogues in Bakemonogatari. But maybe that's the fault of the original novel, I don't know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SquirrelLuvsPnut View Post
Don't worry, there's more stuff with her.
Nice to hear that. I was sad to see her stay on the island, she's the character I like the most so far.

Last edited by Kanon; 2010-01-27 at 13:34.
Kanon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-27, 14:00   Link #244
DragoonKain3
Osana-Najimi Shipper
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mt. Ordeals
I personally liked the way they handle it here, so I'm very glad Shaft is not doing the animation this time around. No jarring split second change of shots during a conversation, which to me detracts from what the story is trying to say by making you focus on the visuals, which half the time isn't even related to what is going on.

As my brother puts his criticism of Shinbou's work in Bakemonogatari, "What a pathetic attempt at post-modern artistry." His words, not mine, for the record...

Sure, in here there's long batches of time where all they do is talk, and some people like it spiced up with visuals like Shinbou does. Not me though; I'd take complaints like 'it's only talking heads' over Shinbou's usual style anyday of the week. Good think he has toned it down a bit in Vampire Bund, but that's for another time in another thread.

Overall, I LOVED Katanagatari, and in the visual sense, I rate it far above Bakemonogatari.
__________________

Yes its YOU childhood friend - source of BERZERKER RAGE since forever
Childhood Friend couple STATISTICS(spoilers abound though)
DragoonKain3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-27, 14:12   Link #245
Kunagisa
赤緑黒白
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon_ View Post
... The dialogue in the first ep of Katana just didn't seem to have as much flavour and punch as the dialogues in Bakemonogatari. But maybe that's the fault of the original novel, I don't know.
This. The original novel has relatively little impact value for its first book (stapler girl), and the character design in a way also made it hard for them to have much freedom to design the rest of the world (which I also thought they did a splendid job in the OP). I keep thinking I'm watching a children fairy tale the whole time.

Though I think the people who are into heavy dialogue didn't get enough of the witty lines that Nisio is so famous for, and the ones who are not into heavy dialogue didn't get enough of the action (if you put the entire Monkey arc together in Bakemono you really get about the same amount of action as it here, except is more violent). Believe it or not, they actually edited out quite a few details, so it's even more chatty in the original (Togame talks A LOTTTTTT).

One thing I keep thinking about is the budget. Maybe they're being lazy with the scene (aka panning between characters and just straight up facial shots during conversation instead of say ... having a random scene about the blacksmith making those 1,000 swords) creativity to save money for the later parts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
Overall, I LOVED Katanagatari, and in the visual sense, I rate it far above Bakemonogatari.
White Fox's animation remains strong for its second major work, definitely keep tabs on anything made by this company from now on.
Kunagisa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-27, 14:13   Link #246
Kanon
Kana Hanazawa ♥
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: France
Age: 27
DragoonKain3: I guess it's mainly a matter of preference. I know Shinbou's stuff probably seem very pretentious or annoying to many people, but I've always liked what he does. I don't have that much complaint about Katanagatari, really, it's not like I fell asleep during the heavy dialogue or anything. I just like Shinbou's approach better.
Kanon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-27, 15:08   Link #247
sirn
レス乞食
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by stuopidget View Post
the character design in a way also made it hard for them to have much freedom to design the rest of the world (which I also thought they did a splendid job in the OP). I keep thinking I'm watching a children fairy tale the whole time.
I remembered reading somewhere they asked Take to do all the design work. Can't remember where, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
Whereas Fuyashi Tou wrote the highly verbal and comic Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei before Bakemonogatari.
Scriptwriter is nonexistent in Bakemonogatari, two guys from Seven Days War who credited for script in each episode are actually editors who worked on picking up lines from the novel. Series organization Tou Fuyashi stands forů とうふやし → しやふとう → シヤフトウ → シャフト.
sirn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-27, 15:20   Link #248
Preacher
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
How to know it was a good episode? That after 2 minutes you completely forgot that original style of drawing and watched till the end without paying attention to it.

I didnt though that artwork would be so easy to swallow, yet it seemed so... natural.
__________________
Preacher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-27, 16:09   Link #249
Kaoru Chujo
Sakura Ayane
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
...As my brother puts his criticism of Shinbou's work in Bakemonogatari, "What a pathetic attempt at post-modern artistry...."
I'm not into everything Shinbou does -- and when Oonuma Shin's ef memories came out, I thought it was better visual Shaft than anything Shinbou had done, partly because the odd visuals actually fit and contributed to the feeling of the story, rather than just being edgy play, like most of Shinbou's previous work had seemed to me.

But I thought that in Bakemonogatari, Shinbou hit his stride, and that the visuals complemented and energized the words and story. Of course, it may be that it was only with that show that I began to understand what he had been doing all along.

Katanagatari is just workmanlike, and the visuals are generally pretty but don't contribute much beyond that. Panning a scene to simulate motion (and save money) is fine by me, but I thought it was done in a rather crude way here.

But as I say, I enjoyed the look of the show quite a bit. The character design and backgrounds are excellent. Like a fairy-tale, indeed. Which seems a good thing, to me.

Thanks to sirn for that info about "Tou Fuyashi," lol. I guess then I prefer the work of nameless Shaft staff to Uezu Makoto's. Doesn't surprise me, since I haven't liked anything he has done before. I still have some hope for Seiken no Qwesar.
__________________
SAKURA Ayane 佐倉綾音 age 20. Dream Eater Merry; Hotarubi no Mori e (movie) Hotaru; Joshiraku Buratei Marii; NakaImo Miyabi; Kokoro Connect Yui's sister; Vividred Operation Akane; Toaru Majutsu no Index: Endymion no Kiseki (movie) Ladylee; Aiura Mei; Love Lab "Eno"; il sole penetra le illusioni Fuyuna; Eccentric Family Kaisei; High School DxD New Gaspard; Kimi no Iru Machi Asuka; Non Non Biyori Natsumi; Tokyo Ravens Suzuka; Engaged to the Unidentified Nadeshiko; Pretty Rhythm All Star Selection: Prism Show Best Ten (movie) Ayami, Rinne; Selector Infected Wixoss Yuzuki; Dragonar Academy Silvia; Gochuumon wa Usagi Desu ka? Kokoa; Knights of Sidonia Mozuku.
Hashihime blog | Twitter @nakanokimi | spring 2014 previews | spring 2014 schedule |
characters/seiyuus: Nobunaga the Fool | Nisekoi | Wixoss | Isshuukan Friends | Brynhildr in the Darkness | Kanojo ga Flag wo Oretara | Mangaka-san to Assistant-san to | Inugami-san to Nekoyama-san | Soul Eater Not | No Game, No Life | Is the Order a Rabbit? | Nanana's Buried Treasure | Mekakucity Actors | Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei | Bokura wa Minna Kawaisou | Soredemo Sekai wa Utsukushii

Last edited by Kaoru Chujo; 2010-01-27 at 16:41.
Kaoru Chujo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-27, 16:28   Link #250
SquirrelLuvsPnut
Kill on sight
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Togame pan
Spoiler for pic:

Nanami pan
Spoiler for pic:
SquirrelLuvsPnut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-27, 16:37   Link #251
omimon
Professional Hikkikomori
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirn View Post
I remembered reading somewhere they asked Take to do all the design work. Can't remember where, though.


Scriptwriter is nonexistent in Bakemonogatari, two guys from Seven Days War who credited for script in each episode are actually editors who worked on picking up lines from the novel. Series organization Tou Fuyashi stands forů とうふやし → しやふとう → シヤフトウ → シャフト.
Wow, that's actually pretty smart. Only people from Shaft could think of something this clever. For the people who doesn't know Japanese, Tou Fuyashi is Shaft spelled backwards in Japanese.
omimon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-27, 17:25   Link #252
Kunagisa
赤緑黒白
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirn View Post
I remembered reading somewhere they asked Take to do all the design work. Can't remember where, though.
Maybe an excerpt from the Guide Book that was released before the airing? If that's the case, I give the art director too much credit then.

EDIT: I expected at least a couple people to question the farfetchness of the cause of her white hair (which does not feel out of place for me because of the random stories that I grew up with), but everyone seem to just accept it so readily.

Last edited by Kunagisa; 2010-01-27 at 17:40.
Kunagisa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-27, 18:13   Link #253
SquirrelLuvsPnut
Kill on sight
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by stuopidget View Post
Maybe an excerpt from the Guide Book that was released before the airing? If that's the case, I give the art director too much credit then.
Oh yeah, I just read about that book! I think I'll try to special order it somewhere just so I can see if Koumori is in it. Yeah, I'm a broken record.

Also, I think this was one of the best scenes of the episode.
Spoiler for Pics:
SquirrelLuvsPnut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-27, 18:43   Link #254
GoGetMyShotgun
Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Canada
Age: 20
Wow, I'm not sure why I sat through 50 minutes of talking heads with only around 10-20 seconds of any real action and actually enjoyed it. Maybe its the funky art style.

I'm also curious about Togame. Did her hair just change white due to trauma (although the flashback might explain that) or was it always like that? And her eye is pretty weird also. I keep thinking she's going to use a Geass every time she did that..
__________________

"Don't leave me alone anymore." ~ Billionaire Girl
GoGetMyShotgun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-27, 20:09   Link #255
Konakaga
Yuri Moderator
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: FL, USA
Age: 26
Send a message via AIM to Konakaga Send a message via Skype™ to Konakaga
Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
Overall, I LOVED Katanagatari, and in the visual sense, I rate it far above Bakemonogatari.
I'd have to agree if one thing that I really enjoyed above in this show so far it's the style of art, it's very unique. Though I enjoyed majority of the music and dialogue as well, and action was good despite there being a small amount of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoGetMyShotgun View Post
And her eye is pretty weird also. I keep thinking she's going to use a Geass every time she did that..
I half expected him to be geassed by her when she said "Fall for me" >.>.

P.S. someone tell the people in the anime doomed by moe/fanservice/etc thread to watch this show, since it it had none of that.
__________________
Haruka & Yuu - Sakura TrickAvatar by Auxilism
Sig by TheEroKing
MAL(KagamiHiiragi)
Konakaga is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-27, 20:25   Link #256
Guardian Enzo
Seishu's Ace
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kagurazaka, Tokyo
Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
As my brother puts his criticism of Shinbou's work in Bakemonogatari, "What a pathetic attempt at post-modern artistry." His words, not mine, for the record...
Damn, I wish I'd thought up that line. Well said.
__________________
Guardian Enzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-27, 21:08   Link #257
roriconfan
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Thessaloniki - Greece
Send a message via MSN to roriconfan
Do series full of pans ever sold good? Is Bakemonogatary a pan show? Is 07 Ghost? Is Katanagatary so far?
roriconfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-27, 21:27   Link #258
Saber Cherry
Marionette
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by roriconfan View Post
Do series full of pans ever sold good? Is Bakemonogatary a pan show? Is 07 Ghost? Is Katanagatary so far?
They don't do as well as series full of no-pans.
__________________
Nipaa~
Saber Cherry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-27, 22:05   Link #259
karuroso
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
That's why i don't like to watch promos before the show air, very often they give me a different impression from what the show really is(but i think the"promo" was in the end of bakemonogatari epi13 ,if am i right...), in this case i was expecting more action...however it doesn't mean i didn't liked the epi, overall i loved it! =D
karuroso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-27, 22:08   Link #260
Avisch
Reality Blender
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Ok, I'm blown away by the first episode. Nisio Isin is now my hero.

"Don't be mistaken.....I did it for you"

Coupled with

"Number four, protect yourself, this is me being considerate of you'

Time after time again, we get tsundere hero, dere dere heroine or vice versa.

Perhaps Im so happy over something small, but I really do like the depth and complexity of the story so far. I've found usual tales of the (post) Sengoku period to have depth, but not much complexity.

Sure the whole "get these 12 swords" does ring a few bells of other anime series, but I felt I could take this one a much more seriously with the way they introduced it. As the swords here provide more of a symbolic advantage rather than true military one.

.........Also Tamura Yukari using her Kuro-Usagi voice is pure win and awesomeness.
__________________

One crazy B****
Avisch is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
action, adventure, comedy, edo setting, light novel adaptation, nishio, romance, tragedy

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 17:39.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
We use Silk.