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Old 2010-01-27, 18:19   Link #1
Cyz
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Apple IPad

Well, this is the new thing for apple. It's a tablet PC (or if you ask me, it's a giant Ipod Touch ). Anyways, I was thinking of buying it but I want to here some thoughts and opinions first.

Link: http://www.apple.com/ipad/
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Old 2010-01-27, 19:51   Link #2
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Although it looks nice, I think once the device is jailbroken, this is when the device will reach it's full potential... Not getting one at the moment since I have a iPhone 3GS and also a Macbook Pro laptop, which can do most of the tasks...

However, there are some drawbacks such as no multitasking and printing support. I see no use of the iPad itself, but it can kill devices like the Kindle and the Nook which are black and white and used mainly for reading e-books. The iBooks uses a open ebook format, so hopefully one should be able to put content onto the device... and the iPad does most of the basic tasks of a netbook (office tasks, web browsing, music, etc.) and makes them look obsolete because of the cramped keyboards, trackpads and low resolution, but the iPad is more of a Kindle killer than a Netbook killer... Netbooks in my opinion are pointless devices mainly because of the crippled hardware which doesn't make it that appealing.

Now, I hope Google will come out with some Android tablets to add more to the competition.
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Old 2010-01-27, 21:01   Link #3
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I'm withholding judgment on the iPad till there is more info on 3rd party support, applications (standard and upcoming), and etc. - excluding those for iPhone on the App Store. Price-wise, it's roughly equivalent to the netbooks, and between these and the Kindle, I see the iPad in the netbook class. The lack of a physical keyboard for web access and quick e-mails isn't a huge problem, but I already use my iPhone for both. Having the larger size is nice for the eye candy, but it means more of a headache for carrying/protecting it.

If you are using a netbook to modify documents, presentations and so on, the lack of a physical (and separate) keyboard can be a problem. Having keys to hit helps a touch typist work better, IMHO, despite the tiny keys on a netbook. Can the "soft" keyboard's size/height be adjusted, or are people stuck with the same size?

Cost-wise, it'll probably damage the Kindle's sales, but I see that as incidental. The iPad is priced higher than the Kindle, so for people who already have a netbook, do not want to carry the iPad or want its functionalities, buying a Kindle makes more sense. If people are considering the iPad for e-books only, that's a bit of a waste, IMHO, of money and its functions.

No comment on the name, though, but... the MTV clip a few years ago about the feminine hygiene product "Apple iPad" might be doing a comeback soon.
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Old 2010-01-27, 23:28   Link #4
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It's a useless piece of shit.

No physical keyboard without springing $80 for a dock. No multitasking (though iPhone OS 4.0 may change this). No real OS. Doesn't support MKV container format. Only supports AAC audio for h.264 encodes. Cannot decode h.264 above 720p in the main 3.1 profile with more than 8 reference frames. Cannot display rendered softsubs.

$300 netbook + $35 Broadcom HD Accelerator >>>>>>>>>>>>>> iPad.

Apple really failed hard with this. All they did was take an iPod Touch and make it bigger. If they really wanted to make a tablet, they should have gone with a convertible tablet notebook design running actual Snow Leopard, built on one of the ULV Core 2 Duo, perhaps an SU9400, or even a ULV Arrandale, perhaps the Core i5-520UM.

This device though is just plain stupid. It fills a niche that doesn't even exist, a niche that's filled by countless other devices that just do more besides.

But of course it's Apple, so they'll still sell a bajillion of them.
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Old 2010-01-27, 23:40   Link #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
It's a useless piece of shit.

No physical keyboard without springing $80 for a dock. No multitasking (though iPhone OS 4.0 may change this). No real OS. Doesn't support MKV container format. Only supports AAC audio for h.264 encodes. Cannot decode h.264 above 720p in the main 3.1 profile with more than 8 reference frames. Cannot display rendered softsubs.

$300 netbook + $35 Broadcom HD Accelerator >>>>>>>>>>>>>> iPad.

Apple really failed hard with this. All they did was take an iPod Touch and make it bigger. If they really wanted to make a tablet, they should have gone with a convertible tablet notebook design running actual Snow Leopard, built on one of the ULV Core 2 Duo, perhaps an SU9400, or even a ULV Arrandale, perhaps the Core i5-520UM.

This device though is just plain stupid. It fills a niche that doesn't even exist, a niche that's filled by countless other devices that just do more besides.

But of course it's Apple, so they'll still sell a bajillion of them.
It's not meant to be a full laptop replacement and your comment is what I can consider FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt). You can just convert the video file and hard sub them and they will play fine. Jailbreaking will probably solve the problem.

The advantage of using a mobile OS is that it have less overhead compared to a full OS. With a full OS, it's obviously going to use more resources and require more power, thus is why netbooks require bigger batteries just to get around the same battery life. ARM is very power efficient and it's more ideal than X86 processors for embedded devices like this.

I think netbooks are stupid because it's hardware limitations like the small keyboard and touchpad. Netbooks are just underpowered miniture notebooks and pretty much a smaller device like a smartphone can do most of the tasks of a netbook can do. Not to mention, there are laptops that are more powerful at the same price point as a netbook, so I see no point of a netbook really. Like it or not, the future is about mobile devices such as smartphones, tablets, etc where we store the information in the cloud, which is why there are things like Android and Chrome out there. Not everyone needs a full OS just to browse on the go.
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Old 2010-01-27, 23:51   Link #6
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It's about niches. I don't know a single person out of all my friends who would get an iPad and have it do anything but collect dust.

This device is trying to be both a smartphone and a laptop, but it can't do half of what either of those can do, and having both a smartphone and a laptop gives you a lot more options than anything this gives you.

Also, regarding video, you should use proper terminology. It's not converting, it's transcoding. When you transcode from one lossy format to another lossy format you experience a significant generational degradation of quality.

Maybe some people will get some use out of this thing, but personally I don't see how it replaces or even supplements anything.

I have much more interest in ARM-based smartbooks with full hardware keyboards running actual OSes such as Ubuntu. I have many complaints with the netbook platform, and I think that by yanking the x86 processor in favor of a power-efficient ARM setup (Tegra 2, kthx) to get much more battery life without heavy 6-cell batteries, while still having all the flexibility and power of a full-blown Linux OS.

To me the smartbook is the best of all worlds. It is the obvious evolution of the netbook, throwing out redesigned old laptop x86 processors in favor of super-efficient ARM SoCs, but you still retain the benefit of the device behaving almost entirely like a tiny laptop. That's what really bothers me about both smartphones and tablets like this--they just can't do what I need them to do.

I don't want to have to transcode my video and suffer quality losses, not to mention unless I'm rocking an i7 desktop, transcoding isn't exactly fast. When you're sitting there transcoding multiple series, you're looking at hours if not days of processing.

The iPad is not a netbook killer. It's not even in the same niche. I'm not even sure what niche it's in, but what I do know is it is impossible to touch-type on a keyboard that doesn't actually have physical buttons. And seriously, modern netbooks aren't the eee PC 701. Most of them have keyboards that are just as comfortable to type on as a larger laptop's.
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Old 2010-01-28, 00:07   Link #7
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your calling this new device a niche?

i said the same thing for iPhone... boy i was sooo wrong.

iPhone is now synonymous with smart phones.


I wouldn't bet against excellent apple marketing and its hardware/software departments... everything they've touch turned to gold. They ain't the same Apple inc of the 90s...
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Old 2010-01-28, 00:30   Link #8
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I'm saying this device doesn't fill any specific niche. For the life of me I can't think of something the iPad can do that a number of other devices cannot do better, faster and cheaper.

So I'm finding myself wondering, what's the point of this thing?

I suppose that if I can't figure out what the iPad is for, I am definitely not the target audience.
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Old 2010-01-28, 01:26   Link #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mg1942 View Post
your calling this new device a niche?

i said the same thing for iPhone... boy i was sooo wrong.

iPhone is now synonymous with smart phones.


I wouldn't bet against excellent apple marketing and its hardware/software departments... everything they've touch turned to gold. They ain't the same Apple inc of the 90s...
Some Apple projects actually don't end up being huge hits - the Apple TV comes to mind.

I'm not saying the iPad will end up being one of the "forgotten" Apple products like the Apple TV, but I kind of doubt that it's going to be as popular as the iPhone either. The iPhone had significant advantages compared to the devices most people were using and very few disadvantages. The iPad, from what I can see, has quite a few compromises.

I basically fall into the same category as Synaesthetic when it comes to the iPad. I cannot see a scenario in which I would use the iPad in which I couldn't do the task just as well with my friends Asus 1008HE netbook, which is cheaper. I can think of scenarios where I'd find the Asus' capabilities quite useful.

Edit:
The way I see it, the main appeal of this device is mainly to people looking at something like the Kindle but whom want better web browsing capabilities, not netbook users. So yeah, that explains the lack of appeal to people like Synaesthetic and I right there. I also suspect it'll be more popular after a couple price cuts.
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Old 2010-01-28, 02:34   Link #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
This device is trying to be both a smartphone and a laptop, but it can't do half of what either of those can do, and having both a smartphone and a laptop gives you a lot more options than anything this gives you.
Is it? I get the impression that they are distinctly trying not to be a laptop or a PC in the traditional sense. The way everyone hyped it up as a tablet probably got us all into the wrong mindset. This isn't a netbook or a laptop, it's just.... a gadget. A gadget for reading books, websites, watching movies....basically consuming media in general. It seems like they build it pretty firmly around that idea. In a way it's a daring move to try and squeeze in a new place for a product in people's lives rather than just doing their version of something that already exists. I don't know how successful it will be, but I do think that people's mixed reactions are in large part due to the ingrained expectation we had for some kind of traditional computing device.
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Old 2010-01-28, 03:16   Link #11
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I'd rather just buy a Macbook Pro instead of this..

Because of it's half/half functions I don't like it.. I like reading ebooks, yes great but the thing is bigger than your average ereader... I'd like to watch movies, but when doing that I'd like to have other pc functions as well such as chat and game and set it down so a group can watch allong.. The only thing I can compliment about is its flatness and size, the rest sounds like your bmacbook just made out with your ereader and spawned some retarded half functioning machine
As a student that uses pc's all the time it is rather useless, why if having a laptop, would you buy this if not to smear in people's face that you got a gadget
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Old 2010-01-28, 04:13   Link #12
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Personally, I'm underwhelmed by the thing... but then its a bit early. Ya'll keep saying wait til its jailbroken..... why is it "in jail" in the first place and there is that "bricking" antic Apple has pulled.
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Old 2010-01-28, 05:53   Link #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
It's a useless piece of shit.
This.

Also
Spoiler:
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Old 2010-01-28, 07:31   Link #14
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I can see some practical uses for the iPad, but in all honesty, I suspect many, if not most, of the initial adopters will just want it for the "cool" and "flash" factors. You know, take it to the cafe, flash it around, and watch Apple groupies drool over its coolness while its owner pretend it is really nothing special?

Some possible uses, IMHO, would be by new parents using it to connect to those baby monitors remotely, architects and construction managers using it to show clients the plans/blueprints on site, and so on. You can do that with a laptop or a small monitor, but having something light, thin and easier to hold is better. The presentation by Steve Jobs just has it looking like a giant iPhone-like electronic device, and for those functions, I'd rather use a laptop or a smartphone instead of carrying around another piece of hardware. I myself wouldn't buy the iPad for doing that kind of "work".
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Old 2010-01-28, 13:40   Link #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post
Some Apple projects actually don't end up being huge hits - the Apple TV comes to mind.

I'm not saying the iPad will end up being one of the "forgotten" Apple products like the Apple TV, but I kind of doubt that it's going to be as popular as the iPhone either. The iPhone had significant advantages compared to the devices most people were using and very few disadvantages. The iPad, from what I can see, has quite a few compromises.

I basically fall into the same category as Synaesthetic when it comes to the iPad. I cannot see a scenario in which I would use the iPad in which I couldn't do the task just as well with my friends Asus 1008HE netbook, which is cheaper. I can think of scenarios where I'd find the Asus' capabilities quite useful.

Edit:
The way I see it, the main appeal of this device is mainly to people looking at something like the Kindle but whom want better web browsing capabilities, not netbook users. So yeah, that explains the lack of appeal to people like Synaesthetic and I right there. I also suspect it'll be more popular after a couple price cuts.
If this thing had a Pixel Qi hybrid display, especially with a price very close to that of most e-readers, I'd say it'd completely smash them. As it is right now, I'm much more interested in the Notion Ink tablet, which does have a Pixel Qi display.

As it is now, I don't see the iPad competing strongly in the e-reader space. Why? It doesn't have an eInk display. That's the whole point of an e-reader; the eInk displays are much, much easier on the eyes--and also on battery life. When this little gadget was announced, I was really surprised and disappointed in Apple that they did not put a Pixel Qi hybrid display in it.

I have very little interest in a slate like the iPad, but I have a lot of interest in an e-reader because of the display. Reading on a standard LCD screen gets tiring, but I can read off an eInk display just as if I were reading off a piece of paper. That's the whole point, and the iPad's lack of a Pixel Qi display just kills it dead.

Speaking of niches, when netbooks first came out, they tried to make a niche for themselves (a cheap web browser) but ended up shoehorned into a totally different niche which was previously filled by old, used laptops. The cheap knockaround computer niche.

Most of the people I know who own netbooks (myself included) pick a netbook because they need a cheap computer that can do basic productivity tasks and communication. Really, I don't see why people come down on netbooks so hard; for the average user, they're a hell of a lot more practical than two-ton budget notebooks, and cheaper to boot. If you're looking for someone to attack, attack Intel for purposely making the Atom CPU slower than necessary and not playing nice with nvidia.

Edit: http://notionink.wordpress.com/

This is what the iPad needs to beat. Tegra 2. Pixel Qi display. Full 1080p playback. Has USB ports. Has expandable memory. Runs Android, so with adroit hackery, putting other Linux distros on it shouldn't be impossible...

Yes, I know it's not out yet, but damn... it's nice.
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Old 2010-01-28, 14:50   Link #16
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From the FSF, a comment on the underlying DRM issues:

Quote:
"SAN FRANCISCO, California, USA -- Wednesday, January 27, 2010 -- As Steve Jobs and Apple prepared to announce their new tablet device, activists opposed to Digital Restrictions Management (DRM) from the group Defective by Design were on hand to draw the media's attention to the increasing restrictions that Apple is placing on general purpose computers. The group set up "Apple Restriction Zones" along the approaches to the Yerba Buena Center for the Arts in San Francisco, informing journalists of the rights they would have to give up to Apple before proceeding inside.
DRM is used by Apple to restrict users' freedom in a variety of ways, including blocking installation of software that comes from anywhere except the official Application Store, and regulating every use of movies downloaded from iTunes. Apple furthermore claims that circumventing these restrictions is a criminal offense, even for purposes that are permitted by copyright law.
Organizing the protest, Free Software Foundation (FSF) operations manager John Sullivan said, "Our Defective by Design campaign has a successful history of targeting Apple over its DRM policies. We organized actions and protests targeting iTunes music DRM outside Apple stores, and under the pressure Steve Jobs dropped DRM on music. We're here today to send the same message about the other restrictions Apple is imposing on software, ebooks, and movies. If Jobs and Apple are actually committed to creativity, freedom, and individuality, they should prove it by eliminating the restrictions that make creativity and freedom illegal."
The group is asking citizens to sign a petition calling on Steve Jobs to remove DRM from Apple devices. The petition can be found at: http://www.defectivebydesign.org/ipad
"Attention needs to be paid to the computing infrastructure our society is becoming dependent upon. This past year, we have seen how human rights and democracy protesters can have the technology they use turned against them by the corporations who supply the products and services they rely on. Your computer should be yours to control. By imposing such restrictions on users, Steve Jobs is building a legacy that endangers our freedom for his profits," said FSF executive director Peter Brown.
Other critics of DRM have asserted that Apple is not responsible, and it is the publishers insisting on the restrictions. However, on the iPhone and its new tablet, Apple does not provide publishers any way to opt out of the restrictions -- even free software and free culture authors who want to give legal permission for users to share their works.
"This is a huge step backward in the history of computing," said FSF's Holmes Wilson, "If the first personal computers required permission from the manufacturer for each new program or new feature, the history of computing would be as dismally totalitarian as the milieu in Apple's famous Super Bowl ad."
My comment is that the iPad must be construed as a device like a microwave or toaster rather than a "personal computer". Problem is... once I BUY my toaster, I'm free to hack the living daylights out of it. Whereas, I'm apparently breaking several laws if I hack the iPad or exercise my rights under copyright law -- a device I *purchased*.

The iPad has some lovely uses.... but replacing a personal computer isn't one of them.
(edit: no, haven't purchased one yet... assessing if there's some reason to. MY *wife* might find one useful but she's rather attached to the notion of real physical keyboards)
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Old 2010-01-28, 14:56   Link #17
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Replacing other slates isn't one of them, either. As I just mentioned, the Notion Ink slate is pretty much better on every aspect--plus, running Android and whatnot, it's nice and open.

Yes it's not out yet but neither is the iPad (2 more months).
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Old 2010-01-28, 17:24   Link #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
From the FSF, a comment on the underlying DRM issues:
More FUD campaigning from the FSF, likewise with their campaign with Windows 7 Sins with DRM and other stuff, so there's no surprise there. Buyers should vote with their wallet if they want or not want to buy a device. Simple as that. Also, if you want to jailbreak your device like I usually do, no company should have the right to say no... Not to mention, other closed devices like the Wii, PSP and PS3 also got hacked to run homebrew, although Nintendo and Sony doesn't want you to do so.

I do see some purposes it can make... A slate tablet can be used to manage computers via VNC and SSHing on the go and some other stuff. iPad is probably like Chrome OS, a device that interact with the cloud and it seems these days it's gearing towards like that with cloud services like Google Docs, Amazon S5 or Rackspace, etc.

Yes, the device needs to be more open like the Google Android, which is a perfect example of a open device. Once issue with the Android however is the usual privacy issues with Google.
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Old 2010-01-28, 18:25   Link #19
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Its not "FUD" if they're simply listing the DRM "features" of a device and objecting to them. Buyers should have that information to decide whether they think the crippling is worth it or not.

And.... you say no company should have the right to prevent you from jailbreaking. I agree with you but hey... its currently *illegal* to do so thanks to DRM laws and they can brick you at will should they feel like it.

The google issues and cloud computing privacy issues are generalized problems with all communications and computing trends so iPad is no different in that regard.
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Old 2010-01-29, 03:46   Link #20
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@Theowne:
Well, like I said... the thing is an e-reader with extensive multimedia capabilities. And I actually do think from a sheer "cool" standpoint it's hard to beat the iPad. The problem for me comes with the fact that's it's in the saem price range as quite a few devices I would find more versitle.

@Synaesthetic:
Nice find on the Pixel Qi display there, that does look like an interesting bit of tech. I suspect that Apple didn't go with it because of the viewing angles... I do hear it's the weakness of the tech and Apple actually bothered to throw an IPS panel in the iPad, which gets great viewing angles but isn't exactly cheap.
I can't say the backlit screen is as big a deal for me as some of the other compromises, but then again, I read PDF files of academic journal articles on both my home computer and my Inspiron 1501 all the time so maybe I'm just used to it. The *software* solution to the problem would be to just put light text on a dark background but I suspect many would balk at reading an ebook that way.


Also, to tell the truth, I think that the idea of ebooks on the iPhone or similar device makes more sense to me than using the iPad for them. A smartphone is pocketable and can be operated with one hand while on a crowded bus. iPad... not so much.
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