AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > General > General Chat

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2010-01-29, 20:57   Link #5841
Ansalem
Speaker
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosauz View Post
Simple math here... 6 billion sold 11 billion promised... therefore 5 billion free, not hard. This action is because the Japanese are starting to voice their dissent with America's role in their government, and America's power in south east asia. Imperialism is not befitting of an "enlightened" society.
Just from the article, it seems to imply that there was a promise of $11 billion in sales that has been fulfilled in parts since the deal was made, and that this $6 billion one (a large) part of that, not that we're selling $6 and giving $5 billion all at once.
__________________
Ansalem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-29, 20:57   Link #5842
Nosauz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Age: 25
[QUOTE=justinstrife;2891121]11 billion worth of arms is what Taiwan and the U.S. had agreed upon in 2001. It's been divided into parts due to budgetary constraints on Taiwan's side. We didn't GIVE THEM ANYTHING FOR FREE.

Quote:
The sale satisfies parts of an $11 billion arms package originally pledged to Taiwan by former President George W. Bush in 2001, which has been provided in stages because of political and budgetary considerations in Taiwan and the United States.[/quote
If it was a sale budgetary constraints would not be an issue, budgetary constraints only occur when you try to print money, or give stuff you don't have... If it was a sale.. then budgetary constraints wouldn't be a factor because goods for money, and for arms deals, america would recieve money first and not the other way around.
Nosauz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-29, 20:59   Link #5843
justinstrife
Queen Sheryl's Protector
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: John Galt Railroad
Age: 34
Send a message via AIM to justinstrife Send a message via Skype™ to justinstrife
[QUOTE=Nosauz;2891126]
Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
11 billion worth of arms is what Taiwan and the U.S. had agreed upon in 2001. It's been divided into parts due to budgetary constraints on Taiwan's side. We didn't GIVE THEM ANYTHING FOR FREE.



If it was a sale budgetary constraints would not be an issue, budgetary constraints only occur when you try to print money, or give stuff you don't have...
Do you think Taiwan can just go and spend 11 billion in military supplies from the United States in one go? Their economy is nowhere near as big as many of the countries around the world. They can't spend hundreds of billions a year on a military like say America, China, or Russia.
justinstrife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-29, 21:00   Link #5844
justinstrife
Queen Sheryl's Protector
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: John Galt Railroad
Age: 34
Send a message via AIM to justinstrife Send a message via Skype™ to justinstrife
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ansalem View Post
Just from the article, it seems to imply that there was a promise of $11 billion in sales that has been fulfilled in parts since the deal was made, and that this $6 billion one (a large) part of that, not that we're selling $6 and giving $5 billion all at once.
Thank you for your clarity Ansalem.


I can't even praise Obama on an action without someone misreading what I say, or what an article I link says.
justinstrife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-29, 21:03   Link #5845
Nosauz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Age: 25
[QUOTE=justinstrife;2891128]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosauz View Post

Do you think Taiwan can just go and spend 11 billion in military supplies from the United States in one go? Their economy is nowhere near as big as many of the countries around the world. They can't spend hundreds of billions a year on a military like say America, China, or Russia.
GDP (Nominal) (2007) $383.3 billion (ranked 24th)
GDP (PPP) (2007) $695.4 billion (ranked 19th)

Taken from wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Taiwan

Based on that level of gdp, any loan would have been able to approved and considering they have the 19th highest 11billion isn't as much as you make it seem to be. So if this was strictly a purchase I don't see any issue other than straight payment.

Quote:
The sale satisfies parts of an $11 billion arms package
Does not state whether this is strictly arms purchases, what are people supposed to think. Arm package.. not arms sale, deal or any other word that infers money exchanged for goods.
Nosauz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-29, 21:07   Link #5846
justinstrife
Queen Sheryl's Protector
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: John Galt Railroad
Age: 34
Send a message via AIM to justinstrife Send a message via Skype™ to justinstrife
[QUOTE=Nosauz;2891131]
Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post

GDP (Nominal) (2007) $383.3 billion (ranked 24th)
GDP (PPP) (2007) $695.4 billion (ranked 19th)

Taken from wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Taiwan

Based on that level of gdp, any loan would have been able to approved and considering they have the 19th highest 11billion isn't as much as you make it seem to be. So if this was strictly a purchase I don't see any issue other than straight payment.
Well nowhere in the article did it say that the Taiwanese were given anything. Only that the U.S. was selling them $6 billion in Arms, and mentioned an $11 billion dollar package promised back in 2001. America doesn't just give that kind of arms to a country. They might give them a sale price with some kick-backs, but we don't just give our high tech stuff away for free.

You accused, but you have no proof. The language used in the article is fine. You are just choosing to read it to mean something else.
justinstrife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-29, 21:09   Link #5847
Nosauz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Age: 25
[QUOTE=justinstrife;2891135]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosauz View Post

Well nowhere in the article did it say that the Taiwanese were given anything. Only that the U.S. was selling them $6 billion in Arms, and mentioned an $11 billion dollar package promised back in 2001. America doesn't just give that kind of arms to a country. They might give them a sale price with some kick-backs, but we don't just give our high tech stuff away for free.
cough israel cough... and even if it's not given... the super reduced prices, and the countless blueprints to US military tech, is clear that the United States is willing to support those that it deems worthy. Let's not even mention the CIA who we have zero insight on their actions. The CIA is know for giving free arms... note: Afghanistan, Cuba, Nicaragua etc.
Nosauz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-29, 21:43   Link #5848
bbqsauced
Stoned.
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Somewhere in the northeast US.
Age: 27
Send a message via AIM to bbqsauced
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Aye, I keep an eye on the private ventures... however, so far none have actually *put* anything in orbit and the actual costs are still unknown.

Going to the moon... isn't a stunt. There's a lot of science to do on the moon (e.g. farside radio telescopy... big ones). Its excellent practice for going farther (like Mars/asteroids/Titan but with some possible of recovering from errors while testing technologies). It is true that there's little point in climbing out of one gravity well to drop into another... but its a much cheaper gravity well for launching large deep space craft.

The rest of the world is appalled that we're considering shutting down the ISS... something they've ALL contributed to - our first real multi-nation experience - just as we're finishing the main construction.

Not the end.... but definitely not a good moment and there's something to be said for loss of momentum.
I feel like we already lost the momentum quite a while ago. Things might look grim from the U.S. point of view, but I still feel that all it would take for us to get back into it is for someone else to take the next giant leap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
so are you also in favor of private companies selling piece of real estate on the moon? that is what is going to happen if a private company gets base setup first vs the government.
First of all, do you think this is really NOT going to happen? Even if the government is the first to set up shop, if they can prove that living up there is possible and there is a market for selling real estate, you can damn well be sure that it's going to be taken over anyhow.

I'm not really in favor of private companies at all, but at this point I've come to accept that there is a slim chance for an alternative, at least for the U.S.

First and foremost, I want to see us actually make the move. Get our asses out there in space. You have to do that first before you worry about anything else.
bbqsauced is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-29, 21:50   Link #5849
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
Quote:
so are you also in favor of private companies selling piece of real estate on the moon? that is what is going to happen if a private company gets base setup first vs the government.
Um.. there are already treaties in place concerning the Moon. It is to be treated like the Antarctic as a "mutually shared zone for science".

Not to say that some company won't *try* for some exclusive whatever arrangement.
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-29, 22:05   Link #5850
mg1942
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight Hawk View Post
Surprised this wasn't put up yet, with all the talk.

Obama Goes To GOP Lions' Den -- And Mauls The Lions
I watched it on cable news

it's almost like britain's 'question time' without going over the top
mg1942 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-29, 22:14   Link #5851
Haruka_Kitten
The AnimeSuki Pet kitten
*IT Support
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: A furry den
Age: 21
Send a message via MSN to Haruka_Kitten Send a message via Yahoo to Haruka_Kitten Send a message via Skype™ to Haruka_Kitten
Quote:
Originally Posted by mg1942 View Post
I watched it on cable news

it's almost like britain's 'question time' without going over the top
Yeah question time sounds like a ball....1000 guys sitting in a room yelling at each other
__________________
"That bus! It has an awesome ring to it!"
Haruka_Kitten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-29, 22:19   Link #5852
hinakatbklyn
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
So all it took for the NY mayor to decide not to have the 9/11 trial here is the cost of the trial. (Relying on the radio so the report may not be out yet).
hinakatbklyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-29, 22:23   Link #5853
Xellos-_^
Married
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Um.. there are already treaties in place concerning the Moon. It is to be treated like the Antarctic as a "mutually shared zone for science".

Not to say that some company won't *try* for some exclusive whatever arrangement.
2 methods come immediately to mind.

1. possession is 9/10 of the law. if a private company is first up and claim stake they will probably find enough backers both financially and political to back thier claim.

2. find a country that didn't sign the treaties and set up a corp HQ there. then claim the fact that the country are in didn't sign the treaty so the treaty don't applied to them.
__________________
Xellos-_^ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-29, 22:45   Link #5854
james0246
Senior Member
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
U.S. to Move 9/11 Trial From New York City, Official Says

Quote:
The Obama administration on Friday gave up on its plan to try the Sept. 11 plotters in Lower Manhattan, bowing to almost unanimous pressure from New York officials and business leaders to move the terrorism trial elsewhere.

“I think I can acknowledge the obvious,” an administration official said. “We’re considering other options.”

The reversal on whether to try the alleged 9/11 terrorists blocks from the former World Trade Center site seemed to come suddenly this week, after Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg abandoned his strong support for the plan and said the cost and disruption would be too great.

But behind the brave face that many New Yorkers had put on for weeks, resistance had been gathering steam.

continued...
I can't say that I am shocked, but I am a bit disheartened. They (New York officials and Presidential officials) didn't even attempt some sort of "change of venue" excuse (which I would have at least considered acceptable), instead choosing an "economic" excuse (which, while valid, does seem like they are pasing the buck) to avoid the issue.
james0246 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-29, 23:08   Link #5855
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
2 methods come immediately to mind.

1. possession is 9/10 of the law. if a private company is first up and claim stake they will probably find enough backers both financially and political to back thier claim.

2. find a country that didn't sign the treaties and set up a corp HQ there. then claim the fact that the country are in didn't sign the treaty so the treaty don't applied to them.
Actually... my bad. I didn't realize the treaty was never ratified. Looks like "anything goes".... expect to see "Coca-cola" sprawled across the Full Moon like the light show on their moon in Basquatch......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_Treaty
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-29, 23:17   Link #5856
Xellos-_^
Married
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Actually... my bad. I didn't realize the treaty was never ratified. Looks like "anything goes".... expect to see "Coca-cola" sprawled across the Full Moon like the light show on their moon in Basquatch......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_Treaty
the international treaties are about as valuable as the paper it is printed (probably less).
__________________
Xellos-_^ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-30, 09:04   Link #5857
JMvS
Rawrrr!
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: CH aka Chocaholic Heaven
Age: 30
Aye, it will be for sure a game of whomever gets there first and can keep the place has it.

Especially if nobody else has the mean to make a valid claim by reaching the place, unlike for Antarctica which pretty much every maritime country could reach by the end of the 19th century.

On the contrary, as these places gets more and more reachable and exploitable, I get the feeling that the Law of the Sea and the Antarctic Treaty System will soon fall into oblivion.
__________________
JMvS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-30, 17:11   Link #5858
mg1942
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Is this what sets USA apart from the rest of the developed world?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8474611.stm
(should the term American Exceptionalism apply here?)
mg1942 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-30, 20:16   Link #5859
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by mg1942 View Post
Is this what sets USA apart from the rest of the developed world?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8474611.stm
(should the term American Exceptionalism apply here?)
A variation on "you just can't win with some folks..."
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-30, 21:25   Link #5860
iLney
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
"Why do people often vote against their interests?"

Skimmed through: Bush, Gore, anger, right-wing politics.

/fail

In all seriousness, define "interests." They go as far as people's intelligence can carry. However, sometimes the shortest way is the best way.

Quote:
Is this what sets USA apart from the rest of the developed world?
In a sense, yes (if you mean that Americans are the only people who are capable of voting against their "interests"). And I'm pretty proud of it
iLney is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
current affairs, discussion, international, news

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 23:40.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.