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Old 2010-02-01, 13:18   Link #1221
Kaiba
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Don't have the link, but I'll rewrite it. And sort of George-centric.

The key difference this time is the conversation at the beach and the discussion over Battler's memories. Battler explicitly states there that not only does he not remember anything that occured 6 years ago, he doesn't want to remember, which goes ahead to cause Shannon that jarring Battler's head is pointless and the promise he made to her will never be fulfilled to her. The result is she wants out, as she no longer has any interest in the murders if she can't confront Battler and see if he'll remember.
Shannon later confronts George over this, and tells him she wants out, and possibly even threatens to reveal everything, which causes George to completely panic. George ends up killing Shannon, even under the emotions of passion or desperation or possibly purely as an accident - say trying to knock her out to keep her out of the way but kills her by accident. This occurs during the night, even before the First Twilight.
In a way to cover up Shannon's death, George recruits Nanjo and decides to do the first twilight so that way everyone will think that the murders were committed by the witch - no one will think that the goals of the first twilight was just to cover up the death of ONE person, after all. He possibly tells Nanjo the location of the gold (I think it is possible George know the location of the gold through Shannon, though I'm not sure. Shannon I'm very certain does know.) as a way to lure him into line and so the two end up killing the servants.

George in this scenario I think acts much more hastily and less rationally this time, as he's still dealing with the trauma of killing Shannon with his own hands (I'm also all but certain from what I know about Episode 6 that George sincerely loves Shannon - I'm just less than certain about the other way around.) While he possibly may have been planning to kill everyone afterwards, I argue he collapsed completely out of guilt after the First Twilight and afterwards for most of the Third Episode remains comatose and not doing much - which is exactly what we seem him do throughout the episode, as he seems to take Shannon's death significantly harder in the Third Episode than the first, as he is still moping about it some time significantly afterwards.

As a result, Nanjo takes control as Shannon (and Genji, whom I suspect as an accomplice) are dead, and George is in a state of shock and guilt, and decides to kill/stake people so they can be out of the way as he transports the gold safely. I suspect him for a ton of the murders, with the exception of Rudolf, Kyrie, and Hideyoshi, whom have a confrontation naturally, though I argue at the time none of them suspect Nanjo.
George slips to the main house so he can see Shannon, and I would say it's possible he decides to confess everything out of regret. However, Nanjo kills him to keep his mouth shut. However, I think one of Kyrie, Rudolf, and Hideyoshi saw him do it, and simply waited, as they couldn't do anything at the time.
That person kills Nanjo, Battler accuses a half-insane Eva who responds by shooting him, and so it's only Eva and Jessica. Eva heads to Kuwadorian (I'm not sure why she was there to begin with, in the end, as I'm not certain she ever found the gold) and Jessica dies in the resulting explosion, which I also subscribe to.

That's the short version of it. As you can see, Shannon in this arc is frankly completely innocent, according to my thesis.

Now of course, I would ask specifically: how does Kyrietrice explain the First Twilight of that anyways? I guess she could recruit Nanjo, but there is absolutely no way Kyrie herself could have committed those murders.
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Old 2010-02-01, 13:53   Link #1222
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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
Wut. When did this happen.
I just installed the English patch.

I wonder if you remembered these "details" (including Maria-related and others)

EP1

when Shannon first entered the dining room to serve the tea, because of her clusmsiness, Natsuhi was pretty angry. Kyrie tried to help Shannon by asking the brand of the tea she was serving, but Shannon did not know, then she apologied to Shannon for not being able to help.

- I wonder why a ruthless, rational person like Kyrie would like to help Shannon like George in EP2.

Latter, when Battler's group were going out for the sea, Kyrie specically reminded Battler to look after Maria.

(BTW, in EP1's dinner, when Maria was reading out the letter, Nanjo said he remembered Kinzo not wearing his ring when he was playing chess with him. The question is: if Kinzo died one and a half year ago, how come he remembered not wearing the ring? And the next question is: why he had to say that when he made the agreement that not to expose Kinzo's death? The third question is: even he did so such that it looked like Kinzo was still alive around that time, why did he say he remembered Kinzo not wearing his ring rather than Kinzo should be wearing his ring, why did Nanjo have to support what the letter said?)

When Kyrie was talking how the siblings were treating Maria after the letter, she commented "even though she's just a little girl, everyone has been just chewing her up over this. They really scared her,....I wonder if those people have ever even read "The North Wind and the Sun".......But this key is being obstinately closed up inside her heart. Everyone denied the existence of the witch without listening to her, and barraged her too much with questions about who Beatrice actually was.......Maria-chan probably won't open her heart to the adults now" The only person who still paid attention to and emphasized Maria's feeling was Kyrie, not even Eva, Hideyoshi, Rudolf and Krauss could do so. She was the only one who proposed people accepted her saying and listening to her first.Then she proposed to Battler to cheer Maria up as Kyrie knew he as a kid was probably a better candidate.

EP2:

The only people who said hi to Maria were Hideyoshi and Kyrie at the airport.

After Maria spoke out in front of everyone about Halloween, and Beatrice taking her to Golden Land. Eva giggled, Rosa reprimanded, Kyrie said "Don't worry about it. Rosa-san. It's a dream that any girl has at one time or another."

Latter, in the guesthouse, Kyrie said to Rosa"We sometimes forget that girls have their own little world. Sometimes, we have to respect that, right?"

And then latter in the parlor, Kyrie was talking with Rosa, first they talked about weather, then Kyrie suddenly switched the topic to Maria ".........Maria-chan really has grown a lot this past year. " "Yes. It's because she has such an affectionate mother. Kids with a rich heart grow." (sarcasm, everyone could observe that Rosa was treating Maria badly, of course perceptive Kyrie would know that. The question is: why Kyrie had to say that even if she knew it risked angering Rosa)

"Rosa-san, you spedn every day with Maria-chan, so you probably don't notice any small changes. But the rest of us, who have been reunited with her after a year, really understand that she's grown up a lot..." Only kyrie made this kind of comment. Why Kyrie had to talk about Maria everytime she talked with Rosa, and she constantly praised Maria (just compared it to Eva)? And did anyone else really pay that attention to Maria?

".....Just once, I want to drink a nice, long cup of tea with you, Rosa-san, when you aren't attending a family conference. There's a wonderful coffee shop in Ginza which is a favourite of mine...." It seemed that Kyrie was really eager to talk with Rosa about family matter. BTW, do you remember where Rosa went to meet her siblings in EP5 when they were having nice chat about their plan to exhort Krauss?

Then Kyrie reminded her the weather is turning bad. Right after Rosa running out, Rudolf asked what was going on with her, then she responded "It's fine, right? She'll be right back. .... More importantly, should we begin?" It is as if she didn't want others to know Rosa went out to look for Maria, and then ".........." (why showing this scene?)

Kyrie was surprised by Natsuhi and she said she was fasinated by "the portrait", so she was looking at the portrait at the moment. It may mean nothing, just a reminder here.

And she was the one who asked Gohda to call the Beatrice before Rosa'sletter was even read out, is it in Beatrice's plan that Beatrice predicted that Kyrie would do so when she met Kyrie in the entrance?

EP3:

(Kyrie's said something during the dinner, admittedly it can be easily dismissed as tactics rather than eager words)

She basically controlled the tide of the family meeting after they stopped arguing with each other such that all siblings accpeted the existence of a living old lady on the island.

The moment she stepped out the dining room, she already said what was this strong smell, even though the narration said that the smell was not strong at all.

On the epitaph part, Kyrie said it was her first time to really read the epitaph. Do you believe what she said? And her reasoning just pointed Eva and Rosa to the answer.

She proposed to go out, we knew she found a used cigarette in Eva's room. Now the question is, why did she have to go at length to isolate Hideyoshi for the disappearance of Eva when Kyrie said that police would find out the culprits? Why taking all the risk to expose Eva, knowing that Hideyoshi was probably covering Eva? And if she was not the culprit, why she had to take the risk of getting themselves exposed to the murderer who killed the sixes? Really not rational...

(In battle with Leviathan, Kyrie said Rudolf would always come to save her when she was in trouble, on a white horse. Surely Battler learnt it from his dad...)


I have presented some of the clues to how Kyrie cares for Maria (For EP4 and EP5, hey they don't allow me to jump to the chapter as I did not finish it once. EP6, I don't understand Japanese completely), don't say there was none. I advise rereading those scenes I posted here and get the meaning. But I was quite sure some of you would say these are red-herring, over-exaggerating, it seemed that few of us had actually pointed them out, particularly for Kyrie talking Maria's scenes.
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Last edited by ijriims; 2010-02-02 at 13:47.
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Old 2010-02-01, 14:10   Link #1223
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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
Now of course, I would ask specifically: how does Kyrietrice explain the First Twilight of that anyways? I guess she could recruit Nanjo, but there is absolutely no way Kyrie herself could have committed those murders.
Short answer: Genji killed the other fours, burnt Kinzo's body, drew all the magic circles. Kyrie used the time to have "make-up" and "washroom time" to arrive at VIP room and killed Genji (as said in the TIPS, since he was truly Kyrie's trusted accomplice), then she locked the rooms (doesn't take more than 10 minutes I presume, since 5 rooms were in the mansion, though 1 was in chapel), or Nanjo locked the rooms.

One major problem of your theory is that if George knew the location of the gold (which was not enough, he had to know the answer of the epitaph as well), then he could just like Battler in EP5 presented the gold to the family and resolved all their conflicts. Why didn't he do so in other episodes (or you mean he specifically was told the answer of the epitaph in EP3)?

Another problem is that George did not go down the stairs of the guesthouse, so if he could kill Krauss and Natsuhi, do you mean he called Krauss and Natsuhi to the second floor and then straggled them and threw them out to the window, latter jumping out through the window? Why didn't he just go down to the ground floor? Was Eva an accomplice as well?
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Last edited by ijriims; 2010-02-01 at 14:26.
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Old 2010-02-01, 15:14   Link #1224
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Originally Posted by LyricalAura View Post
And then: I acknowledge that all other people (excluding Kinzo) are in the cousins' room. Regardless of Shkannon, this certainly erases Erika -- because although she excluded Kinzo from "all other people," she never excluded herself.
The problem with Erika not existing is that it doesn't matter for Ep6's final red: there is STILL one more person who doesn't exist, and the ONLY person that can be is Shannon or Kanon, since Battler has seen EVERYONE else together, dead or alive, at some point in the first four games, unless there's some tiny, not-hinted-at exception.

Of course, I could be misunderstanding too. If so, please correct me.

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
Wut. When did this happen.
It didn't. He made it up, just like he does everything else.

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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
That and Erika's POV in Episode 5 (unless again, people claim Bernkastel is doing the moron, using an unreliable POV instead of Erika who is next to both Shannon and Kanon for several instances).
Eh? As far as I know, Erika's POV is never used in Ep5.

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Originally Posted by ijriims View Post
*snip*
Kyrie is interested in Maria because she has a daughter of about the same age. Isn't that a much simpler explanation?
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Old 2010-02-01, 15:18   Link #1225
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
It didn't. He made it up, just like he does everything else.
Actually in EP 2, Kyrie talks to Rosa and says that its good for a girl her age to have a hobby like that and what not about about dreams.
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Old 2010-02-01, 15:19   Link #1226
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Eh? As far as I know, Erika's POV is never used in Ep5.
It never was for us readers, however I doubt Erika would be fooled by the "unreliable narration" when her piece is around, otherwise it goes against her detective authority and knox rules.
By this, I find it extremely stupid for Bernkastel not to use her POV as Erika is 100% truthworthy, instead of relying on Battler, who could definitely be affected by the usual "unreliable narration/perspective" plague.

She is one of the characters that know best about the shrodinger cat box concept, so leaving room to be fooled herself is totally silly. Unless...
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Old 2010-02-01, 15:20   Link #1227
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Actually in EP 2, Kyrie talks to Rosa and says that its good for a girl her age to have a hobby like that and what not about about dreams.
Well, like I just said, she has a daughter who is close in age.
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Old 2010-02-01, 16:49   Link #1228
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One major problem of your theory is that if George knew the location of the gold (which was not enough, he had to know the answer of the epitaph as well), then he could just like Battler in EP5 presented the gold to the family and resolved all their conflicts. Why didn't he do so in other episodes (or you mean he specifically was told the answer of the epitaph in EP3)?
Isn't the answer of the epitaph the location of the gold?
And George has no interest in resolving the family conflicts. It doesn't matter if the family is lovey-dovey or hates each other, his goal is to marry Shannon, and he will stop at anything to get that. How the other idiotic members of the family has nothing to do with that.

Quote:
Another problem is that George did not go down the stairs of the guesthouse, so if he could kill Krauss and Natsuhi, do you mean he called Krauss and Natsuhi to the second floor and then straggled them and threw them out to the window, latter jumping out through the window? Why didn't he just go down to the ground floor? Was Eva an accomplice as well?
I didn't say George did it. I don't think George committed any murders after the First Twilight as he seemed to be largely doing nothing throughout the entire episode according to Battler. I think Nanjo did it, though admittedly I'm not sure how. Either way, the only ones who I believe could have done it were Nanjo or Eva (Battler obviously didn't do it, Jessica won't kill her own parents, George didn't go down the guesthouse, so that leaves Nanjo and Eva, and I think Eva is completely innocent in Episode 3, aside from obviously Battler.)
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Old 2010-02-01, 17:42   Link #1229
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So. Uh. You know, you're supposed to assemble multiple hypotheses and favor the one that explains the most data points as elegantly as possible. It sounds like ijriims locked onto a culprit after making one deduction (Kyrie killing EP3 Nanjo, which is hard to disprove since none of us really understand what happened), gathered a backstory from a small amount of materials, then worked on handling the physical evidence with "everyone did strange things independently of each other." He seems impressed by how far he took this, but it could be done just as well with anyone on the island. (Or not on the island.) There are people with more motive, people who would have an easier time committing the murders, etc.
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Old 2010-02-01, 19:23   Link #1230
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
The problem with Erika not existing is that it doesn't matter for Ep6's final red: there is STILL one more person who doesn't exist, and the ONLY person that can be is Shannon or Kanon, since Battler has seen EVERYONE else together, dead or alive, at some point in the first four games, unless there's some tiny, not-hinted-at exception.

Of course, I could be misunderstanding too. If so, please correct me.
Umm, if you include a variable with a value of 0 in a set, the sum of the set remains constant :/. E.G. Erika's dead from the beginning and arrives on the island as its 18th visitor, but since she isn't alive at the beginning she doesn't count in the final count.
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Old 2010-02-01, 19:52   Link #1231
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If Eva killed anyone in ep3, killing Krauss and Natsuhi is probable. If she's the one who killed Rosa and Maria (which seems like an accident/panic situation), I'm pretty much sure of it. The MO for those four killings doesn't square with any other killings in any other episode. I can see Krauss and Natsuhi getting suspicious of Eva (or Eva thinking they were suspicious), leading to a confrontation where she overpowered and strangled them.

I don't think, if Eva killed anyone in ep3, that she premeditated it. Odds are she didn't mean to do it. But she gets a little crazy with paranoia and guilt. And to be fair, she knows there's a "real" murderer still around, so she could just suspect others of being the murderer and "defending" herself.
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Old 2010-02-01, 20:52   Link #1232
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Up until now my take is the culprit and the killer are different people. Their actions are variable each episode, depending on when they act. We already understood that Beatrice is not a single person. She is made up of different personas, and each of these persona isn't necessarily a person. Remember Ryukishi-san's hint that Maria is one of the important components of "Beatrice". I wonder who still remembers that. We can deduce however, as many have, that the little sister Beato is most likely the person Battler committed the sin to.

Also about the Kyrietrice discussion. I strongly believe it isn't the case. I do think that Kyrie is very suspicious, and has a lot to do with the story, but as of now I can't see how she is the Beatrice persona we're looking for. She is only a "component" at best just like everyone else. She could have killed people, and I also believe that angle, but she can't be THE Beatrice. Of course this is only my view.
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Old 2010-02-01, 21:17   Link #1233
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Umm, if you include a variable with a value of 0 in a set, the sum of the set remains constant :/. E.G. Erika's dead from the beginning and arrives on the island as its 18th visitor, but since she isn't alive at the beginning she doesn't count in the final count.
That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about Battler's "even if I include [Erika], there are only 17 people". (Actually, I'm not sure about the 'only' part, as I've seen it translated both ways. If there is no 'only', however, that basically makes Battler's red invalid.) If Erika isn't real/is dead, that means that there are only 16 (living) people on Rokkenjima, and it's been that way since the start of the first game.

Unless you're suggesting that Battler's "even if I include you" bit means that he's including a non-person with a value of zero, thus having the total remain at 17. ...Which really doesn't make much sense to me, but I suppose that works.

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We can deduce however, as many have, that the little sister Beato is most likely the person Battler committed the sin to.
Maria was three years old the last time she saw Battler. In fact, in Ep1, she doesn't recognize him at all.

...Yeah, I doubt she's the one he made the promise to.
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Old 2010-02-01, 21:38   Link #1234
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
It didn't. He made it up, just like he does everything else.


Kyrie is interested in Maria because she has a daughter of about the same age. Isn't that a much simpler explanation?
What did I make up ? Go read those scenes yourself if you think I made them up.

I don't say anything about reason, I only intended to prove that Kyrie had a keen interest in Maria. That's it. Just don't say she was the most rational, ruthless, anti-witch person, and she didn't care about her anymore.

You can say she paid attention to Maria because she had a daughter of about the same age, but when you say that, you are already acknowledging Kyrie did care about Maria.

And how many people in Umineko do such a thing? I want to ask.
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Old 2010-02-01, 21:41   Link #1235
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Remember Ryukishi-san's hint that Maria is one of the important components of "Beatrice". I wonder who still remembers that.
I don't remember Ryukishi actually saying that, although I do sort of remember an interview that you could be interpreting this way. Maybe you could link to this hint?
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Old 2010-02-01, 21:43   Link #1236
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Maria was three years old the last time she saw Battler. In fact, in Ep1, she doesn't recognize him at all.

...Yeah, I doubt she's the one he made the promise to.
Of course. Maria couldn't have been that person. She is still an important factor for "Beatrice", or in this case, the older sister Beatrice. And yeah, that's how I view it. Older Beatrice is basically the legend of the witch of Rokkenjima.
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Old 2010-02-01, 21:58   Link #1237
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Originally Posted by ijriims View Post
- I wonder why a ruthless, rational person like Kyrie would like to help Shannon like George in EP2.

(BTW, in EP1's dinner, when Maria was reading out the letter, Nanjo said he remembered Kinzo not wearing his ring when he was playing chess with him. The question is: if Kinzo died one and a half year ago, how come he remembered not wearing the ring? And the next question is: why he had to say that when he made the agreement that not to expose Kinzo's death? The third question is: even he did so such that it looked like Kinzo was still alive around that time, why did he say he remembered Kinzo not wearing his ring rather than Kinzo should be wearing his ring, why did Nanjo have to support what the letter said?)
Judging from episode 6 it's actually pretty obvious why she would support George and Shannon's romance. Seeing as though it took her 18 years to achieve her love she probably wanted to help make their relationship a tad bit easier than her's was.

And the whole Nanjo thing, wasn't that explained in episode 5 when Battler said, "As long as the person believes the deceased to be alive then to us it can look as if they are alive." If Nanjo supported the letter wouldn't that mean that he either thought that Natsuhi or Kraus wrote the letter and he is trying to support that claim to help them or he may know something that we don't. My vote is for the former.

Quote:
When Kyrie was talking how the siblings were treating Maria after the letter, she commented "even though she's just a little girl, everyone has been just chewing her up over this. They really scared her,....I wonder if those people have ever even read "The North Wind and the Sun".......But this key is being obstinately closed up inside her heart. Everyone denied the existence of the witch without listening to her, and barraged her too much with questions about who Beatrice actually was.......Maria-chan probably won't open her heart to the adults now" The only person who still paid attention to and emphasized Maria's feeling was Kyrie, not even Eva, Hideyoshi, Rudolf and Krauss could do so.
Isn't it common sense that if you want a child to respond positively to you, you should be kind.

Also about the whole Kyrie, Rosa conversation about Maria. Kyrie who's first child was miscarried would, more than likely, have a soft spot for children and would be all but happy at how Rosa was treating Maria.
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Old 2010-02-01, 23:04   Link #1238
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Originally Posted by ijriims View Post
I don't say anything about reason, I only intended to prove that Kyrie had a keen interest in Maria. That's it. Just don't say she was the most rational, ruthless, anti-witch person, and she didn't care about her anymore.

Outside of her interest in the odd hobbies of a little girl
, yes, Kyrie is the most rational and anti-witch person on the island.

Besides, caring about Maria isn't limited to Kyrie alone; the second most rational and anti-witch person on the island, Battler, also seems to care about her a lot even when she's been a horrible creepy bitch to him the entire game.

You're basically taking tiny bits of unconnected information and trying to weave them into a whole, then ignoring anything that doesn't fit with the theory you've constructed, even when the evidence against it is overwhelming. Hercule Poirot would be appalled.

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Of course. Maria couldn't have been that person. She is still an important factor for "Beatrice", or in this case, the older sister Beatrice. And yeah, that's how I view it. Older Beatrice is basically the legend of the witch of Rokkenjima.
So you're saying that Maria is a 'component' of Beatrice because she's fueling the Legend of the Witch by playing off of people's superstitions? Well, yeah, that makes perfect sense.
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Old 2010-02-02, 00:23   Link #1239
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There's a decent chance that Kyrie heard about the whole Mariage Sorciere conflict between Ange and Maria previously and took an interest in restoring the friendship. (Little kids do talk about this sort of stuff to their parents.) She might also see Ange as being too "serious" for her age and thinks that being more child-like, as Maria is (creepiness aside), might be good for her.

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Also about the whole Kyrie, Rosa conversation about Maria. Kyrie who's first child was miscarried would, more than likely, have a soft spot for children and would be all but happy at how Rosa was treating Maria.
This is also a good point that shows why Kyrie might take an interest in kids.

In short, there are simpler explanations for the phenomenon than Kyrie being Beatrice (which isn't supported by much other evidence), and if you use Occam's razor to cut down explanations like Shkanontrice and Nanjo the 3rd, the same should apply here as well.
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Old 2010-02-02, 03:31   Link #1240
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
You're basically taking tiny bits of unconnected information and trying to weave them into a whole, then ignoring anything that doesn't fit with the theory you've constructed, even when the evidence against it is overwhelming. Hercule Poirot would be appalled.
You know what, I could copy this above comment of yours and say that to you as well. You are no better than me, dude.

What evidence against it you are talking about? Meta-Beatrice loving Battler? Or younger-sis-Beatrice loving Battler?

Are you overlooking the analogy of sis-Beatrice to 1967 Beatrice, Battler to Kinzo when it was Genji and Kumasawa serving Battler?

Are you overlooking Shannon being Furfur but not Beatrice?

Are you overlooking when someone asked Battler what kind of a girl he liked Ryukishi07 was using 18 years old sprite and his way of talking was precisely the way he talked with Kyrie when he said dirty thing (Read EP1).

You are no less blinded by what you believe, sir.

------------

Stop being hypocritical guys, I am not the only who would defend his own thoughts till the truth is shown here. The same lies in everyone. You and I are all biased.

My theory can explain Umineko more completely (about who, how and why for EP1-6), told a better tale and without using stupid plotline like DID, natural disaster as what killed Battler in the end, and Beatrice killing Ushiromiya family because Battler did not return with a white horse. Unless I see a theory which can do better than mine, I would not switch side.

I have listed the clues from the game, how you interpret it relied on your initial ideas. If you don't accept Kyrie as Beatrice, then no matter what evidence I showed Kyrie caring Maria would be useless.

I am probably biased against DID, nonsense clothes changing and a mastermind who killed his or her family memebers only for money. You can call me irrational on that, but since these are regarded by me as stupid, third-classed plotline, that's why I detest them. Is it wrong to be against an anticlimatic, stupid or meaningless story?

Throw the Occam's razor out of the window. I am looking for an explanation which will make readers feel rewarding and meaningful, not the shortest and the empty one (Go buy Shakantrice theory as it has been strongly hinted by EP6 and probably could resolve all mysteries, if you claim to be using Occam's razor).

If I am wrong, let it be. I would rather my stance be wrong than poor. I would rather be accused of irrational than be accused unfaithful to my original idea.

Call me stubborn, call me nonsense, I shall see how far someone taking Erika's approach by posting the easiest suspects as murderer (Kanon in EP1, Nanjo in EP3) would take you to Ryukishi07's truth.

The most important ones: If you have so much time and energy to argue with me, why don't you work on and complete your own theory (I know many of you oppose to my idea while could not explain some mysteries yourselves. And some of you have your lists of suspect right? Which means some of you have not decided the culprit yet. To be frank, George, Shannon, Jessica never came to my mind to be the mastermind until I read relevant theories on this forum)? Beating down my theory does not lead you to the "Answer" anyway.

Final words: I kind of understand that many of you would never believe Kyrie could be Beatrice. I have already listed hints that Kyrie caring Maria (Beatrice caring Maria, this is certain from EP4), so I have paid my efforts. From now on I will not argue with you guys anymore on this topic, just pretend that never had anyone raised this possibility before. I will talk about Beatrice's motive but would never say Kyrie as Beatrice, up to the time EP7 is out. I don't plan to antagonize myself, and I enjoyed discussing issues with some of you guys. So I shall cease here, you can go on to attack Kyrie=Beatrice but I would not respond on that until EP7 is out. I will refrain myself from criticizing DID, white horse as motive and those I have said I am biased against as well.

In the end, when the "Answer" is revealed, I hope we shall enjoy the ending together.
__________________
Kýrie, eléison

Battler, you have already known it, right?

Without Love, it cannot be seen.

Last edited by ijriims; 2010-02-02 at 06:00.
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