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Old 2010-02-09, 09:15   Link #761
Cosmic Eagle
卍曼荼羅・無量大数
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypernova View Post
Blanks would have less recoil, of course the MG is still way too big for Noel.
Blanks from an MG still give quite a solid recoil.....

I shudder to think what happens if Noel seriously hits someone with that kind of strength...

Quote:
Who want to bet against that they had live ammo just in case and that this scam of Felicia was just remake of one of her backup plans? I'm certainly not...
Rio's ammo was certainly live.
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Old 2010-02-09, 11:06   Link #762
MeoTwister5
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If this were any other show I'd likely scoff at the blatant throwback to early 20th century prohibition era gangland, complete with the moefication of fedoras and automatic machine guns, stab myself with 100IU of Lispro and call it a day. If the episode was entirely that, there would have been a distinct possibility that I would have screamed in disappointed horror and dropped the show then and there as I cried in my sleep.

But it didn't. I mean yes the approach to the first part was admittedly driven partly by fanservice pandering but hey at least it wasn't as over the top as other shows. That said, I loved the parallel storytelling of two seemingly independent stories tied together by what appears to be circumstance, but quite possibly something more and deeper. Again the seriousness of the second half is a good counterpoint to the usual laid-back and happy setting they seem to be in. In the end like previous episodes, these are small bits and pieces revealing the scars of the past that still haunt the people despite the relative peace they enjoy now. They may all be enjoying a life of post-war peace now, but the way the past is presented really seems to drive down the idea that the past isn't as far back as people would want it, and such peace they enjoy now could easily be shattered in the same way they have experienced in the past. It's still there, not forgotten, and they don't seem to intend to take the present for granted.

I guess my only complaint is Rio's final comment. I'm assuming at this point that it isn't the writers talking and fumbling but merely a reflection of Rio's character. Kanata begins to believe that there are things that simply will happen, while Rio adamantly refuses to believe in any sort of predestination. Problem is it was so bluntly presented at the end that really, we don't get to know why she says it or thinks that way. Doesn't really help I guess that Kanata just accepts her view without contending it, but I guess that's just part of her personality.
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Old 2010-02-09, 11:25   Link #763
Lightseeker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbee View Post
tl;dr: What Sol Falling said, only with more hate because I've always hated moeblobs and I've come to hate this show.
I don't get why do you have Kodomo no Jikan at your signature if that is the case.
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Old 2010-02-09, 13:09   Link #764
felix
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Like seriously, I don't get what the hell "moe" you all found in it; there's nothing particularly "hug me for no reason" drama in it -- they didn't even bother to do any "omg I'm adorable" moments with the kid even though it would have seemed appropriate. It was typical slice of life, and beautifully executed too with the dual story element. Some of you people just blabber out big words and sentences with out thinking too much into it, or any solid proof to back it up.

Also, concerning the gun. There's no recoil since they didn't fire live rounds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightseeker View Post
I don't get why do you have Kodomo no Jikan at your signature if that is the case.
LOL ya, I'm wondering about that too... (next week K-on! avatar? :P)
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Old 2010-02-09, 16:33   Link #765
Thoguht
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Originally Posted by Cats View Post
There's no recoil since they didn't fire live rounds.
It's not just the slug that causes the recoil.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cats View Post
LOL ya, I'm wondering about that too...
And what exactly is moeblob about Kojika?

If only there was a poll for this episode I could have given it 10 out of 10.
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Old 2010-02-09, 16:37   Link #766
felix
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Originally Posted by Thoguht View Post
It's not just the slug that causes the recoil.
Pretty sure it makes a difference though. The issue here was that they can fire them like they do.
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Old 2010-02-09, 18:26   Link #767
Skane
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There is a recoil with blanks, but it's largely negligible. I can fire 2 M-16s akimbo style with blanks, but if I were to try that with live rounds... well, let's just say "Stupid" would be one of the few things said about me.

Cheers.
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Old 2010-02-09, 19:12   Link #768
chikorita157
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I see no moe but...

Spoiler for Episode 6:


Rating: 9.2/10
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Old 2010-02-09, 22:30   Link #769
Sol Falling
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightseeker View Post
I don't get why do you have Kodomo no Jikan at your signature if that is the case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cats View Post
Like seriously, I don't get what the hell "moe" you all found in it; there's nothing particularly "hug me for no reason" drama in it -- they didn't even bother to do any "omg I'm adorable" moments with the kid even though it would have seemed appropriate. It was typical slice of life, and beautifully executed too with the dual story element. Some of you people just blabber out big words and sentences with out thinking too much into it, or any solid proof to back it up.

LOL ya, I'm wondering about that too... (next week K-on! avatar? :P)
Quote:
Originally Posted by chikorita157 View Post
I see no moe but...

Spoiler for Episode 6:
:P Okay, sorry guys, but I think the issue here is you guys don't actually know what moe is. Sora no Woto is moe, flat and simple; it is quite possible to argue that it isn't pure moe, that there is other content being brought forward, but to say that Sora no Woto is not moe is impossible.

First let's clear up something about Kodomo no Jikan: to call that a 'moe' series would be just about the funniest thing in the world. Kodomo no Jikan is about sexual agency in children. This is antithetical to moe in two ways: first, moe is objectification, and two, moe is non-sexual ('cute'). (On the 'agency' thing: yes, in Kodomo no Jikan, it's not the audience or lolicons turning children into sexual objects, but rather children forcing adults to confront the fact that children have a sexual dimension. Needless to say, however--objectification or no--it is still very fanservicey.)

Back to military K-On (:P lol sorry--trolling). You guys should understand that even though moe is non-sexual, it is nevertheless still exclusively centered on romantically idealized female (or I suppose sometimes male) characters--not 'adorable' children. In fact, moe (well, as an aesthetic, maybe) is predicated upon the weak, helpless, naive, inexperienced aspect ( not the 'omg hug me' aspect) of those female characters, because they then represent an unthreatening object whom the male could theoretically dominate, so in the end it is still pretty much a sexual feeling. This is what makes so much of (for example) Noel and Kanata's screentime essentially fanboy pandering.

Beyond that though, 'moeblob' has a somewhat different meaning from moe. Moeblob more generally refers to characters who basically serve no real purpose aside from being unbearably cute, and this can be somewhat distanced from inspiring moe (for example, being tsundere is an almost classic example of something that inspires moe, while that sort of self-consciousness can never really be associated with a moeblob). A 'moeblob show' is a show whose entire cast basically seems to consist of such characters. As Bbee put it: shows about 'cute girls doing cute things'. Scenes like the mobster cosplay practically embody this sort of content (btw-- 'slice of life' indeed :P). Now, I personally haven't even gone as far as to call this a 'moeblob show', but the fact that six episodes in, I have yet to form an emotional connection with even one of this show's dazzling cast of female characters is, I have to admit, kinda damning. If you can seriously try to tell me that Sora no Woto's character's are not specifically designed to be cute, and that the reason it puts in scenes like 15 year old girls pretending to fire ridiculously oversized guns while dressed up as mobsters is not because it is specifically trying to be cute, then I might take your claims that 'there's no moe in military K-On' seriously.
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Stardust Crusaders 80/5 :: Sailor Moon Crystal 20/5 :: Hanayamata 28/5 :: Locodol 50/5 :: Yama no Susume 100/5 :: Sabagebu 28/5 :: Momo Kyun Sword 11/5
Fall: Sora no Method 21/5 :: Karen Senki 6/5 :: Cross Ange 1/5 :: Shirobako 22/5 :: Yuuki Yuuna 23/5 :: Mushishi S2 100/5
God-tier yuri oneshot mangaka: Minase Ruruu
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Exceptional shoujo manga: Last Game

Last edited by Sol Falling; 2010-02-09 at 22:46.
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Old 2010-02-09, 23:59   Link #770
Doraneko
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As the 2channers smartly put it, " 'Moe' is whatever you think it is. But don't even try to convince the others to follow your thinking as it is always futile to do so."

As for the gun fight scene, I seriously cannot see how "cute" it is. It maybe "moe" to some, given the ambiguous definition of the term and basically anything on earth has the potential of invoking moe feelings (eg train-moe, mikoshi-moe, etc). But personally I'd say that scene is closer to cool or GAR.

If the girls were trying to fire big ass guns that they couldn't even carry properly, and then slipped on the floor and ended up with big puppy teary eyes, then it would be "cute".
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Last edited by Doraneko; 2010-02-10 at 00:15.
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Old 2010-02-10, 00:27   Link #771
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
and that the reason it puts in scenes like 15 year old girls pretending to fire ridiculously oversized guns while dressed up as mobsters is not because it is specifically trying to be cute,
15 year old girls firing oversized guns issued to them, to protect their illegal distillery.

The guns are real, they used them in the shooting range. They are enlisted properly. And that they do secretly can get them court-marshaled for treason. If you can't see past the fact that they are cute girls, then you can't see what kind of show this is.
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Old 2010-02-10, 00:59   Link #772
Sol Falling
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Trying to convince others to follow my thinking may be a futile endeavor, but the impression I was getting from those three was that they didn't even understand moe personally themselves, and were merely attributing salient aspects they'd picked up on from context or other people's uses of it to the word (though perhaps in LightSeeker's case he's just never actually read/watched Kodomo no Jikan). In the first place, 'moe is whatever you think it is' aside, Kodomo no Jikan is nowhere near a moe show with regards to what most people mean by it. And considering Bbee's own words, it would seem obvious he doesn't find Kodomo no Jikan moe either. That's why I bothered trying to define it for those people. It's all well and good to say 'moe is whatever you think it is', certainly, if you are asserting moe based on your own experience of it, but for saying something is not moe, you've got to appeal to an at least semi-believable definition.

With regards to the gun scene; I'll admit it didn't particularly come off as moe to me either. As I said in my initial post, I guess, the sense I did get was pandering. The scenes that did have me 'feeling the moe' though were more mundane ones i.e. the general shots of Kanata shopping, wandering around, and looking for Mishio-chan. The point then really is that this show's girls clearly have moeblob appeal, and people going around claiming 'there is no moe' while simultaneously flaunting their lack of understanding for the concept in the first place (particularly the somewhat subjective nature of it, as you say) just really don't know what they're talking about.

edit @ Vallen Chaos Valiant:

lol, true, I really can't see what kind of show this is. Before you write me off as a hater, though, I think I deserve some credit for not writing this off as a moe show entirely and also for still being here. Like I said in my initial post, which btw was more about pandering and an emotional disconnect than moe specifically, I get that there's feeling and skill and love and dedication to the characters here. I really feel it, I can see it in the work. Somehow however the creator's love for their work is not transferring at all into my appreciation of it, and it's a bit of an unusual experience for me. So yeah, if someone does think they know what kind of show this is, then by all means lay it on me--I'm probably in this for the long haul because I don't hate this show enough to drop it, so I might as well enjoy it after all (alternatively, if your explanation manages to convince me that this show really is completely irrelevant to my interests, then you might well get me out of this thread ).
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Stardust Crusaders 80/5 :: Sailor Moon Crystal 20/5 :: Hanayamata 28/5 :: Locodol 50/5 :: Yama no Susume 100/5 :: Sabagebu 28/5 :: Momo Kyun Sword 11/5
Fall: Sora no Method 21/5 :: Karen Senki 6/5 :: Cross Ange 1/5 :: Shirobako 22/5 :: Yuuki Yuuna 23/5 :: Mushishi S2 100/5
God-tier yuri oneshot mangaka: Minase Ruruu
Sonohana twitter follow campaign: mikajyo_info :: rewards (anime adaptation if they reach 50000!!)
Exceptional shoujo manga: Last Game

Last edited by Sol Falling; 2010-02-10 at 01:16.
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Old 2010-02-10, 02:47   Link #773
ZODDGUTS
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Basically this series feels like haibane renmei expect they added moe to this series... also it's nowhere as good as that series was.
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Old 2010-02-10, 03:05   Link #774
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by ZODDGUTS View Post
Basically this series feels like haibane renmei expect they added moe to this series... also it's nowhere as good as that series was.
If Haibane renmei is made today, it would be "accused" of being a moe show too.
Moe has always been in anime, there just wasn't a name for it until recently. And much of the older shows were not available outside Japan.

As I see it, the anti-moe movement is just people who got anime fatigue. The freshness of watching something foreign has worn off, and now you can see the cracks and joints in the media.
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Old 2010-02-10, 04:59   Link #775
felix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
As I see it, the anti-moe movement is just people who got anime fatigue.
More like people didn't figure out "oh, we can definitely mindlessly troll on this and get away with it" back then. From what I see this is more or less a meme of people who are trying to act smart but don't really know what it is they are saying.

@ Sol Falling -- you got your words wrong, what you are referring as moe is what's usually referred to as cute/adorable. If the definition was so damn simple as you make it out to be we wouldn't have problems with it. Moe is more or less the feeling of wanting to grab something and hold it to yourself (the object of your effection doesn't even have to be particularly pretty). Kodomo no Jikan with its self-centered antics and theme is way more moe in this regard then this show where the events aren't really reflecting on the character development too much, besides describing their personalities. If you want to call it something subjective like cute-blob/adorable-blob by all means; but like I said before don't go using big words like moe-blog with no proof. However much the definition may differ, moe in the end still says pretty much "you like it", so you better have some really good arguments when using "I hate it" and "moeblob" in the same sentence.
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Old 2010-02-10, 06:06   Link #776
Sol Falling
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As I've pointed out, 'moeblob' and 'moe' are different concepts. You can easily use the word 'moeblob' in a negative manner--in fact that may even be how it is most often used, because a 'moeblob' is defined by their helplessness/uselessness at anything besides being cute. Furthermore, 'moe' in the context of 'moe shit' as most trolls use it denotes an aesthetic designed to inspire moe moreso than the feeling itself. When you see something a whole bunch of people are moeing over, and personally find it to be vapid shit, that's where the "I hate moe" comes in.

Please note that I've never personally said anything like 'I hate moe'. I've said 'this show has made me moe' (a number of people have corrobated this sentiment, establishing that, indeed, Sora no Woto contains moe), and 'even though this show has made me moe, I feel absolutely zero emotional connection to its characters'. Under your definition, this should be impossible, and indeed my initial post was to say that I found it puzzling.

Coming back to Kodomo no Jikan, though, I have no idea what you're talking about. A show has 'self-centered' antics? It's 'theme' is moe? Less character development = less moe (you said Sora no Woto is less moe because it's events don't reflect on character development?)?

I can say that Kodomo no Jikan has much deeper character development than this show, so yes, if character development = moe, then that association might work out. I somewhat fail to see that connection though. Kodomo no Jikan's sexualization of [Rin specifically] comes off as threatening and discomfiting, it's effect being to make her seem vulgar and dirtied, which generates a response opposite from the 'you're so cute I want to hug you' moe you're describing. Similarly, most of the characters are all given fairly involved emotional backgrounds which inspire pity or empathy rather than adoration or affection.
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Seasonal enjoyment ratings:
Stardust Crusaders 80/5 :: Sailor Moon Crystal 20/5 :: Hanayamata 28/5 :: Locodol 50/5 :: Yama no Susume 100/5 :: Sabagebu 28/5 :: Momo Kyun Sword 11/5
Fall: Sora no Method 21/5 :: Karen Senki 6/5 :: Cross Ange 1/5 :: Shirobako 22/5 :: Yuuki Yuuna 23/5 :: Mushishi S2 100/5
God-tier yuri oneshot mangaka: Minase Ruruu
Sonohana twitter follow campaign: mikajyo_info :: rewards (anime adaptation if they reach 50000!!)
Exceptional shoujo manga: Last Game
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Old 2010-02-10, 06:14   Link #777
Rhyel
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New Signature.



Free to use.
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Old 2010-02-10, 06:31   Link #778
felix
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Furthermore, 'moe' in the context of 'moe shit' as most trolls use it denotes an aesthetic designed to inspire moe moreso than the feeling itself. When you see something a whole bunch of people are moeing over, and personally find it to be vapid shit, that's where the "I hate moe" comes in.
Wonderful use of language you have, just goes to show where you're mind is.

I don't know why I even bothered to reason with you. // re-adds self-proclaimed troll to ignore list
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Old 2010-02-10, 08:40   Link #779
Cosmic Eagle
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More like people didn't figure out "oh, we can definitely mindlessly troll on this and get away with it" back then. From what I see this is more or less a meme of people who are trying to act smart but don't really know what it is they are saying.
So true indeed. A fair portion of haters are just doing so because it's cool to hate something popular.
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Old 2010-02-10, 09:23   Link #780
FireChick
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Episode 6 was quite cute. I loved Kanata in this episode. She looked so cute in those clothes and really looked like a normal little girl, and that's what I like.

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