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Old 2010-01-05, 09:23   Link #21
paradox13
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i am familiar with ROTK, being Chinese,however even I found it ridiculously hard to follow.
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Old 2010-01-05, 12:23   Link #22
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Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
i am familiar with ROTK, being Chinese,however even I found it ridiculously hard to follow.
have you try reading it more then once? No offense but i only had 1 yr of school in China before i came to the US and I still manage to read it. You need to do it more then once but it is doable and i didn't go to Chinese school or use a dictionary.
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Old 2010-01-05, 17:01   Link #23
Xion Valkyrie
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BTW, Chen Mou is not the only one drawing a great saga, we have other fine examples like Berserk, Guyver and Bastard.
And the author is going to die before finishing Berserk too =P
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Old 2010-01-12, 10:31   Link #24
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This manhwa is very great. The tactical battle between the character is godly. And about the many character, it's not like the author has a choice. The original novel(which is already a roman version of the original history) has that many character too, and the story jumps around a lot too becuz the first half of the story is about the back story of how the three kingdom begin. What I like about this version of ROTK is the author took the novelized version of the character, and try to at least give an explanation on why they are portrayed like that in the novel(for those wandering, zhang fei is indeed very litterate which raise doubt on Luo GuanZhong's version of Zhang Fei a lot, and the "official" history book is written from Sima's POV as the hero since they are basically the "winner" of the war).
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Old 2010-02-13, 22:41   Link #25
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[c. 300-304]

Damn, the author is brave. I think the readers kind of expect Sun Ce to have fallen by now -- as it did in the original novel -- and now he's alive (after so many false deaths -_-), Taiping is crushed (yay! I would have been angry if they won), and the deadly Sun army is attacking Cao Cao in full force. It's going to be really hard to resolve the plot conundrum of having a totally haxx'd up Sun Ce and Cao Cao in all-out fighting and the result still coming out relatively close to history. In reality it really was a lucky break that the already stretched Cao forces got when Sun Ce was assassinated, as they didn't have to deal with a ridiculously aggressive and charismatic warlord striking from the south in the middle of total war with Yuan Shao.

As a side note, I really love Sun Ce's characterization here as someone who's not only god-tier in power, but also disconnected from humanity and morality in a way that could be described either as sociopathic, in our terms, or "god-like," as they would say. But that does make it hard to believe that he wouldn't eventually just cut his way to world domination, or that he can even die in the first place XP.
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Old 2010-02-14, 07:59   Link #26
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As a side note, I really love Sun Ce's characterization here as someone who's not only god-tier in power, but also disconnected from humanity and morality in a way that could be described either as sociopathic, in our terms, or "god-like," as they would say. But that does make it hard to believe that he wouldn't eventually just cut his way to world domination, or that he can even die in the first place XP.
Everyone in the comic will get dealed their historical fate in due time. Look the Dong Zhou and Lu Bu. Both have more charms and brains than their real life counterparts and where are they now ?

Another thing, Sun Ce must die in order to set everything to their historical source, Red Cliff might not have happened is Ce is not killed. For all we know, Ce might have teamed up with Yuan Shao to do a pincer attack from both the North and South if he had survived his historical assassination and history would be re-written.
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Old 2010-02-14, 16:39   Link #27
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Everyone in the comic will get dealed their historical fate in due time. Look the Dong Zhou and Lu Bu. Both have more charms and brains than their real life counterparts and where are they now ?

Another thing, Sun Ce must die in order to set everything to their historical source, Red Cliff might not have happened is Ce is not killed. For all we know, Ce might have teamed up with Yuan Shao to do a pincer attack from both the North and South if he had survived his historical assassination and history would be re-written.
the original novels were base on historical fact but it was still one persons interperation of those facts. One thing about Dong Zhou was that he was the general in charge of the Han's Northwest frontier dealing with the XiongNu. he might have been as brutal as the novels made him out but i doubt he was as fat and useless as the novels portray him as.
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Old 2010-02-14, 16:53   Link #28
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Sigh, this manga being monthly now really sucks. The chapters still feel like it's done with the content of a weekly manga in mind.
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Old 2010-02-14, 17:18   Link #29
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Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
the original novels were base on historical fact but it was still one persons interperation of those facts. One thing about Dong Zhou was that he was the general in charge of the Han's Northwest frontier dealing with the XiongNu. he might have been as brutal as the novels made him out but i doubt he was as fat and useless as the novels portray him as.
Still, you don't expect them to sprout philosophy, political ideals and stratagem like they did in this comic.
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Old 2010-10-31, 00:14   Link #30
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Still, you don't expect them to sprout philosophy, political ideals and stratagem like they did in this comic.
This is imperial China, that's one of the major things you expect Military generals and court officials to do. What we didn't expect was that he was so charismatic about it.
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Old 2010-10-31, 00:24   Link #31
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Well, Dong Zhuo did had several great general following him, which doesn't make sense if he's just a womanizer fat pig which can't do anything like the novel portrayed him. This manga is really great, the problem is ROTK is just too much material to cover with the writer's pacing right now(where one major battle need 4-5 volume to cover). I'm afraid the author will pass away first and the series become unfinished.
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Old 2010-10-31, 00:47   Link #32
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This is imperial China, that's one of the major things you expect Military generals and court officials to do. What we didn't expect was that he was so charismatic about it.
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Originally Posted by kuroishinigami View Post
Well, Dong Zhuo did had several great general following him, which doesn't make sense if he's just a womanizer fat pig which can't do anything like the novel portrayed him.
I rather believe that the historical Dong only got far because he had a capable adviser in Li Ru, his son-in-law.

Many of Dong's achievements was attributed to Li, including placing Shao as a puppet on the throne, the seduction of Lu Bu and razing of Louyang.

Quote:
This manga is really great, the problem is ROTK is just too much material to cover with the writer's pacing right now(where one major battle need 4-5 volume to cover). I'm afraid the author will pass away first and the series become unfinished.
Chen Mou is in a fast forward mood now. Sun Ce had been dealt with. Guang Du is underway and the latest chapter had Yuan Fang dealing a serious blow to Gou Jia's stratagem. This will perhaps see the end of the comic's Gou Jia.
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Old 2010-10-31, 02:30   Link #33
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Chen Mou is in a fast forward mood now. Sun Ce had been dealt with. Guang Du is underway and the latest chapter had Yuan Fang dealing a serious blow to Gou Jia's stratagem. This will perhaps see the end of the comic's Gou Jia.
I recall Guo Jia ultimately being victorious and outliving the Battle of Guandu.

Dies shortly after, though.
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Old 2011-06-03, 01:40   Link #34
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Gou Jia still got a few years left. He was still around as Cao Cao was finishing up Yuan Shao's sons, but died mid way during the march toward north.


With all due respect, while battle of Guan Du was a pivotal, the reason reason for the fall of Yuan clan was the death of Yuan Shao and the subsequent succession feud within the clan. Because even after the his win in Guan Du, Cao Cao didn't dare to march north during the 2-3 years Yuan Shao was still alive.
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Old 2011-06-03, 03:18   Link #35
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It's just natural that Cao Cao will have difficulties conquering the remaining Yuan Shao's territory even after Guan Du considering Yuan Shao himself has a hard time conquering Gongsun Zan who rules in that territory before him.

Cao Cao could for sure conquer the rest of Yuan Shao's territory if he go all out even when Yuan Shao is still alive, but you have to remember that during the moment, Cao Cao has enemies on all side(Liu Biao to the south, Ma Teng to the west, and Sun Quan too if Cao Cao take too long mobilizing his army to finish Yuan Shao), so he made the wise decision to move carefully and wait for Yuan Shao's inheritance problem to finish them internally instead of rushing his army and risk decimating a good amount of soldier.
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Old 2011-06-03, 05:56   Link #36
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No, Cao Cao's force was already spread thin, and as decisive as Guan Du was, Cao Cao didn't came out of that battle that much better either. Despise losing Yan Liang and Wen Chou during early parts of campaign, Yuan Shao's army was still advancing fairly easily, and was almost able to cut Cao cao's territories in half all the way to Ru Nan. Similar to Chi Bi where the outcome only robs Cao Cao's ability to mount another immediate attack. The Battle of Guan Du only robs Yuan Shao's ability to mobilize another large invasion force for the time being, but did not impact on his defensive ability.

All Cao Cao can do during the aftermath was to take back the area Yuan Shao took during the beginning of Yuan's Guan Du campaign. The territory virtually revered back to it was before Yuan's invasion. The fact that Cao Cao did not start to mount an attack until Yuan Shao passed away (202 AD) and it took him another two years (204 AD) to take City of Ye, Yuan Shao's capital located just north to the yellow river, shows that Yuan army was still giving him problem and the main reason he was able to steamroll Yuan Shao's son later was because they're fighting amongst themselves.

Also, contrary to popular believe. Right after Guan Du, Cao Cao really didn't have any threats. Ma Teng is the royalist, and in history, at that time he already submits to Cao Cao and is under control of imperial court. In fact, Ma Teng was leading his clan and army assisting Cao Cao under court order when Cao Cao mounts attack after Yuan Shao's death. In addition, Ma Teng and his sons, with exption of Ma Chao, remained in the Han capital working as court officials until Ma Chao's rebellion which caused Cao Cao to arrest and sentenced entire Ma Teng and his clan to death for treason, not the other way around.

On the other hand, Liu Biao and Sun Quan were no threat to Cao Cao. Liu Biao and Sun Clan had been bitter enemies ever since Sun Jian defect to Yuan Shu and Yuan Shu used him against Lui Biao. And other than Sun Clan, Lui Biao's stands always being a bystander. Right after Guan Du, with Sun clan are still dealing with the pass of Sun Ce transfer of leadership, Liu Biao took advantage mounting multiple assaults against them, as result, neither were immediate threat to Cao Cao.

So, if Cao Cao had a ability for do follow up attack after Guan Du, he would have because he really did not have any other threat at time. However, he couldn't because he himself wasn't able to gather any offensive force as well. And actually, it was Yuan Shao who mounted another attack a year after Guan Du in the lessor known Battle of Cang Ting and in that battle, Yuan Shao still enjoyed the numbers advantage with around 70,000 troops while Cao Cao can only muster around 50,000 which included forces from Ma Teng and the Rebels who defect from Yuan Shao after the loss in Guan Du.
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Old 2011-06-03, 08:54   Link #37
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Ah ic. It seems my knowledge of three kingdom is still lacking XD.
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Old 2011-06-03, 18:31   Link #38
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That's part of what's interesting about this period and the reason why not only was it popular in amongst Chinese, but also in Japan, Thailand, Vietnam, the entire East Asian countries.

The more you learn about it, the more you can discuss and analyze. In fact back when I started getting into this period back when I was young I thought Yuan Shao was a fool and a bad leader. But now, after learns more and more over years you realizes there's no way a fool can establish that huge a power base.

I mean, even after Yuan Shao suffers another crushing defeat in the Battle of Cang Ting. He was still able to put out all the rebellions resulted by the two losses within a short period of time before his death a year later due to illness. During that few months, Cao Cao still reluctant and unable to mount an attack and waited until Yuan's passing before he did so.

If anything, he is kind of like Imagawa during Japanese Sengoku period, where he was doomed by popular believe due to the reason that he lost his last major battle to a vastly smaller force and eventual powerhouse figure Oda Nobunaga. Otherwise the history actually has very high regard for Imagawa. In Yuan Shoa's case, all the criticism he received were from Cao Cao's brain trusts during the two battle. All the reference shown that he was a noble leader who enjoyed vast support of the people under his rule and can attract talent. He's only short coming was that he can be a bit indecisive and not taking in advices from his advisors at time.
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Old 2011-06-04, 01:06   Link #39
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Well, some of the exaggeration of some figure also doesn't help in knowing the true history of the period IMO. I mean, Zhuge Liang is definitely a very talented person, and arguably a genius, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't that dominating in the days and make the other figure fighting him looks inept like that.

Don't get me wrong, I like Zhuge Liang, and I still think he's arguably the most brilliant person in his era, but I'm pretty sure people like Zhou Yu, Lu Xun, or Sima Yi wasn't as bad as he was portrayed in the fictional novel of Luo Guanzhong that they basically get owned by Zhuge Liang over and over again.

If they deified Zhuge Liang like that, who knows who else were actually a talented general during the era and end up getting a bad name in the process of deifying people like Zhuge Liang.
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Old 2011-06-04, 03:23   Link #40
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Yes this manga is brilliant and the author is a genius.

He twist the story so much yet somehow manage to match the novel version in general picture.

One thing I like about his thinking is someone who manage to be famous after all the years is never an idiot (能名留青史的人,怎么可能是个笨蛋。)
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