AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Claymore

Notices

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 2010-02-14, 21:44   Link #761
Guido
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Monterrey, México
Age: 33
Clare holds into the past. She chose not to want a future, because she's living on to exact revenge against Priscilla.

I can put it this way literally Teresa is the past for Clare. Revenge against Priscilla is her present and what she lives for to obtain. Laki is the future that she chose not to want.
Guido is offline  
Old 2010-02-14, 23:58   Link #762
revan5
Dark Lord of Animesuki
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: The Kingdom of Orange...you can't beat the Cuse, in basketball or snowfall!
I've got a couple of very interesting variations on translations we've all read. They all concern Dragonkin. Cyclone, if you're around, I'd be interested in hearing if Viz's translation in Chapter 79 are accurate or not.

Viz Version
Claymore Chapter 79 page 24: Miria: "It's as though from the start they were made to be used against Awakened Beings or something even greater."

Onemanga Translation
Claymore Chapter 79 page 24: Miria: "It's as if from the beginning, it's made to be used against Awakened Beings or others."


Quite an interesting difference huh? It would imply that Dragonkin are even more dangerous than Awakened Beings. If you're looking for your ultimate monsters, it appears Dragonkin are it according to Viz. The question is, is Viz's translation correct or is the Onemanga translation correct? I ask only because the answer has large ramifications for the rest of the manga.

Then there's an interesting bit about the Dragonkin themselves.

Viz Version
Claymore Chapter 79 page 27: Miria: "One side had allies in a non-human tribe that possessed an impenetrable hide and were said to be the descendants of dragons."

Onemanga Translation
Claymore Chapter 79 page 27: Miria: "One side can be considered the Dragon's kins. They're said to have non-human comrades that have extremely tough skin."


First off, I have to say Viz's translation makes so much more sense than onemanga's. The question I'd like to ask Cyclone and other experts is regarding the "Dragonkin". Does the raw suggest they are kin (like cousins to dragons) or their literal descendants? It's just nobody's clarified this issue.

I will say Viz's translation helps clear up one matter. It seems to imply that humans are on both sides of the conflict rather than one side. The other thing that I've noticed is that the Viz translation says that the "impenetrable hide" belongs to the Dragonkin. The onemanga translation suggests that the Dragonkin have other non-human comrades with this tough skin. So then dear Japanese experts, which is it?
__________________


How the warriors of Claymore OUGHT to look: http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...ostcount=12541
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...ostcount=12530
"So Shiek, now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb!"
revan5 is offline  
Old 2010-02-15, 01:20   Link #763
Cyclone
Transient Guest
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Canada
Yeah, I'm here.
First, let me say that the FH translation of the chapters around 79 is a travesty. For those chapters, better translations exist (even though FH always had the best cleaning/typesetting).

Quote:
Originally Posted by revan5 View Post
I've got a couple of very interesting variations on translations we've all read. They all concern Dragonkin. Cyclone, if you're around, I'd be interested in hearing if Viz's translation in Chapter 79 are accurate or not.

Viz Version
Claymore Chapter 79 page 24: Miria: "It's as though from the start they were made to be used against Awakened Beings or something even greater."

Onemanga Translation
Claymore Chapter 79 page 24: Miria: "It's as if from the beginning, it's made to be used against Awakened Beings or others."


Quite an interesting difference huh? It would imply that Dragonkin are even more dangerous than Awakened Beings. If you're looking for your ultimate monsters, it appears Dragonkin are it according to Viz. The question is, is Viz's translation correct or is the Onemanga translation correct? I ask only because the answer has large ramifications for the rest of the manga.
Miria says: marude saisho kara kakuseisha ka... sore igai mono o aite ni suru tame ni tsukurareta mono no you de na...
As best as I can make out:
それ以外の者 - aside from them/these
As such I'd give this one to the fan version - which seems to translate it pretty much verbatim.

Quote:
Then there's an interesting bit about the Dragonkin themselves.

Viz Version
Claymore Chapter 79 page 27: Miria: "One side had allies in a non-human tribe that possessed an impenetrable hide and were said to be the descendants of dragons."

Onemanga Translation
Claymore Chapter 79 page 27: Miria: "One side can be considered the Dragon's kins. They're said to have non-human comrades that have extremely tough skin."


First off, I have to say Viz's translation makes so much more sense than onemanga's. The question I'd like to ask Cyclone and other experts is regarding the "Dragonkin". Does the raw suggest they are kin (like cousins to dragons) or their literal descendants? It's just nobody's clarified this issue.

I will say Viz's translation helps clear up one matter. It seems to imply that humans are on both sides of the conflict rather than one side. The other thing that I've noticed is that the Viz translation says that the "impenetrable hide" belongs to the Dragonkin. The onemanga translation suggests that the Dragonkin have other non-human comrades with this tough skin. So then dear Japanese experts, which is it?
Firstly, don't get me started on this "Dragon Kin" nonsense again. I've been complaining about that since the first fool translated it as such, and ever since. There never was a "dragon kin" - it has always said "as it/like/etc descendants of dragons". This particular quote was debated in the 79 thread.

From memory:
- yes, there are humans on both sides. The other side made allies with an existing race possessing a tough skin as if they were descendants of dragons.

Going back to the raw, it indeed says (good - memory works):
"daga sono seiryoku ga marude ryuu no matsuei to mo iwareru youna kyouko na gaihi o motsu jingai no shuzoku o nakama ni hiki ire"

"But that [other] side, allied themselves with a tribe of non-humans who possess such a strong outer skin as if we could call them descendants of dragons."

That's probably the best I can do for you on that translation.
What I can say for sure is that it does not say:
- dragon kin
- impenetrable (but simply 'strong')

-----

@Solace:
Are you sure we can't have a thread for clearing up translations? It's not like this doesn't come up often. I mean we still have people saying "Zemas" instead of "Zemu/Zem" for the twins and countless other things that get lost in the individual chapter threads.
Cyclone is offline  
Old 2010-02-15, 04:59   Link #764
Korinov
The Burned Man walks!
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Asspain
Age: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone View Post
@Solace:
Are you sure we can't have a thread for clearing up translations? It's not like this doesn't come up often. I mean we still have people saying "Zemas" instead of "Zemu/Zem" for the twins and countless other things that get lost in the individual chapter threads.
It'd be very interesting to have such a thread. Even I can contribute for funny reasons, since Glenat's spanish translations are an endless source of lulz.
Korinov is offline  
Old 2010-02-15, 05:27   Link #765
gxy1069
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by revan5 View Post
I've got a couple of very interesting variations on translations we've all read. They all concern Dragonkin. Cyclone, if you're around, I'd be interested in hearing if Viz's translation in Chapter 79 are accurate or not.

Viz Version
Claymore Chapter 79 page 24: Miria: "It's as though from the start they were made to be used against Awakened Beings or something even greater."

Onemanga Translation
Claymore Chapter 79 page 24: Miria: "It's as if from the beginning, it's made to be used against Awakened Beings or others."


Quite an interesting difference huh? It would imply that Dragonkin are even more dangerous than Awakened Beings. If you're looking for your ultimate monsters, it appears Dragonkin are it according to Viz. The question is, is Viz's translation correct or is the Onemanga translation correct? I ask only because the answer has large ramifications for the rest of the manga.

Then there's an interesting bit about the Dragonkin themselves.

Viz Version
Claymore Chapter 79 page 27: Miria: "One side had allies in a non-human tribe that possessed an impenetrable hide and were said to be the descendants of dragons."

Onemanga Translation
Claymore Chapter 79 page 27: Miria: "One side can be considered the Dragon's kins. They're said to have non-human comrades that have extremely tough skin."


First off, I have to say Viz's translation makes so much more sense than onemanga's. The question I'd like to ask Cyclone and other experts is regarding the "Dragonkin". Does the raw suggest they are kin (like cousins to dragons) or their literal descendants? It's just nobody's clarified this issue.

I will say Viz's translation helps clear up one matter. It seems to imply that humans are on both sides of the conflict rather than one side. The other thing that I've noticed is that the Viz translation says that the "impenetrable hide" belongs to the Dragonkin. The onemanga translation suggests that the Dragonkin have other non-human comrades with this tough skin. So then dear Japanese experts, which is it?
ehhh...it's hard to imagine something even more powerful than priscilla or the ao...whew, if the dragonkin are really that powerful, it's gonna get that much harder for our protangonists. unless, of course, an average dragonkin is more powerful than a AVERAGE ab...now that could take things down to a more reasonable level(and i like priscilla being at the top anyway, if she just got pwned by some rndom dragonkin, that would be VERY bad writing)"."
gxy1069 is offline  
Old 2010-02-15, 05:53   Link #766
Joe_fh
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryuken View Post
You mean, "one, loosing one's humanity". I'm sure they don't care at all. But mark my words, those who seek such destructible and uncontrollable power would ultimately destroy themselves. It's a known fact all over the universe.
Yeah that's what I mean. In other words I doubt the Organization cares about what kind of chages happen after awakening as long as they have the AB under control. As I said I'm pretty sure they'll even feed them if they have to but obedience is the ultimate goal here.

A thread for clearing up translations will be nice indeed.
And Dragon kin is used for convinince or at least I use it for that. I mean "that tribe that have very though skin and fight ABs on the mainland oh and were said to be the descendants of dragons" is way too long to use. They are indeed probably connected to dragons or such since they seem to be a race rather than artifically created creatures ( of course this miy not be the case) and have though skin. And they sort of looked a bit like dragons and if you take the part about being "descendants of dragons" you could call them Dragon kin since kin basically could be translated as "of the same blood" and for them to have though skin like that they probably need to have the "dragon blood" let's say. Since they are not dragons they are descendant of them but they still have the same blood.

To put it simpli kin is the wrong word here but it's not that wrong if you think about it. I'm not saying the translation is accurate since Cyclone understand Japanese and I don't thus clearly I don't have a say but rahter that calling them Dragon-kin as a lack of a better term is a good idea.Or at least it's convenient.

Awakened beings or something more powerfull might mean a lot of different things. It probably means an avarage AB since if the formentioned "dragon descendants" (or Dragon kin) were more powerful than an AO they would have won a long time ago. We know that ABs used in that war wipe out everyone they see and eventually get killed which probably means they indeed are able to kill even the Dragonkin. So I doubt they are that much powerfull than your avarege AB. We still don't know many things to say for sure though.

And revan5 you missed my long post
Joe_fh is offline  
Old 2010-02-15, 09:34   Link #767
Ryuken
Claymore #01
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Maldives
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_fh View Post
Yeah that's what I mean. In other words I doubt the Organization cares about what kind of chages happen after awakening as long as they have the AB under control. As I said I'm pretty sure they'll even feed them if they have to but obedience is the ultimate goal here.

A thread for clearing up translations will be nice indeed.
And Dragon kin is used for convinince or at least I use it for that. I mean "that tribe that have very though skin and fight ABs on the mainland oh and were said to be the descendants of dragons" is way too long to use. They are indeed probably connected to dragons or such since they seem to be a race rather than artifically created creatures ( of course this miy not be the case) and have though skin. And they sort of looked a bit like dragons and if you take the part about being "descendants of dragons" you could call them Dragon kin since kin basically could be translated as "of the same blood" and for them to have though skin like that they probably need to have the "dragon blood" let's say. Since they are not dragons they are descendant of them but they still have the same blood.

To put it simpli kin is the wrong word here but it's not that wrong if you think about it. I'm not saying the translation is accurate since Cyclone understand Japanese and I don't thus clearly I don't have a say but rahter that calling them Dragon-kin as a lack of a better term is a good idea.Or at least it's convenient.

Awakened beings or something more powerfull might mean a lot of different things. It probably means an avarage AB since if the formentioned "dragon descendants" (or Dragon kin) were more powerful than an AO they would have won a long time ago. We know that ABs used in that war wipe out everyone they see and eventually get killed which probably means they indeed are able to kill even the Dragonkin. So I doubt they are that much powerfull than your avarege AB. We still don't know many things to say for sure though.

And revan5 you missed my long post
You put it so nicely @Joe, the only thing that I really want to know now is that how would Raccialla fair against the Dragons or the best that they have to offer.
Ryuken is offline  
Old 2010-02-15, 11:32   Link #768
zato_1one
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Negativedark View Post
And honestly, it's a pretty stinky move of Claire to want to use awakening to kill Prisscilla. If she succeeds, then now there is an even worse monster to terroize the land.
That would be the most appropriate move for Clare to kill Prissy regardless of the consequence. We've known from the past that



If she wanted to release her full power then she needed to awake her body without holding back.
__________________
zato_1one is offline  
Old 2010-02-15, 22:31   Link #769
Ryuken
Claymore #01
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Maldives
Quote:
Originally Posted by zato_1one View Post
If she wanted to release her full power then she needed to awake her body without holding back.
Yes, I think that would do the trick against even Prissy for sure.
Ryuken is offline  
Old 2010-02-15, 22:39   Link #770
TsumeBlue
Silver-Eyed Slayer
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: In a fantasy
All I can say...

Well, as far as this and the next chapter goes, I can honestly say that I have no idea where the fight between Prissy and Clare is going. Which, when you think about it, makes it really interesting. It allows for almost anything to happen. I kinda find that exciting. Though I do admit, I can't see either one of them dying.
__________________
Kiss It Goodbye.
TsumeBlue is offline  
Old 2010-02-15, 23:49   Link #771
klare
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
yes it is interesting about the fight, especially what Priscilla said in the end

Priscilla was initially depicted as someone stronger than Abyss, Riful once said "the only way to defeat her is 2 Abyss-level Awaken fight her together" but it seems 2 awaken Alicia and Beth were easily defeated by her, this makes her way too strong for anyone else

unless Clare awaken and possess power similar with Priscilla, 3 of them will be killed in an instant (which i dont think will happen)
klare is offline  
Old 2010-02-16, 03:38   Link #772
gxy1069
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by klare View Post
yes it is interesting about the fight, especially what Priscilla said in the end

Priscilla was initially depicted as someone stronger than Abyss, Riful once said "the only way to defeat her is 2 Abyss-level Awaken fight her together" but it seems 2 awaken Alicia and Beth were easily defeated by her, this makes her way too strong for anyone else

unless Clare awaken and possess power similar with Priscilla, 3 of them will be killed in an instant (which i dont think will happen)
well,apparently she has far more greater power than just 2 AOs, judging from the fights she has been. so no,it's gonna take much more than just AOs or abyssal feeders to defeat her, or even injure her. and when i mean much more, i mean MUCH MORE. i wonder when she will finally meet her match...
gxy1069 is offline  
Old 2010-02-16, 04:12   Link #773
gxy1069
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by zato_1one View Post
That would be the most appropriate move for Clare to kill Prissy regardless of the consequence. We've known from the past that



If she wanted to release her full power then she needed to awake her body without holding back.
well apparently, that might not be the case. she can't even awaken now, and it's a complete mess out there, what with all the theories.
gxy1069 is offline  
Old 2010-02-16, 07:49   Link #774
Negativedark
Proud Yuma Lover.
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by gxy1069 View Post
well,apparently she has far more greater power than just 2 AOs, judging from the fights she has been. so no,it's gonna take much more than just AOs or abyssal feeders to defeat her, or even injure her. and when i mean much more, i mean MUCH MORE. i wonder when she will finally meet her match...
We may end up with Priss letting herself be beaten too. Let's not forget the girl has never been the most mentally stable of sorts.

I wonder if Claire's inability to awaken is something subconcious in her. Jean died to pull her back last time, and that left a serious mental scar on her. And it could well be that awakening and giving up everything, becoming a monster is the mistake Rapheala was trying to warn her about.

As much of a power gap as Prisscilla has with everything else except maybe the Destroyer, I don't think Claire could possibly beat her just by awakening. Hell the way things are going, I think that in a few chapters we'll see Priss wipe out the Destroyer.
__________________
YUMA PUNCH! YUMA BARRIER! YUMA HEALING MAGIC! Yuma has a very diverse moveset.
Negativedark is offline  
Old 2010-02-16, 09:32   Link #775
klare
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
maybe we can even see Priscilla take down the organisation, attack the 2 armies in the other continent (she can fly and no need to eat), and become the one and only ruler of the world...

i still feel there is something wrong about the power balance
klare is offline  
Old 2010-02-16, 09:52   Link #776
Arturro
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Cracow
Age: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Negativedark View Post
As much of a power gap as Prisscilla has with everything else except maybe the Destroyer, I don't think Claire could possibly beat her just by awakening. Hell the way things are going, I think that in a few chapters we'll see Priss wipe out the Destroyer.
Claymore is a shounen. It's a dark fantasy, but still a shounen. Common theme in action/martial artist shounens is for main protagonist to rise from zero to hero (from dead last warrior to someone equall to no1), as well as constant battles with stronger opponents. Protagonist meet an opponent, is beaten by him, but thanks to hard work became stronger, during final fight thanks to determination founds inner strength. Sometimes instead of determination we see teamwork (power of friendship helps to overcame even most powerful enemy). Yagi is using this theme again and again in Claymore, he just execute it way better than average mangaka. He reversed it only during Theresa - Priscilla fight, but in a way, Priscilla was a hero in that fight.
__________________
I am free of all prejudices. I hate everyone equally.

Arturro is offline  
Old 2010-02-16, 09:58   Link #777
gxy1069
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arturro View Post
Claymore is a shounen. It's a dark fantasy, but still a shounen. Common theme in action/martial artist shounens is for main protagonist to rise from zero to hero (from dead last warrior to someone equall to no1), as well as constant battles with stronger opponents. Protagonist meet an opponent, is beaten by him, but thanks to hard work became stronger, during final fight thanks to determination founds inner strength. Sometimes instead of determination we see teamwork (power of friendship helps to overcame even most powerful enemy). Yagi is using this theme again and again in Claymore, he just execute it way better than average mangaka. He reversed it only during Theresa - Priscilla fight, but in a way, Priscilla was a hero in that fight.
yeah...ur so right. just like bleach, only much more darker and way better(the way i like it), though it's still pretty much the same shounen plotline. oh well, as one has said:"you just can't anymore originality in manga." who cares? and by the way i see it, claymore isn't rly this way.
gxy1069 is offline  
Old 2010-02-16, 10:00   Link #778
gxy1069
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Negativedark View Post
As much of a power gap as Prisscilla has with everything else except maybe the Destroyer, I don't think Claire could possibly beat her just by awakening. Hell the way things are going, I think that in a few chapters we'll see Priss wipe out the Destroyer.
well, comparing the destoryer and prissy, i still think priscilla's more powerful, though i don't we'll touching on destoryer vs. pris anytime soon. for now, let's just revel in the clare and priscilla feud.
gxy1069 is offline  
Old 2010-02-16, 10:03   Link #779
gxy1069
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by revan5 View Post
Viz Version
Claymore Chapter 79 page 24: Miria: "It's as though from the start they were made to be used against Awakened Beings or something even greater."

Onemanga Translation
Claymore Chapter 79 page 24: Miria: "It's as if from the beginning, it's made to be used against Awakened Beings or others." [/B]


Then there's an interesting bit about the Dragonkin themselves.

Viz Version
Claymore Chapter 79 page 27: Miria: "One side had allies in a non-human tribe that possessed an impenetrable hide and were said to be the descendants of dragons."

Onemanga Translation
Claymore Chapter 79 page 27: Miria: "One side can be considered the Dragon's kins. They're said to have non-human comrades that have extremely tough skin."

errrzzz... onemanga usually gets their scans from other sources. they dun actually translate it themselves.
gxy1069 is offline  
Old 2010-02-16, 21:00   Link #780
zato_1one
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arturro View Post
Claymore is a shounen. It's a dark fantasy, but still a shounen. Common theme in action/martial artist shounens is for main protagonist to rise from zero to hero (from dead last warrior to someone equall to no1), as well as constant battles with stronger opponents. Protagonist meet an opponent, is beaten by him, but thanks to hard work became stronger, during final fight thanks to determination founds inner strength. Sometimes instead of determination we see teamwork (power of friendship helps to overcame even most powerful enemy). Yagi is using this theme again and again in Claymore, he just execute it way better than average mangaka. He reversed it only during Theresa - Priscilla fight, but in a way, Priscilla was a hero in that fight.
What made it more interesting than your average Shounen was that many times the sacrificing was needed to overcome those obstacles. And when it happened, it just happened. No heroic deeds and no final words. They just died right there. It's pretty simple and pretty effective. IMO
__________________
zato_1one is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 21:42.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.