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Old 2010-02-15, 16:57   Link #41
roriconfan
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There can't be hell because there can't be afterlife. Life and death are part of a cycle. You die, you become wormfood, chicken eat the worms, another person eats the chicken. Since you never die permenetly (only your consiousness fades away) you never go away to some other life. And even if you do, it is just another being of the same world (see food chain)
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Old 2010-02-15, 16:57   Link #42
Kaijo
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Hell is a construct used to scare people into accepting a non-scientific, non-verifiable argument without any rational thought.

It's also a situation whereas you have a string of relationships with women who really feel like you're a nice guy, but they just don't see that spark, so let's just be friends instead... and then proceed to never contact you again!

=D
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Old 2010-02-15, 17:13   Link #43
john_kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roriconfan View Post
There can't be hell because there can't be afterlife. Life and death are part of a cycle. You die, you become wormfood, chicken eat the worms, another person eats the chicken. Since you never die permenetly (only your consiousness fades away) you never go away to some other life. And even if you do, it is just another being of the same world (see food chain)
is there any proof that your cosience doesn't change form as well?

exactly there is none. that is the glory of it. many of you just don't know
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Old 2010-02-15, 17:20   Link #44
defrule
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Times when you feel upset, sorrow, regret and such.

Imagine if you lost someone and since then you always feel upset for the loss. You have put yourself in a hell and it will continue endlessly like loop. No one can save you from that hell, you put yourself in it and it is up to yourself to take yourself out, ie. getting over the loss.
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Old 2010-02-15, 17:29   Link #45
GN0010 Nosferatu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
Hell is a construct used to scare people into accepting a non-scientific, non-verifiable argument without any rational thought.

It's also a situation whereas you have a string of relationships with women who really feel like you're a nice guy, but they just don't see that spark, so let's just be friends instead... and then proceed to never contact you again!

=D
*hugs*

I've been there bud, it's a sucky feeling indeed, but...to hell with em I say!
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Old 2010-02-15, 17:37   Link #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john_kun View Post
is there any proof that your cosience doesn't change form as well?

exactly there is none. that is the glory of it. many of you just don't know
The burden of proof is on you as you were the first to suggest there is life after death in terms of heaven and hell.

Life after death can be interpreted in so many ways. Even roriconfan's explanation is a form of afterlife. Your body decays as it returns to the earth, and later feeds those creatures who walk the earth. You become part of a cycle, part of the life of other living beings. Life goes on like that.
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Old 2010-02-15, 18:10   Link #47
john_kun
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Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo View Post
The burden of proof is on you as you were the first to suggest there is life after death in terms of heaven and hell.

Life after death can be interpreted in so many ways. Even roriconfan's explanation is a form of afterlife. Your body decays as it returns to the earth, and later feeds those creatures who walk the earth. You become part of a cycle, part of the life of other living beings. Life goes on like that.
yeah that what happens for living eyes to see. but what happens to your conscience?
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Old 2010-02-15, 18:12   Link #48
Tsuyoshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john_kun View Post
yeah that what happens for living eyes to see. but what happens to your conscience?
I shouldn't know that, seeing as I'm not dead. Like I said, burden of proof's on you.
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Old 2010-02-15, 18:21   Link #49
john_kun
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Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo View Post
I shouldn't know that, seeing as I'm not dead. Like I said, burden of proof's on you.
lol I'm not burned as we speak. I'm more curious that burden actually.

so what do you think. will your conscience change form dramatically when you die or you be conscience in a way of a worms or something?
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Old 2010-02-15, 18:30   Link #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john_kun View Post
lol I'm not burned as we speak. I'm more curious that burned actually.

so what do you think. will your conscience change form dramatically when you die or you be conscience in a way of a worms or something?
Burden, not burned. Please read carefully.
And I'm tired of having to repeat myself. I've already said it before. I don't care or think about what happens to my life after I die. If there's an afterlife or not, I'll only find out when I'm dead. The same goes for my consciousness. I have no way of knowing what will happen until I die. It's pointless to speculate.
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Old 2010-02-15, 18:31   Link #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john_kun View Post
yeah that what happens for living eyes to see. but what happens to your conscience?
When you destroy an artsy statue and grind it into pieces, it technically ceases to exist. But on some level, it's components are spread out and become parts of other things.

Happens to your body.

Why can't it be the same for your conscience, too? Maybe those flashes of memory or insight people get, is because they got a tiny bit of someone's conscience added to their own?

There are multiple valid theories, and none has been proven true. Maybe someday we'll know.
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Old 2010-02-15, 18:32   Link #52
john_kun
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yeah well sorry mate. it's burden. my spell mistake.

you don't know? but can't you at least feel it?

i guess not well it seems there is nothing more to add than
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Old 2010-02-15, 18:32   Link #53
Vexx
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One could think of a particular instance of consciousness (like you or me) as simply being a particular wave formation in the ocean. It exists for a bit and then dissolves to form other waves. A temporary "standing wave". All the energy remains... but the 'self' is transient. Complexity theory is the mathematical study of how complexity can spontaneously arise out of simpler components (e.g. the 'ghost' in the machine).

Buddhism and some other philosophies (usually eastern) dance around with this idea quite a bit, though there are some Western spiritual schools that dance a bit with it as well.
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Old 2010-02-15, 18:33   Link #54
john_kun
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it is so nice that life can be so complicated and simple at the same time?

don't you love that guys ?
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Old 2010-02-15, 20:11   Link #55
roriconfan
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Let's say it is you, living your normal life. Then for any reason you can think of, you lose any one of the following traits: hunger, thirst, lust, pain.
Will that change your personality? Of course it will. You will lose a major factor of interaction with the enviroment.
Now imagine losing all of them because you die or fall in a coma. You are no longer an individual as you have no means to compare yourself with the surrounds and distinguish you from anything else.
FMA really said it straight in your face. The world is me, I am the world. Even NGE mentioned it in a way through the AT field.
The term of what is an egoist: Someone who cares more about himself than... about me... Our egoism is our consiense. Without ego, we are robots following commands blindly. Or we are dead. Or we are in a coma. Or we are zealots to some scam high cause.
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Old 2010-02-15, 20:19   Link #56
john_kun
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we are not our ego. we can see beyond that at rare times.

just like we can sense how beautiful the world is and how it is full of life.

some kind of six th sense i suggest.

ego is just side effect of you always thinking. it is thoughts about how great you are and nothing about what you might truly be when you die. or realize that.

Last edited by john_kun; 2010-02-15 at 22:34.
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Old 2010-02-15, 20:52   Link #57
Urzu 7
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post

The version of "hell" in the Robin William's movie "What Things May Come" was very interesting to me --- in that movie, the afterlife was basically a self-judgement destination.

As for my personal convictions.... the afterlife as defined by most religions is wishful thinking. We have no idea if anything survives death and it scares humanity enough to rationalize stories about it.
I definitely believe there is an afterlife. I have a grandmother who passed away and she has reached out to the family and has done so to let us know she is still alive and that there is an afterlife. She has reached out in very explicit and clear ways that leave no doubt that she is interacting with us from the other side. I assure people that there is an afterlife.

Just as sure as I am about there being a Heaven, I'm sure there is a hell. Now, people can experience hell while they are alive. Suffering is a form of it, I believe. This is a Buddhist belief. While many Buddhist believe in an afterlife version of hell, Buddhist also believe that suffering in life is a form of hell (and feeling happines and joy in life is a form of Heaven). I believe there are multiple levels to Heaven and Hell. Different levels correspond to how good or bad you've been in life, simply speaking. This concept is found in different religions, including Buddhism and Hinduism.

Now Vexx, you speak of What Dreams May Come and say it portrays hell as a self Judgement. This is in line with Islam in a way. The Muslims believe in Judgement day, where all souls end up judging themselves. However, you don't really call the shots. In this phenomenal process, the soul is fully aware of every little thing about itself and the true nature of all its actions it committed. There is no bias and twisting things to your liking. In light of this full awareness, you sort of self-judge yourself. If you were a bad person, you will be unhappy and be in a state of hell. If you were terrible, you have a really bad afterlife. If you were good or very good, your salvation is great or incredible and so forth. I think that sounds pretty fair. This viewpoint is open to all people; meaning non-Muslims can have a good afterlife too, if they lived a good life.

Well, I like that belief from the religion, but I don't really believe in that religion. But I believe that the afterlife will be a result; a consequence of your life. So, if you are overall a good person who did much good in the world, you will enjoy peace and joy in the afterlife, I believe.

Also, about the person who cited Diyu on page one...I think a lot of those concepts are not reports of truth (such as from people who had mystical experiences), but rather...as Vexx said, it seems like a lot of those concepts are just things made up by people to keep the masses in line. I mean...peeping toms having their eyes gouged out? Bogus crap right there. That kind of punishment isn't fit for a petty thing as that. But whatever, I see that the concept of Diyu has combined with much folklore (although I'm sure that some of it is true/partially true).
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Old 2010-02-15, 20:57   Link #58
Lio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john_kun
we are not our ego. we can see beyond that at rare times.

just like we can sense how beautiful the world is and how it is full of life.

some kind of six th sense i suggest.

ego is jsut side effect of you always thinking. it is thoughts about how great you are and nothing about what you might truly be when you die. or realize that.
That's right. The ego is simply the result of how your mind has been conditioned by the past.

You are much bigger than your ego.

To be trapped in that small world of being identified with the ego, the endless spiral of always trying to feel superior and then grieving when you feel inferior - that is true hell.

Oh that, and it's a denser version of "heck".
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Old 2010-02-15, 21:19   Link #59
john_kun
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That's right. The ego is simply the result of how your mind has been conditioned by the past.

You are much bigger than your ego.

To be trapped in that small world of being identified with the ego, the endless spiral of always trying to feel superior and then grieving when you feel inferior - that is true hell.

Oh that, and it's a denser version of "heck".
wow I'm impressed. you seem to know exactly what I'm talking about.

yeah ego has to sides as you say. one for grieving as in punishing yourself. this one looks into the past and second one looks into the future making you an illusion that you are inferior to everyone else and how great you are.
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Old 2010-02-15, 22:29   Link #60
Master_Yoma
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Hell is a lie there is no such thing
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