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Old 2010-02-19, 08:43   Link #1
roankun
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Speculation on The Future of the Haruhi Anime Franchise, post-Disappearance

ahem.
not sure if this should be here but... with the haruhi movie finished... and with kyoani working on k-on season 2... does that mean, REALLY mean that the rest of the novels won't be animated?


[Mod Note: This thread was a tangent split off from the Disappearance movie News & Anticipation thread.]

Last edited by relentlessflame; 2010-02-20 at 17:16. Reason: topic split
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Old 2010-02-19, 09:30   Link #2
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Originally Posted by roankun View Post
ahem.
not sure if this should be here but... with the haruhi movie finished... and with kyoani working on k-on season 2... does that mean, REALLY mean that the rest of the novels won't be animated?
...No. KyoAni can certainly come back to it later, and while the movie's out, I'd honestly doubt they'd (Kadokawa included) even hint at a possible next season.
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Old 2010-02-19, 11:44   Link #3
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Originally Posted by aegisofrime View Post
I don't buy it.
You know, personally I don't buy it either, and have said so many times. But this has been going on for years now (for as long as Haruhi and KyoAni have been popular), and it doesn't show any signs of stopping. So it's easier to just recognize what's going on and move on rather than dwelling on it.

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Originally Posted by roankun View Post
ahem.
not sure if this should be here but... with the haruhi movie finished... and with kyoani working on k-on season 2... does that mean, REALLY mean that the rest of the novels won't be animated?
Yeah, as was said above, it doesn't necessarily mean that. For years now, Kyoto Animation has basically alternated between projects for two main customers: Kadokawa and Pony Canyon. Haruhi is a Kadokawa production, and K-On!(!) is a Pony Canyon production. So if the pattern continues, we can expect their next show to be for Kadokawa. I would sort of guess that they might take a little break from Haruhi though just to do something new for a change, but that doesn't by any means they're done with Haruhi, especially if the rumours are true and the author starts releasing the novels again.
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Old 2010-02-19, 13:08   Link #4
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
I don't buy it. Is it necessary to laud at strengths and successes in works of art? Sure, do that for cars, computer products, cellphones etc. But when it comes to things like music and anime it's a purely personal choice. I can love rap all I want but it can be nothing to someone else. And I won't praise rap in a rap forum just because I love it. One man's meat is another man's poison, as they say.

See what I just did there?
Live and let live, that's what the forums are for anyway. Discussion. Kaoishin has his views about the hype that comes out as cynical, but if you think about it, perfectly logical. These facts and figures do gives us some semblance of confirmation that the movie is doing well, but that's all it is. We don't have official figures, we don't have 'professional' reviews. Right now, though, I'm pretty content with what we have.

I'm not going to go into the Nanoha movie thread too because I know Nanoha fans are rabid. Really, rabid

Though that 'IT'S THE GREATEST MOVIE OF ALL TIME!!!' comment was rather uncalled for, though.

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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
You know, personally I don't buy it either, and have said so many times. But this has been going on for years now (for as long as Haruhi and KyoAni have been popular), and it doesn't show any signs of stopping. So it's easier to just recognize what's going on and move on rather than dwelling on it.

Yeah, as was said above, it doesn't necessarily mean that. For years now, Kyoto Animation has basically alternated between projects for two main customers: Kadokawa and Pony Canyon. Haruhi is a Kadokawa production, and K-On!(!) is a Pony Canyon production. So if the pattern continues, we can expect their next show to be for Kadokawa. I would sort of guess that they might take a little break from Haruhi though just to do something new for a change, but that doesn't by any means they're done with Haruhi, especially if the rumours are true and the author starts releasing the novels again.
I seriously doubt they'll destroy their biggest cash cow. They can throw another Gekisou, sell more merchandise, troll people even more and earn a ton of money from new fans and rejuvenated fans from the Disappearance movie. There's still a lot of content in the light novels to be animated (new volume even coming out), unlike Bakemonogatari (which is an excellent show, by the way), so there's no restrictions on material or writers' block.

Just because they're working on K-ON! season 2 doesn't mean they'll abandon Haruhi. Though it is highly possible they'll make us wait a while for new episodes...
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Old 2010-02-19, 13:44   Link #5
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Originally Posted by edkedkedk View Post
I seriously doubt they'll destroy their biggest cash cow.
Haruhi isn't necessarily KyoAni's "biggest cash cow" anymore.

K-On! sold way better in 2009 than Haruhi 2009 did, and I think that K-On! sold better than even Haruhi 2006 did.


I'm certainly not saying that I like this, but it's the facts, and it's facts that KyoAni themselves have to be considering.

Haruhi isn't necessarily KyoAni's flagship title anymore... and if it isn't, it only makes commercial sense for Kyoani to focus more on K-On! (unless Season 2 exhausts all possible material there, of course).


Also, one thing I strongly dislike is...

1) How some Haruhi fans talk about KyoAni "trolling", and...

2) Talk about this like it's a good thing.


I think the "trolling" argument is overstated.

Viral marketing may very well have been something that KyoAni was guilty of, but I'm not sure if I would call that "trolling", per se.


Also, given how incredibly long Volume 10 has taken so far, I'm not sure how 'soon' its arrival will be.


Chances are there will be more Haruhi anime material, but if there's one thing that we fans of this anime/light novel franchise should know by now, it's to be very cautious, and to be very patient. And to not assume anything.
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Old 2010-02-19, 13:52   Link #6
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Haruhi isn't necessarily KyoAni's "biggest cash cow" anymore.
I think practically everything you said is more applicable to Kadokawa (other than the fact that K-ON! is a cash cow for KyoAni). KyoAni doesn't do merch or stuff like that. They're just an animation studio.

But that line has tended to be blurred around here. Does anyone have any insight into precisely the way it works between a Production company and a Studio?
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Old 2010-02-19, 14:04   Link #7
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post

Also, one thing I strongly dislike is...

1) How some Haruhi fans talk about KyoAni "trolling", and...

2) Talk about this like it's a good thing.


I think the "trolling" argument is overstated.

Viral marketing may very well have been something that KyoAni was guilty of, but I'm not sure if I would call that "trolling", per se.

I myself dislike trolling; it's irritating and often get the fans' hopes up for nothing. But I have accepted that KyoAni's style of 'trolling' has actually become one of their signature moves, and I use it freely and casually in a joking manner. If that upsets you I apologize.

But KyoAni's 'trolling' is also good in the sense that they actually care about the series enough to create 'troll-material'. I myself haven't experienced much of the so-called trolling, but I believe that while there's a brief period of disappointment after the truth is revealed, I look forward to them actually producing the things they hype. Think of it as a stepping stone to the actual thing, if you will.

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Originally Posted by spawnofthejudge View Post
I think practically everything you said is more applicable to Kadokawa (other than the fact that K-ON! is a cash cow for KyoAni). KyoAni doesn't do merch or stuff like that. They're just an animation studio.

But that line has tended to be blurred around here. Does anyone have any insight into precisely the way it works between a Production company and a Studio?
I don't know much about how that works, but remember; if Kadokawa earns more money out of it, the more willing they'll be to finance future episodes, which in turn translates to revenue and profit for KyoAni.
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Old 2010-02-19, 14:08   Link #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Haruhi isn't necessarily KyoAni's "biggest cash cow" anymore.

K-On! sold way better in 2009 than Haruhi 2009 did, and I think that K-On! sold better than even Haruhi 2006 did.
K-On! and Bakemonogatari both sold a lot better BR-wise than Haruhi (2006) did with its DVDs. Since Haruhi 2009 only came out on DVD, it'll be interesting to see how a BR release will do. A lot of fans are speculating (but nothing at all is confirmed) about a BR-BOX release like Kanon and Clannad were (but both of those were Pony Canyon releases unlike Haruhi for Kadokawa so that may not be in the plans)

Quote:
I'm certainly not saying that I like this, but it's the facts, and it's facts that KyoAni themselves have to be considering.

Haruhi isn't necessarily KyoAni's flagship title anymore... and if it isn't, it only makes commercial sense for Kyoani to focus more on K-On! (unless Season 2 exhausts all possible material there, of course).
I think KyoAni may have recognized the K-On! mania and decided to capitalize on the success (since it's the first thing they put out since Haruhi's "second period"). What may be telling is which series comes out after K-On!'s season 2 (like relentlessflame said, they've been switching production companies, so after that will be something of Kadokawa if the trend holds)

Quote:
Also, one thing I strongly dislike is...

1) How some Haruhi fans talk about KyoAni "trolling", and...

2) Talk about this like it's a good thing.


I think the "trolling" argument is overstated.

Viral marketing may very well have been something that KyoAni was guilty of, but I'm not sure if I would call that "trolling", per se.


Also, given how incredibly long Volume 10 has taken so far, I'm not sure how 'soon' its arrival will be.


Chances are there will be more Haruhi anime material, but if there's one thing that we fans of this anime/light novel franchise should know by now, it's to be very cautious, and to be very patient. And to not assume anything.
I'm tired of hearing about "KyoAni trolling" as well since I'm pretty sure a lot of the hints came from Kadokawa instead (like a lot of the stuff to do with the website since that's owned by Kadokawa). I don't want to say that it's a good thing because waiting three years to put out something new isn't a smart idea, but everything seemed to have been planned in hindsight, or at least since the December 18th 2007 Yuki poster. I wrote a post about the past three years for Cartoon Leap if anyone wants to hear my full thoughts on the situation.

I don't think any fans know what's going to happen with the franchise; only the executives at Kadokawa and maybe KyoAni do. I'd love to hear that there will be new episodes as soon as this fall in addition to the tenth novel, but I don't think it'll come out that way or anything resembling that. Patience will hold us through the tough times (just like a wait for DVD/Blu-Ray release for Shōshitsu).
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Last edited by ultimatemegax; 2010-02-19 at 14:54. Reason: making up for an absolutely stupid mistake
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Old 2010-02-19, 14:42   Link #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post

Also, one thing I strongly dislike is...

1) How some Haruhi fans talk about KyoAni "trolling", and...

2) Talk about this like it's a good thing.


I think the "trolling" argument is overstated.

Viral marketing may very well have been something that KyoAni was guilty of, but I'm not sure if I would call that "trolling", per se.
I think the whole "trolling" thing is a bit of 4chan making it's way onto other forums. I may dislike Kadokawa/Kyoani's advertising scheme the majority of the time, but I don't think it's trolling....because....well....not everything in the world is trolling contrary to what 4chan believes and there's a little label called "bad policy" or at least "questionable policy" which I think is far more fitting.

Also are you sure the ones talking about Kyoani "trolling" as a good thing aren't the types that think everything Kyoani does is a stroke of masterful genius on top of buying into the idea that the business world is somehow anything like 4chan? I think the source needs to be considered in the cases you describe.
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Old 2010-02-19, 14:52   Link #10
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I think practically everything you said is more applicable to Kadokawa (other than the fact that K-ON! is a cash cow for KyoAni). KyoAni doesn't do merch or stuff like that. They're just an animation studio.

But that line has tended to be blurred around here. Does anyone have any insight into precisely the way it works between a Production company and a Studio?
Well, Kyoto Animation is part of the Production Committee for both of these shows. The companies in the production committee are the ones who put forward the initial investment, and so get a negotiated cut of all the licensing fees and merchandise sales. In Kyoto Animation's case, them being part of the production committee could be as simple as them not being paid much/anything upfront in exchange for that end-of-the-day cut. They also actually do create and sell their own merchandise through their online store, in addition to offering exclusive bonus items when you order directly from them -- one of the benefits of being a Production Committee member, I'm sure. So at the end of the day, they're not exactly just an animation studio in these cases -- they're a production partner. Still though, in Haruhi's case Kadokawa is the primary benefactor, since they're the publisher of the original novels (and manga, and games, and the anime DVDs, etc. etc.) and sort of the major "stakeholder" in the Haruhi franchise.

Anyway, to bring thing back around to the main point again, Kyoto Animation is almost certainly going to keep on animating projects in partnership with Kadokawa, and Haruhi has been a proven solid seller. What other properties to Kadokawa have on hand that have a reliable chance of being an even better seller? Even though K-On is selling well, Kyoto Animation still needs other projects as well to fill up their schedule. So it's not as if the two properties are really "in competition" with each other anyway.

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Originally Posted by ultimatemegax View Post
like relentlessboredom said
Oh, I'm hurt!

Well, not like the business practices of these companies is all that exciting, but it's not if we can restrict the thread entirely to nothing but strict movie-only talk either. So long as it doesn't get too far out-of-hand and venture straight into off-topic territory.
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Old 2010-02-19, 14:53   Link #11
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Oh, I'm hurt!

Well, not like the business practices of these companies is all that exciting, but it's not if we can restrict the thread entirely to nothing but strict movie-only talk.
I am so sorry. There is a poster on another board I frequent for general information that has a title of relentlessboredom and I merged the two of you together. I offer my sincerest apologies, I did not mean to offend you in any matter.
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Old 2010-02-19, 14:56   Link #12
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I am so sorry. There is a poster on another board I frequent for general information that has a title of relentlessboredom and I merged the two of you together. I offer my sincerest apologies, I did not mean to offend you in any matter.
Hahaha! No no, not at all. I thought it was funny.
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Old 2010-02-19, 20:03   Link #13
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I doubt that a show like K-On! would even survive three years between seasons so for this long pause Haruhi did quite well. I also think that KyoAni really chose the right episodes for the first "season", because I think the second season was not so well-received because the novel material wasn't as good (beside the Endless Eight stretching^^). I read the Sigh novel after I watched the episodes and KyoAni really improved it. I enjoyed the Melancholy novel on the other hand and I watched the anime episodes about 4-5 times before reading it.

The 2nd "season" really looked to me like training for "Disappearance" and it looks like Haruhi still does enough money to justify a new series. Perhaps the next Kadokawa series will be more Full Metal Panic because this is series that does also internationally very well and there seems to be a demand for it. Furthermore, the creator still works quite often for KyoAni, so I really think (and hope^^) that FMP will be the next Kadokawa project. Then they can do more Haruhi, perhaps spring or fall 2011.
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Old 2010-02-19, 20:24   Link #14
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Old 2010-02-19, 20:25   Link #15
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oh god I want my Little Busters anime why you remind me?

also who knows when KyoAni will return to his other super power show Lucky Star
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Old 2010-02-19, 20:38   Link #16
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oh god I want my Little Busters anime why you remind me?

also who knows when KyoAni will return to his other super power show Lucky Star
Lucky Star seems to me very finished because at least the anime ends more or less with graduation if I remember correctly.

Little Busters would be Pony Canyon, wouldn't it? It might be possible to do FMP in fall 2010, Little Busters in spring 2011 and Haruhi "S3" in fall 2011. Then everybody should be satisfied (if there's really no more LS material).
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Old 2010-02-19, 22:41   Link #17
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Lucky Star seems to me very finished because at least the anime ends more or less with graduation if I remember correctly.

Little Busters would be Pony Canyon, wouldn't it? It might be possible to do FMP in fall 2010, Little Busters in spring 2011 and Haruhi "S3" in fall 2011. Then everybody should be satisfied (if there's really no more LS material).
Mostly, Kyoani made a lot of money with The Disappearance Film, but I don't think kyoani will animate Little Busters. Kyoani animated 3 Key visual Novels (Air,Kanon,and Clannad). I just think some other animation studio might animate Little Busters instead of Kyoani. Also, I think that, Haruhi season 3 might be announced, but if this happen, then It won't be called Melancholy anymore.

-Random-

I hope kyoani will make FMP season 4!
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Old 2010-02-19, 23:11   Link #18
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Originally Posted by TMSIDR View Post
I doubt that a show like K-On! would even survive three years between seasons so for this long pause Haruhi did quite well. I also think that KyoAni really chose the right episodes for the first "season", because I think the second season was not so well-received because the novel material wasn't as good (beside the Endless Eight stretching^^). I read the Sigh novel after I watched the episodes and KyoAni really improved it. I enjoyed the Melancholy novel on the other hand and I watched the anime episodes about 4-5 times before reading it.
One of KyoAni's best strengths, when they do it correctly, is adapting a work faithfully, but still taking advantage of the change in medium. When this is done well, you get the uncommon situation of a fan enjoying the adaptation more than the original, even if they experienced the original first.

There is a lot of bias invested into the first version of an adaptation that one sees. This is why so many fansub watchers hate English dubs, and why so many fans of books and manga hate their movie or television series adaptations. Sure, there are some bad adaptations and dubs, but "horrible" adaptations and dubs are far less common than one thinks. Often people who "never read the book or the manga", or who "saw it first on Adult Swim" still prefer the adaptation even after later seeing/reading the original.

What KyoAni does so well (when they do it) is keep the best that the source material has to offer, but don't make themselves slaves to that source material when it wouldn't work in an anime format. Best examples of this are easily Live Alive and Day of Sagittarius. In the former, they took the vague details present in the original novel chapter and leveraged Aya Hirano's star power and the fans' predilection for snappy music, bumped the animation budget a bit, and managed to very successfully hide the thinnest plot in the novels in one of the series' most popular episodes. In the latter, they managed to turn some necessarily dry novel material into a rousing tribute to Space Battleship Yamato and "Gun**m", while keeping the simple but effective plot and character advancement.

And since novel sources are almost by definition more detailed than their television/movie adaptations, the adaptation-first fans get a treat when they pick up the novel and find new things in it to tickle their fancy. It's win-win.
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Old 2010-02-19, 23:16   Link #19
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Old 2010-02-19, 23:52   Link #20
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What KyoAni does so well (when they do it) is keep the best that the source material has to offer, but don't make themselves slaves to that source material when it wouldn't work in an anime format.
I would contest that with Clannad After Stories wonky ass ending as an example of what works for a game format not necessarily working for the anime format. Honestly I've always felt the exact opposite, that they are very much slaves to the source material, for better or for worse.
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