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Old 2010-01-23, 21:33   Link #81
quigonkenny
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I imagine "esper" is most prominently used because the most connotatively appropriate English term would be "mutant", which would summon a buttload of Marvel Disney lawyers.... We don't really have a wide-use term in English that covers all the various types of "esper" (psychokinetic, telepathic, pyrokinetic, etc.).
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Old 2010-01-23, 21:42   Link #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
It's "Esper", not "ESPer", although the term does originate from ESP.

More here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by edkedkedk View Post
Ah I see. No wonder, I always found it weird that people used Esper instead of ESPer. Turns out they are two different fields of powers.
Hm? As far I know ESPer and Esper are jsut two ways to write the same thing. Even taht wikipedia link make no difference between the two. "ESPer" is just "ESP + 'er'" while "Esper" is just to make it seen less silly isn't it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
It's notable that the term "esper" is actually used in the original Japanese, but only once. In the beginning Melancholy VI, when Kyon is mocking Koizumi, he refers to the Organization as the "Shounen Esper Sentai", in parody of the typical title of a Power Rangers-type show.
Oh, I didn't know that. I guess this make the translation have somewhat more sense.

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Originally Posted by quigonkenny View Post
I imagine "esper" is most prominently used because the most connotatively appropriate English term would be "mutant", which would summon a buttload of Marvel Disney lawyers.... We don't really have a wide-use term in English that covers all the various types of "esper" (psychokinetic, telepathic, pyrokinetic, etc.).
No to mention 'mutant' has a completely different root. While you could say they were 'mutated' by Haruhi, people usually relate the mutations to amore genetic level. Which is not quite right. Wouldn't "Paranormal" be a better term?

Last edited by Heatth; 2010-01-23 at 22:38.
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Old 2010-01-23, 22:14   Link #83
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They're "Supers." Let's go with that. And hope Disney doesn't sue...
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Old 2010-01-23, 23:17   Link #84
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Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane View Post
They're "Supers." Let's go with that. And hope Disney doesn't sue...
Yeah, good luck with that last part...

Although with their recent purchase of Marvel Comics, if Disney ever makes a sequel to The Incredibles, they'll actually be legally able to call them "superheroes" (Marvel and DC have a joint trademark on the term, similar to how the NFL has a trademark on the terms "Super Bowl" and "Super Sunday").

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Originally Posted by Heatth View Post
No to mention 'mutant' has a completely different root. While you could say they were 'mutated' by Haruhi, people usually relate the mutations to amore genetic level. Which is not quite right. Wouldn't "Paranormal" be a better term?
Nah. "Paranormal" is more "ghosts and demons" supernatural than "dimensional travel and energy projection" supernatural. Plus there's the whole crappy SyFy "reality" show thing... *shudders*

And mileage varies on "mutant". If you start out describing people as such, the public expects an extra arm or horrible growths, but if you show the people flying around and shooting red energy from their hands and don't call them anything, the public starts looking for the blue and yellow spandex and the bald guy in the wheelchair all on its own.
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Old 2010-01-24, 07:54   Link #85
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The term '超能力者' literally means, Super (超) Powered (能力) Person (者). But this covers such a wide spread of characters (Yuki and even Mikuru could be considered) that I just find it weird to translate it to simply, Esper.
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Old 2010-01-24, 10:14   Link #86
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Like I said, Supers. Doesn't imply either good or bad, and it fits perfectly. Besides, it's not like it's any more copyright infringing than using "sliders" for people who can dimension hop.
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Old 2010-02-20, 14:48   Link #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quigonkenny View Post
Nah. "Paranormal" is more "ghosts and demons" supernatural than "dimensional travel and energy projection" supernatural. Plus there's the whole crappy SyFy "reality" show thing... *shudders*
Do you think so? I would use it to just describe 'any supernatural shit'. Anyway, it would be a better translation then psychic''.

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Originally Posted by quigonkenny View Post
And mileage varies on "mutant". If you start out describing people as such, the public expects an extra arm or horrible growths, but if you show the people flying around and shooting red energy from their hands and don't call them anything, the public starts looking for the blue and yellow spandex and the bald guy in the wheelchair all on its own.
I meant that 'mutant' is someone who is, well, 'muted'. People usually associate it to in a genetic level. Haruhiverse ESPer is more like 'magic' as in 'no scientif explanation, ot even a bull one)

Quote:
Originally Posted by edkedkedk View Post
The term '超能力者' literally means, Super (超) Powered (能力) Person (者). But this covers such a wide spread of characters (Yuki and even Mikuru could be considered) that I just find it weird to translate it to simply, Esper.
I believe it is meant to be 'normal people with super power', as in someone who is born in Earth and is pretty common, exept it shoots beams or something. Neither Yuki nor Mikuru qualify, tough Itsuki (and that other ESPer who appear in story) does.



Edit with a new topic:
Recently I was rereading the first book and noticed something. In the end of the Chapter 6 Itsuki says that he just 'end up' with the knowledge about the consequences of letting the Avatars be (as well as about his powers) and "the same goes for everyone in the Agency" (Hachette's translation).

There is something off there. I recall Koizumi saying, in the same book, that there are "probably ten (espers) or so around the world". How would be that everybody? Also, I find hard to believe such organization wouldn't employ some random people for menial tasks. Of course, in the end 'everybody' dos 'end up' with said knowledge in a way or another, since the espers are there to tell then.

However, this made me wonder who, exactly, found the Agency. Who would creat such massive organization to fight somewhat invisible enemies? It should be someone, at very best, really close to on of these 'ten or so' espers. More probably, it should be an esper him/herself. After all it is harcd to believe someon would spend so much money and time if s/he wasn't sure of what s/he is doing, and the only way would be beingan esper her/himself.

Well, it is just speculation. For some reason I doubt we will ever know. Unlike the other two groups, the Agency effect more the 'normal' world, and it would be nice knowng more about then.
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Old 2010-02-20, 15:08   Link #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heatth View Post
Edit with a new topic:
Recently I was rereading the first book and noticed something. In the end of the Chapter 6 Itsuki says that he just 'end up' with the knowledge about the consequences of letting the Avatars be (as well as about his powers) and "the same goes for everyone in the Agency" (Hachette's translation).

There is something off there. I recall Koizumi saying, in the same book, that there are "probably ten (espers) or so around the world". How would be that everybody? Also, I find hard to believe such organization wouldn't employ some random people for menial tasks. Of course, in the end 'everybody' dos 'end up' with said knowledge in a way or another, since the espers are there to tell then.

However, this made me wonder who, exactly, found the Agency. Who would creat such massive organization to fight somewhat invisible enemies? It should be someone, at very best, really close to on of these 'ten or so' espers. More probably, it should be an esper him/herself. After all it is harcd to believe someon would spend so much money and time if s/he wasn't sure of what s/he is doing, and the only way would be beingan esper her/himself.

Well, it is just speculation. For some reason I doubt we will ever know. Unlike the other two groups, the Agency effect more the 'normal' world, and it would be nice knowng more about then.
You are correct on the quote (pg. 108 from the same edition). I think that the Agency employs people like Arakawa-san and Mori-san to assist in activities that aid the espers such as taxi drivers and reconnaissance. As for who created it, it'd probably be one or more of the espers with a bunch of friends that could fund the Agency and keep the world safe. Likely that person(s) took the investors into closed space like Koizumi did with Kyon and said "I need some money to fight these things."

Since Tanigawa-san doesn't expand so much on the Agency, I doubt we'll ever know. I'm not even sure he's even thought of it. This way he can use the Agency as needed, much like he does with time travel and "classified information" to prevent inconsistencies.

vvv cut out, I misremembered the spoiler policy for these threads.
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Last edited by ultimatemegax; 2010-02-20 at 18:33.
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Old 2010-02-20, 17:00   Link #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ultimatemegax View Post
You are correct on the quote (pg. 108 from the same edition). I think that the Agency employs people like Arakawa-san and Mori-san to assist in activities that aid the espers such as taxi drivers and reconnaissance. As for who created it, it'd probably be one or more of the espers with a bunch of friends that could fund the Agency and keep the world safe. Likely that person(s) took the investors into closed space like Koizumi did with Kyon and said "I need some money to fight these things."
This is more likely the case. However, it is not that simple. Even if someone see the Avatars, it is not like they are really destroing the world. They are destroing an unknow space that do not effect, by what an observer can tell, the real world. Also, if you are going only by 'fighting Avatars', it don't need that much money, just means to transport a bunch of people quickly to random localizations. It requires money, sure, but I believe it is less then what the Agency would need to buy a private island or investigate peoples life (we know they did, at last, investigated all Kyon's, probably Haruhi's too). You probably agree it is considerable harder to convince anyone that Haruhi is 'God' (or even that she has any kind of power).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ultimatemegax View Post
Since Tanigawa-san doesn't expand so much on the Agency (deliberately as Mori doesn't reveal anything to Kyon in Intrigue), I doubt we'll ever know. I'm not even sure he's even thought of it. This way he can use the Agency as needed, much like he does with time travel and "classified information" to prevent inconsistencies.
I view in another way. While what you say is a possibility, Tanigawa still reveal bits of information from time to time for all organizations.
Spoiler for Latter stuff:

So much foretelling is why I find hard to believe the series is intended to end in the 10th volume.

(yeah, I know that originaly it wasn't even intended to go past the volume 1, but I believe Tanigawa changed that when he started to wrote the later ones.)

PP:
ultimatemegax, if you could, it would be nice tag/delete the Tsuruya bit in your post. It is really minor, but it is Vol. 7 spoiler.

Last edited by Heatth; 2010-02-20 at 17:11. Reason: Just realized about the spoilers
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Old 2010-02-20, 18:54   Link #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heatth View Post
This is more likely the case. However, it is not that simple. Even if someone see the Avatars, it is not like they are really destroing the world. They are destroing an unknow space that do not effect, by what an observer can tell, the real world. Also, if you are going only by 'fighting Avatars', it don't need that much money, just means to transport a bunch of people quickly to random localizations. It requires money, sure, but I believe it is less then what the Agency would need to buy a private island or investigate peoples life (we know they did, at last, investigated all Kyon's, probably Haruhi's too). You probably agree it is considerable harder to convince anyone that Haruhi is 'God' (or even that she has any kind of power).



I view in another way. While what you say is a possibility, Tanigawa still reveal bits of information from time to time for all organizations.
Spoiler for Latter stuff:

So much foretelling is why I find hard to believe the series is intended to end in the 10th volume.

(yeah, I know that originaly it wasn't even intended to go past the volume 1, but I believe Tanigawa changed that when he started to wrote the later ones.)

PP:
ultimatemegax, if you could, it would be nice tag/delete the Tsuruya bit in your post. It is really minor, but it is Vol. 7 spoiler.
Well, I just reviewed the official translation put out by Little, Brown:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little, Brown translation
"You cay we. Which means there are a lot more like you? Espers or whatever?"

"I wouldn't say that there are a lot, but there are quite a few of us. I'm part of the outer circle so I can't say for sure, but there are probably ten or so around the world. All of them should belong to the Agency"
It would appear that the Agency was founded and then took in the espers as staff. Koizumi states that the purpose of the Agency was primarily to observe Haruhi, so I would assume that funds were gathered somehow and Koizumi has either stated plans to the Agency or received them to take her to the lone island or whatever she needed. I agree that they wouldn't have needed much money besides transportation costs if all they were doing was transporting the espers, but they may have other plans than what we know of.

I think Tanigawa-san just wanted a mysterious organization that was controlling things behind the scenes, like a mafia-type group. I agree that we've gotten many hints behind the groups like the schools of thought in the ITDE, a likely superior for Mikuru, and what little we know about the Agency.
Spoiler:


I too share the thought that there's too much foreshadowing to end the novels after 10. I'm pretty confident it'll go on for a while, once Tanigawa-san starts writing again. I still find it odd that Boredom was the first story published (in the Sneaker before the first novel came out) if he was only intending of doing the one book.
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Old 2010-02-20, 19:00   Link #91
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Chances are, Boredom was written due to having to meet some sort of deadline that he couldn't meet with Melancholy. Would certainly explain the almost nonexistent plot of it.
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Old 2010-02-20, 22:03   Link #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ultimatemegax View Post
It would appear that the Agency was founded and then took in the espers as staff. Koizumi states that the purpose of the Agency was primarily to observe Haruhi, so I would assume that funds were gathered somehow and Koizumi has either stated plans to the Agency or received them to take her to the lone island or whatever she needed. I agree that they wouldn't have needed much money besides transportation costs if all they were doing was transporting the espers, but they may have other plans than what we know of.
They don't really need to have other plans. We already know they investigate throughly one's life in matter of weeks (They have already investigated Kyon's life by the time he discovered about espers, but this was just a few weeks after he have befriend Haruhi). I am not sure about the costs, but it sound pretty expensive. They also mentioned once they do investigate the interfaces. Given that, for all they know, Haruhi is literallythe most important person in the world/universe, this is not an exageration. I was just pointing how hard would would be convincing the sponsors to give that much (who would believe in such tale of a teenager being 'God'?). There is no doubt this was resoved somehow, anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ultimatemegax View Post
I think Tanigawa-san just wanted a mysterious organization that was controlling things behind the scenes, like a mafia-type group.
I believe that was the original intention. Not only the Agency, all the main organizations are conveniently very misterious (the only one who don't hide secrets is too weird to be fully comprehended). However, this ends when hints start to show up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ultimatemegax View Post
Spoiler:
Spoiler for Future:


Quote:
Originally Posted by ultimatemegax View Post
I still find it odd that Boredom was the first story published (in the Sneaker before the first novel came out) if he was only intending of doing the one book.
Nah. Both Boredom and Melancholy are stand-alone. As Kogetsu pointed, Boredom plot is rether shalow, the only purpose in the story is intruduce Tsuruya and Imouto-chan as semi-important characters and to stabilish the status quo. In any case, if the story ended with Melancholy, it would have had a good end with a bonus gaiden chapter. Of course Tanigawa was smart enough to leave th path to a sequel open in a form it wouldn't seen forced.
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Old 2010-02-21, 11:04   Link #93
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True, I would think that only a part of being a successful writer is writing good stories. The other part is being savvy enough to leave loopholes like that for business purposes.

Anyway, if there are only 10 espers, I have to wonder about the transportation costs part. If all of the closed spaces happen in Japan, then it wouldn't be a big problem, just buy everyone a train ticket and wish them luck. But if some are popping up overseas, that's going to add up quickly. Which in turn gives a baseline for the minimum amount of support they would need.

Do we ever get any indication on any incidents outside Japan?
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Old 2010-02-21, 11:11   Link #94
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Anyway, if there are only 10 espers, I have to wonder about the transportation costs part. If all of the closed spaces happen in Japan, then it wouldn't be a big problem, just buy everyone a train ticket and wish them luck. But if some are popping up overseas, that's going to add up quickly. Which in turn gives a baseline for the minimum amount of support they would need.

Do we ever get any indication on any incidents outside Japan?
Isn't it typical for writers to center their novels around their homeland? I wouldn't be surprised if 'all over the world' meant all over Japan. When it comes to world conquest, people have a surprisingly small view.
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Old 2010-02-21, 15:23   Link #95
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Isn't it typical for writers to center their novels around their homeland? I wouldn't be surprised if 'all over the world' meant all over Japan. When it comes to world conquest, people have a surprisingly small view.
Well, Tokyo is the center of the universe, after all...
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Old 2010-02-21, 15:53   Link #96
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Anyway, if there are only 10 espers, I have to wonder about the transportation costs part. If all of the closed spaces happen in Japan, then it wouldn't be a big problem, just buy everyone a train ticket and wish them luck. But if some are popping up overseas, that's going to add up quickly. Which in turn gives a baseline for the minimum amount of support they would need.

Do we ever get any indication on any incidents outside Japan?
Hmmm, I guess you have a point. Actually Koizmi did mentioned that there are "probably ten (espers) or so around the world", and Kyon mentioned, when he saw the Avatar hunting, that he doubted the number of ball of lights reached 2 digits.

If there are any esper outside Japan, I guess it is possible to guess taht, at last once, there was a closed space oversea.

Quote:
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Isn't it typical for writers to center their novels around their homeland? I wouldn't be surprised if 'all over the world' meant all over Japan. When it comes to world conquest, people have a surprisingly small view.
While this is true, it is justified by the closed space (and other werid stuff) being centred in Haruhi. She is the one creating then, so it is normal having then nearby. Of course 'God' being a japanese girl of all people in the world is convinient, but not really improbable.

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Exept they are far from Tokyo.
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Old 2010-02-21, 16:23   Link #97
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Exept they are far from Tokyo.
Same island, at least.
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... well at least it's consistent...
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Old 2010-02-22, 23:45   Link #98
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Maybe hes not telling the truth about the number of espers. Or the number of actual espers is kept secret from him by the organisation higher ups.
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Old 2010-02-22, 23:57   Link #99
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He had three years of experience at the time he made that statement, so I'm sure he'd know if there were more than ten.
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... well at least it's consistent...
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Old 2010-02-23, 00:06   Link #100
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Itsuki is probably my favorite Haruhi character. I loved is dry humor. So, Itsuki's organization views Haruhi as a god that can make the supernatural into reality just by wishing for it, right? I'm sorry for the noobish question, but I marathoned through the first and second season, so I kind of have a hard time telling Mikuru's, Yuki's, and Itsuki's explanation of Haruhi apart...
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