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Old 2010-02-23, 00:33   Link #101
Kogetsu Shirogane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingman32x View Post
Itsuki is probably my favorite Haruhi character. I loved is dry humor. So, Itsuki's organization views Haruhi as a god that can make the supernatural into reality just by wishing for it, right? I'm sorry for the noobish question, but I marathoned through the first and second season, so I kind of have a hard time telling Mikuru's, Yuki's, and Itsuki's explanation of Haruhi apart...
Some members of the Organization supposedly believe that. Koizumi doesn't seem to, however.
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... well at least it's consistent...
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Old 2010-02-23, 06:51   Link #102
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All of then still belive she can make wish come true, tough, and is why she is so important. IT is just that some don't believe she is really 'God', just that she has god-like powers (in the end, it is the same thing for them). Also, keep in mind it is 'God' as in 'Creator', not as 'omnipotent/scient being'.
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Old 2010-02-23, 10:28   Link #103
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Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane View Post
He had three years of experience at the time he made that statement, so I'm sure he'd know if there were more than ten.
He says that there were about ten espers, and they are all belong to the organisation, but...

Spoiler for later novel:


So, there should be more espers than Koizumi knows or he deliberately didnt tell Kyon about that
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Old 2010-02-23, 10:34   Link #104
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I've got a burning question in my mind about Koizumi (oh yes he is mysterious). In the animation of Sigh IV,

Spoiler for Sigh IV Koizumi:


This just seems to me that other than his Closed Space powers, he has enhanced intellect, speed, senses and strength. Then again, probably Kyon is just weak.

Last edited by edkedkedk; 2010-02-23 at 10:47. Reason: Because Koizumi is too fast for you
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Old 2010-02-23, 10:43   Link #105
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Originally Posted by edkedkedk View Post
I've got a burning question in my mind about Koizumi (oh yes he is mysterious). In the animation of Sigh IV,

Spoiler for Sigh IV Koizumi:


This just seems to me that other than his Closed Space powers, he has enhanced intellect, senses and strength. Then again, probably Kyon is just weak.
You may forgot the speed though edkedkedk
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Old 2010-02-23, 10:57   Link #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darksassin View Post
He says that there were about ten espers, and they are all belong to the organisation, but...

Spoiler for later novel:


So, there should be more espers than Koizumi knows or he deliberately didnt tell Kyon about that
By 'espers' he was probably meaning people with the same powers (or very similar ones) as him.

Spoiler for Future Stuff:


Quote:
Originally Posted by edkedkedk View Post
I've got a burning question in my mind about Koizumi (oh yes he is mysterious). In the animation of Sigh IV,

Spoiler for Sigh IV Koizumi:


This just seems to me that other than his Closed Space powers, he has enhanced intellect, senses and strength. Then again, probably Kyon is just weak.
Well, I would have to reread this scene no know for sure, but I always suspected Itsuki was deliberadly hidding some powers from Kyon. For one thing he seens to be able to 'sense' super natural stuff, but he never explicitly told Kyon about that.
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Old 2010-02-23, 10:58   Link #107
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Haruhi teleported him behind Kyon in self-defense. Only explanation I can think of.
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... well at least it's consistent...
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Old 2010-02-23, 11:00   Link #108
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I believe Tsuruya would notice something like that. But, then again, it is Tsuruya, she could just not have cared.
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Old 2010-02-23, 11:03   Link #109
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Well, I would have to reread this scene no know for sure, but I always suspected Itsuki was deliberadly hidding some powers from Kyon. For one thing he seens to be able to 'sense' super natural stuff, but he never explicitly told Kyon about that.
During the baseball game, after they almost lose, all three react weirdly, I know Nagato could sense dimensional change, maybe Itsuki can detect close space or other supernatural stuff, but what about Mikuru?
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Old 2010-02-23, 11:06   Link #110
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Originally Posted by darksassin View Post
During the baseball game, after they almost lose, all three react weirdly, I know Nagato could sense dimensional change, maybe Itsuki can detect close space or other supernatural stuff, but what about Mikuru?
Seh received a mensage from her bosses. We never knwe exactly how she comunicated (and it is a secret, since she have to hide to do it), but it seens to be a handy thing, as she seens to be always with it. Some suspect it is an implant of some kind.
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Old 2010-02-23, 11:20   Link #111
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Originally Posted by Heatth View Post
Well, I would have to reread this scene no know for sure, but I always suspected Itsuki was deliberadly hidding some powers from Kyon. For one thing he seens to be able to 'sense' super natural stuff, but he never explicitly told Kyon about that.

I kind of had that feeling, too. Even though he was the most open with Kyon (out of himself, Yuki, and Mikuru) in terms of information about his organization and what he could do, I always felt he held back some information about his abilities. Idk about the Light Novel, but in the anime we see him use his powers once, and even then it was for a short period of time and was shown from a far away angle. So I too think he has some abilities hidden in the dark that nobody knows about.
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Old 2010-02-23, 11:28   Link #112
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Originally Posted by wingman32x View Post
Even though he was the most open with Kyon (out of himself, Yuki, and Mikuru) in terms of information about his organization and what he could do, I always felt he held back some information about his abilities.
This is the main reason, for me. Since he is the only one telling things, he can choose how he is going to tell them. Not that I believe he is flat out lieing, but he certanly speak in th way more convenient to him. The best exemple of it is Sighs, as usual we just believe in what he says, but, this time, we have both Mikuru and Yuki explicitly telling they think what he says is bullshit.

Spoiler for Snow Mountain:


Of course, I don't remember any actual exemple when he was proven to be lieing or holding things from Kyon (insted of ben, maybe, just mistaken).

In any case, I believe people should give Itsuki less credit them most give. Even if do not intent to lie, he might very well be completely wrong. Just because he is the one doing exposition don't mean that this exposition is correct, at it was pointed once in the novel/anime.

Spoiler for Book 9:
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Old 2010-02-23, 12:40   Link #113
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... Did you miss the fact that Nagato also said that neither her nor Mikuru should be completely trusted? The point of those scenes wasn't to say Koizumi's a liar, it was to point out the fact that the three groups completely disagree with one another.
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... well at least it's consistent...
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Old 2010-02-23, 16:18   Link #114
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When I ever said the oposite? The point of this scene is mostly to tell us Itsuki is not that trustable... neither is Yuki or Mikuru. I never said you should trust one of then, just you shouldn't trust him.

Anyway, this scene mostly effect Itsuki, since, again, is pratically the only one who explain things (without too much technobable, at last). However, I still feel that most of the fans still takes what he says as gospel true.
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Old 2010-02-23, 19:52   Link #115
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Originally Posted by Heatth View Post
When I ever said the oposite? The point of this scene is mostly to tell us Itsuki is not that trustable... neither is Yuki or Mikuru. I never said you should trust one of then, just you shouldn't trust him.

Anyway, this scene mostly effect Itsuki, since, again, is pratically the only one who explain things (without too much technobable, at last). However, I still feel that most of the fans still takes what he says as gospel true.
Well, to be honest, when have we reason to doubt Koizumi? Often his explanations make as much sense as anything else, or are the only clues we have, so we may as well go with what he says until proven otherwise.

Frankly, I'm somewhat sceptical of his stories, but willing to accept them as plausible and most likely to be true, because usually there isn't much reason to disbelieve him. And when there is, I am ready to reevaluate what I think.
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Old 2010-02-23, 20:03   Link #116
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Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane View Post
The point of those scenes wasn't to say Koizumi's a liar, it was to point out the fact that the three groups completely disagree with one another.
But they do have at least similar conclusions?
Yeah, I never trusted that Mikuru kid.
I believed Koizumi, because he's so convincing. But, he's also a good actor.
He could be bullshitting us
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Old 2010-02-23, 20:12   Link #117
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Originally Posted by AmyElizzabeth View Post
But they do have at least similar conclusions?
Yeah, I never trusted that Mikuru kid.
I believed Koizumi, because he's so convincing. But, he's also a good actor.
He could be bullshitting us
Now now, would the guy in my avatar do that?

Seriously, I agree with what Yuki said as the conclusion to that whole set of scenes: There's no way for Kyon to be able to tell what the truth is, so there's no real way to fully trust any of the ITDE, Future-people, or Agency.

Spoiler:


Personally, I think Koizumi's just being used as a plot-detailer since Yuki's meant to not be talkative and part of Mikuru's charm is her inability to know things that are commonplace in the "past." That's the only reason I trust him as much as I do with certain things, but not wholeheartedly, since he's proven himself to lie about the plot.
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Old 2010-02-24, 00:44   Link #118
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Originally Posted by keri View Post
Well, to be honest, when have we reason to doubt Koizumi? Often his explanations make as much sense as anything else, or are the only clues we have, so we may as well go with what he says until proven otherwise.
In Sighs we have a reason to doubt Koizumi. Not saying he is deliberating lieing, but that not mean he is 100% trustable. He can use his position to gave the most convenient explanation, even if he do not do that consiously (I believe it is thinking to hight of him, but that is just opinion).

Spoiler for The Surprise of:


Quote:
Originally Posted by keri View Post
Frankly, I'm somewhat sceptical of his stories, but willing to accept them as plausible and most likely to be true, because usually there isn't much reason to disbelieve him. And when there is, I am ready to reevaluate what I think.
We usually have to trust Koizumi because he gave the only explanation. We can't just ignore it, or we wouldn't have a clue of what is going on. Just pointing that we might want to see it for nwe angles

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmyElizzabeth View Post
But they do have at least similar conclusions?
The don't have similar conclusions, they is pretty much the oposite (the World is isn danger(Koizumi) vs the World itself is never in danger (Nagato) vs The World
can't be in danger (Asahina)). At last one of then need to be wrong, that person can be Itsuki. Before this scene we never really have any reason to think the explanation Itsuki gave in Melancholy was wrong. Nowe we have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmyElizzabeth View Post
Yeah, I never trusted that Mikuru kid.
I believed Koizumi, because he's so convincing. But, he's also a good actor.
He could be bullshitting us
Well, yeah. I believe it is how it went to most of us. It is also one of the main reasons I don't trust Koizumi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ultimatemegax View Post
Now now, would the guy in my avatar do that?
Wouldn't him?

Seriously, I agree with what Yuki said as the conclusion to that whole set of scenes: There's no way for Kyon to be able to tell what the truth is, so there's no real way to fully trust any of the ITDE, Future-people, or Agency.

Spoiler:
[/quote]

You have a point he. However, I would say Itsuki's lie is pretty much inocent, and Yuki's may be more a mistake then a lie. Yeah, I don't trus Mikuru either.

In any case, the most trustable person in the Brigade is Haruhi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ultimatemegax View Post
Personally, I think Koizumi's just being used as a plot-detailer since Yuki's meant to not be talkative and part of Mikuru's charm is her inability to know things that are commonplace in the "past." That's the only reason I trust him as much as I do with certain things, but not wholeheartedly, since he's proven himself to lie about the plot.
I believe you are mostly correct.

Also, many Koizumi's explanation are, by his own adimission, just theories (many of then ecen sound it is being made on spot). Even for Itsuki, they are not meant to be taken as true ("Haruhi is God" is the prime exemple). However, Itsuki's theory is good for Kyon, and us, readers, because it provide some explanation.

I am not telling Itsuki has an evil plan or something (tough it is a possibility), just that he is not the guardian of truth.
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Old 2010-02-24, 03:07   Link #119
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In any case, the most trustable person in the Brigade is Haruhi.
She may be a criminal, but at least she's an honest one. Right?
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... well at least it's consistent...
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Old 2010-02-24, 03:56   Link #120
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One thing to keep in mind is that the only thing Itsuki has really revealed about himself is that his entire personality is fabricated. How can you trust anything he says? You can't even trust that he's always lying. He's a walking, (close) talking, smiling "liar paradox".
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