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Old 2010-02-24, 09:24   Link #121
edkedkedk
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Originally Posted by quigonkenny View Post
One thing to keep in mind is that the only thing Itsuki has really revealed about himself is that his entire personality is fabricated. How can you trust anything he says? You can't even trust that he's always lying. He's a walking, (close) talking, smiling "liar paradox".
You know something's wrong when the only truthful thing a person tells you about himself is that his personality is a lie
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Old 2010-02-24, 09:51   Link #122
wingman32x
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Originally Posted by quigonkenny View Post
One thing to keep in mind is that the only thing Itsuki has really revealed about himself is that his entire personality is fabricated. How can you trust anything he says? You can't even trust that he's always lying. He's a walking, (close) talking, smiling "liar paradox".
Can somebody tell me when Itsuki said this? It's not that I doubt it, it's just that I don't remember when he said it.
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Old 2010-02-24, 10:32   Link #123
Tabasco
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Unless he's lying about the lie, in which case he really is like this normally but is trying to throw off Kyon for his own purposes...ok, let's stop this here, this way lies madness.

You know, I don't envy Kyon a bit in all this. Sure he's surrounded by cute girls, two of whom have gone to extraordinary lengths to prove their attraction to him, but balanced against that you have a web of lies, deceit, and mystery wrapped around him and the others to do a spy novel proud. Oh, and by the way, mess up whatever unfathomable choice you have to make next, and the universe as you know it has a strong chance of going kablooie. And those people with you whom you're not sure you can trust? They're the key to solving the crisis of the week. Fun times.
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Old 2010-02-24, 11:46   Link #124
Kogetsu Shirogane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tabasco View Post
Unless he's lying about the lie, in which case he really is like this normally but is trying to throw off Kyon for his own purposes...
I don't know where the lies end and the truth begins...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tabasco View Post
You know, I don't envy Kyon a bit in all this. Sure he's surrounded by cute girls, two of whom have gone to extraordinary lengths to prove their attraction to him, but balanced against that you have a web of lies, deceit, and mystery wrapped around him and the others to do a spy novel proud. Oh, and by the way, mess up whatever unfathomable choice you have to make next, and the universe as you know it has a strong chance of going kablooie. And those people with you whom you're not sure you can trust? They're the key to solving the crisis of the week. Fun times.
Y'know... if you were to start the description at "a web of lies," someone would be expecting an entirely different series out of this.
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... well at least it's consistent...
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Old 2010-02-24, 11:51   Link #125
edkedkedk
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Originally Posted by Tabasco View Post
Unless he's lying about the lie, in which case he really is like this normally but is trying to throw off Kyon for his own purposes...ok, let's stop this here, this way lies madness.

You know, I don't envy Kyon a bit in all this. Sure he's surrounded by cute girls, two of whom have gone to extraordinary lengths to prove their attraction to him, but balanced against that you have a web of lies, deceit, and mystery wrapped around him and the others to do a spy novel proud. Oh, and by the way, mess up whatever unfathomable choice you have to make next, and the universe as you know it has a strong chance of going kablooie. And those people with you whom you're not sure you can trust? They're the key to solving the crisis of the week. Fun times.
Well there has to be downside to being the Most Important Person in the Universe

I always wondered though, if one day Haruhi gives up on Kyon and never cares about him anymore, will the SOS Brigade still be as loyal to Kyon as they are now? After all, their mission objective is Haruhi, not Kyon. All this attention he's getting is a result of Haruhi choosing him specifically; what if he lost that privilege? Will Mikuru still fawn over him? Will Yuki still protect him and listen to his words? More importantly for this thread, will Koizumi still be his friend?

Back to Koizumi, I think part of what makes him so interesting is his way of speaking. Technically, what he says isn't a lie, yet he withholds part of it as he sees fit. There is no reason at all for Koizumi to trust in the SOS Brigade; he is a man on a mission, and while he says on more than one occasion he enjoys the company of Haruhi and Kyon, he never refers to them as friends (correct me if I'm wrong). My viewpoint of Koizumi changed when in Snowy Mountain

Spoiler for Snowy Mountain Koizumi:


For me, that was the point he became more human and less of an enigma. Of course, people may doubt the truth of his words, but Koizumi's status really evolves throughout the novels. Kyon relies on him because he can give a understandable and human viewpoint of things despite Kyon's apparent loathing of Koizumi. You can definitely trust Koizumi's words; just that what he gives may not be the whole truth, keeping an element of surprise if he needs it. Just like I speculated, Koizumi revealed his Closed Space esper powers; what he doesn't tell others are the enhanced powers he presumably has. He springs that element of surprise on Kyon in Sigh, preventing things from getting further complicated. Heck, he even loses his smile there and then.

I agree, Mikuru is the least trustworthy of the SOS Brigade. There is a darker side to each and every member of the SOS Brigade, behind the smiles and fun they have. It's awesome to explore theses sides because the tension is definitely there, yet it's gelled together by a common goal; Haruhi.
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Old 2010-02-24, 12:38   Link #126
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I wonder how much of this Mikuru animosity is due to actual story hints and events (news flash: there aren't any), and how much is due to the fact that she's easily both the least popular shipping target and the one Kyon is most overtly attracted to.
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Old 2010-02-24, 14:06   Link #127
Kogetsu Shirogane
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In my case... it's because her entire purpose seems to be "Thing for Kyon to drool over" most of the time. Has nothing to do with shipping, she just really doesn't have any purpose in most stories.
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... well at least it's consistent...
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Old 2010-02-24, 17:47   Link #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane View Post
She may be a criminal, but at least she's an honest one. Right?
Precisely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by quigonkenny View Post
One thing to keep in mind is that the only thing Itsuki has really revealed about himself is that his entire personality is fabricated. How can you trust anything he says? You can't even trust that he's always lying. He's a walking, (close) talking, smiling "liar paradox".
Well, he hadn't said his entire personality is fabricated, just that he has to act in front of Haruhi , unlike Mikuru or Yuki.

The first underlined part can mean Itsuki is being himself when Haruhi is not around. I ca believe that, his personality change, he is more obviously a fake when dealing with Haruhi (being basicaly a 'yes man'). Of course, if he thinks there is need to act in front of Haruhi, he might think as well he needs to act in front of Kyon. Tough I would point he is more inclined to drop this forced smile when Haruhi is not nearby.

The second part is more interesting. This would mean Koizumi do not believe Mikuru is acting. This contradict what he said earlier (that Mikuru can be just faking), but I doubt he has any reason to lie here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingman32x View Post
Can somebody tell me when Itsuki said this? It's not that I doubt it, it's just that I don't remember when he said it.
Vol6, Charmed at First Sigh,m I believe. Btw, if someone could post here the actual quote it would be good. I am speaking from my memories alone and I can be completely wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by edkedkedk View Post
I always wondered though, if one day Haruhi gives up on Kyon and never cares about him anymore, will the SOS Brigade still be as loyal to Kyon as they are now? After all, their mission objective is Haruhi, not Kyon. All this attention he's getting is a result of Haruhi choosing him specifically; what if he lost that privilege? Will Mikuru still fawn over him? Will Yuki still protect him and listen to his words? More importantly for this thread, will Koizumi still be his friend?
For what we can see from latter novels, I am inclined to believe Yuki would still stay by Kyon's side. The same for Mikuru ,if she is really just being herself, tough not as loyal as Yuki, she would just stuk with Haruhi, obeying her superiors orders, but trying to see Kyon from time to time (if she really likes him). For Itsuki... I believe he would just cortesly ignore Kyon. Of course, this is my interpretation. In any case, Koizumi needs to stay by Haruhi's side at any cost. For all he knows, this is a life or death matter. Even if his friendship with Kyon is genuine, between the world salvation and a friend he would choice the world salvation.

Of couser, this assuming no organization finds Kyon special by any means beyond being 'chosen by Haruhi'. There are many theories agains such interpretation (even disconsidering the ones that say "Kyon is the real 'God'). This is particularly suspicious for the Time-Travelers. They seens to always have something to Kyon do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by edkedkedk View Post
Back to Koizumi, I think part of what makes him so interesting is his way of speaking. Technically, what he says isn't a lie, yet he withholds part of it as he sees fit. There is no reason at all for Koizumi to trust in the SOS Brigade; he is a man on a mission, and while he says on more than one occasion he enjoys the company of Haruhi and Kyon, he never refers to them as friends (correct me if I'm wrong).
I agree with you until this part. Snow Montain don't really changed my views. Itsuki has yet to proove his words with action.

Again, I don't think he (or the Agency) has some malevous plan of any kind. I just believe they are far to concerned with the world salvation to do anything else. I can believe he thinks Kyon as a friend, just that he wouldn't choose him over the world.

Spoiler for SMS:
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Old 2010-02-26, 15:23   Link #129
darksassin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingman32x View Post
Can somebody tell me when Itsuki said this? It's not that I doubt it, it's just that I don't remember when he said it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heatth View Post
Vol6, Charmed at First Sigh,m I believe. Btw, if someone could post here the actual quote it would be good. I am speaking from my memories alone and I can be completely wrong.

I believe this is the part you are talking writing about

Spoiler for novel 6-Charmed at the first sight:
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Old 2013-04-07, 09:10   Link #130
jasper222
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As of the latest novel, is it safe to say Koizumi has changed for the better? Like, he's not going to put up much of a facade in front of Kyon and the others at least?
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Old 2013-04-12, 13:10   Link #131
YukiNagato
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In my case... it's because her entire purpose seems to be "Thing for Kyon to drool over" most of the time. Has nothing to do with shipping, she just really doesn't have any purpose in most stories.
Pretty much this. She's only important in certain cases but most of the time she's just kinda there.
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