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Old 2009-10-18, 01:55   Link #1981
Rising Dragon
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That's my point though: knowing your enemy's moves means nothing if they can overpower you regardless, which the Lancelot Albion did to the Galahad. All I'm saying is that its not infallible; it CAN be conquered.

As for the sword fight, that was simply Bismarck's natural skill with a sword. His Geass did not help him in the fight; he seems to have attained the second level of his Geass, meaning its permanent. So he has his eye closed so he can't use it unless he needs to use it. Bismarck kept his eye sealed, so his victory over Suzaku was all his own.
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Old 2009-10-18, 02:06   Link #1982
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My point is: That geass is a helpful tool for battle like any other geass. Every geass has its ups and downs and can be defeated. I'm not trying to say that geass makes a person invincible but has an incredible advantage. I bet if Bismarck had a faster Knightmare he would have given Suzaku for a run for his money.

Sworld fight: Yes, you're right. It was Bismarck skill that beat Suzaku. I just haven't seen that scene for a while. I just remembered that he only showed his eye was glowing but not fully opened. If Bismarck would have used his geass then Suzaku totally would have been owned.

Last edited by Knightrunner; 2009-10-18 at 09:55.
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Old 2009-10-18, 12:07   Link #1983
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I know I'm a bit late, but I have to remind everyone that the thing about Lelouch truly considering Rolo his brother is confirmed by word of God. He wasn't just lying out of pity.
There's also the Hikari story, where Lelouch imagines Rolo as his brother together with Nunnally. I know some people don't consider Talkin' Rebellion canon, but it's included in The Complete, which seems more official than other books to me... And also it has a sort of lulushirley ending so... Shirley fans (myself included) would prefer to consider it canon xD

Anyway, since I love both Shirley and Rolo so much, I blame her death on the circumstances. Everybody accuses Rolo of killing her out of jealousy, but nobody seems to remember that it was Lelouch's manipulation that made that jealousy grow so intense to begin with. I don't think Rolo would have seen Shirley as a threat had Lelouch not gone "I LOVE YOU NUNNALLY" in front of him (while Rolo was stopping his heart for his sake, too! And he doesn't even receive any thanks either), then say Nunnally's name during his sleep, try to get her back, choose just the opposite when Rolo begs him to stop being Zero, go to China and leave Rolo alone, then leave him alone again thanks to Sayoko's awesome 6 months-long list of dates schedule (with only 3 hours to sleep I doubt he had any time left to spend with Rolo), etc.

Rolo must have been very desperately craving for Lelouch's attention at the time Turn 13 took place, and...

I know, Rolo could have accepted Nunnally as a sister, but Lelouch ignoring him so much after around Turn 5 made it clear to him that he was going to be abandoned when Nunnally came back. He states it on another story from Talkin' Rebellion, that he's afraid about what might happen to him if Nunnally ever came back.

So yeah, I think Rolo, Lelouch and the Cult should share the blame among the three... plus the staff to for treating Shirley like she doesn't even deserve to appear on the character chart ŽA`;; At least she got a bigger role than Rolo on the Zero Requiem Special Edition. Still, see? Rolo was there too as the other most important trigger to Lelouch's actions. Sunrise wants us to like Shirley and Rolo both so... let's not fight with each other

*forgive my bad English*

Last edited by aya_kari; 2009-10-19 at 00:04.
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Old 2009-10-18, 12:13   Link #1984
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@aya_kari:
Aw!
I totally agree.
And thanks for the additional information. *-* I had totally forgotten about that voice actor thing - it seems I'm a horrible fangirl to every character but Clovis. xD
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Old 2009-10-20, 02:43   Link #1985
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I think Rolo is one of the characters we can discuss, without having to many different opinions. He was an orphan, who did not have anybody to look up to. Somehow he got his geass, and instead of being a lab rat, he became an assassin. His life wasn't like James Bond, or Jason Bourne, but rather a hollow, empty existence, from one mission to another. We are never show what his first mission was, or how he overcame his emotions, but we know that after killing countless amount of people, it meant nothing to him. Kind of like killing an ant, as you don't feel bad. It was a usual routine for him.

When Lelouch saved his life, he realized that there was more to life. Someone to look up to, and some one to protect. A very smart move by Lelouch, Rolo became close to him, and helped him. He found a brother in Lelouch; someone he could connect to.

Thus, when Shirley came in his path, he did the obvious, which by then he was used to doing. Killing.
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Old 2009-10-21, 19:09   Link #1986
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I think Rolo is one of the characters we can discuss, without having to many different opinions. He was an orphan, who did not have anybody to look up to. Somehow he got his geass, and instead of being a lab rat, he became an assassin. His life wasn't like James Bond, or Jason Bourne, but rather a hollow, empty existence, from one mission to another. We are never show what his first mission was, or how he overcame his emotions, but we know that after killing countless amount of people, it meant nothing to him. Kind of like killing an ant, as you don't feel bad. It was a usual routine for him.

When Lelouch saved his life, he realized that there was more to life. Someone to look up to, and some one to protect. A very smart move by Lelouch, Rolo became close to him, and helped him. He found a brother in Lelouch; someone he could connect to.

Thus, when Shirley came in his path, he did the obvious, which by then he was used to doing. Killing.
Rolo's another really interesting character for me, and yet another one I can't help but like and dislike at the same time. Rolo's help is invaluable to Lelouch at times, not least when he sacrifices himself to save him, but he also causes more trouble than most of the other characters do combined. It's quite touching though how much Lelouch meant to him, and how far he was willing to go to protect him, just from the little love he was shown by him.
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Old 2009-10-22, 00:54   Link #1987
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Originally Posted by gaffer7 View Post
Rolo's another really interesting character for me, and yet another one I can't help but like and dislike at the same time. Rolo's help is invaluable to Lelouch at times, not least when he sacrifices himself to save him, but he also causes more trouble than most of the other characters do combined. It's quite touching though how much Lelouch meant to him, and how far he was willing to go to protect him, just from the little love he was shown by him.
Rolo is also somemoe, certain people can relate to. Being pushed over in life by others, not being very helpful, even when he was trying, lack of a destination in life. He must have really felt hollow.
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Old 2009-10-22, 01:05   Link #1988
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Rolo is also somemoe, certain people can relate to. Being pushed over in life by others, not being very helpful, even when he was trying, lack of a destination in life. He must have really felt hollow.
I can believe he did, although I'm not sure he was aware of it until Lelouch became his brother. To be shown a life apart from fighting and assassinations must have been an enlightening experience for him.
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Old 2009-12-06, 22:05   Link #1989
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Poor Rolo. If anything, he should be resurrected in some way or another. Maybe he did not die, as his pacemaker (given to him by the secret services - Mr. Bond) was able to revive him till the next Code Geass, where he becomes the protagonist, taking revenge on Suzaku.
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Old 2010-02-26, 09:01   Link #1990
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I absolutely love Rolo he has a sweet caring personality when it comes to Lelouch. All he wanted was a family to call his own and he had that for a little while until Lelouch regained his memories. I also love the Rolo/Lelouch paring I think its cute.
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Old 2010-02-26, 10:31   Link #1991
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I absolutely love Rolo he has a sweet caring personality when it comes to Lelouch. All he wanted was a family to call his own and he had that for a little while until Lelouch regained his memories. I also love the Rolo/Lelouch paring I think its cute.
Oh, a Rolo and a shounen-ai fan!
Welcome! *grins*

Yes, Rolo is adorable.
I liked him from the first moment, although (or probably because) it became obvious pretty quickly that he had some serious issues.
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Old 2010-02-26, 14:12   Link #1992
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Were it up to me, he would've died in a pool of blood, just like his most memorable victim. But instead, he'd be left alone, no one in his final moments.
Well, I was never for "punishing for the sake of punishing", so I can't relate to that.

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He was a convenience for the writers: He was a vicious, paranoid little murderer, they could easily make him kill off several characters without much effort.
I could claim that every single character was a convenience for the writers. It doesn't change the fact that many of them are popular.

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Bobo is a name I don't give out of affection, but out of spitefulness. How come he got away with so much, instead simply being a philanthropist driven by a strong 'attachment' to Lelouch.

Oh yes, he is cute. But does that measure the sharpness of the gulliotine? No. A gulliotine is too quick, and so is a heart failure.
Yes, Rolo is cute.
So what? I can like characters for whatever reasons I want, and I actually love a lot more about Rolo than just his pretty face.
Same with Clovis, only that in this case, I'm seriously obsessed.

Quote:
No.. maybe i'm being too hard on him, afterall... he could've been a genuinely good person if he wasn't tainted by V.V. and it's geass cult.
Well, you could say something like that about even Charles and V.V., but yeah, Rolo had issues, he was still a kid, and he spent his earliest childhood as a tool, killing when and whom he was told to.
Had he stood in front of a real life court, he'd probably just have been sent to therapy.
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Old 2010-02-26, 15:23   Link #1993
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Were it up to me, he would've died in a pool of blood, just like his most memorable victim. But instead, he'd be left alone, no one in his final moments.

He was a convenience for the writers: He was a vicious, paranoid little murderer, they could easily make him kill off several characters without much effort.

Bobo is a name I don't give out of affection, but out of spitefulness. How come he got away with so much, instead simply being a philanthropist driven by a strong 'attachment' to Lelouch.

Oh yes, he is cute. But does that measure the sharpness of the gulliotine? No. A gulliotine is too quick, and so is a heart failure.

No.. maybe i'm being too hard on him, afterall... he could've been a genuinely good person if he wasn't tainted by V.V. and it's geass cult.
That's the thing, that despite having been forced to kill countless times since he was 6 years old, something which would have probably been enough for anyone to turn completely unemotional and hopeless about the meaning of being alive, he still shows that his true nature is that of an extremely sensitive boy who is moved by each small gesture of kindness that he receives. He isn't just posessive of Lelouch ala Tamama, he feels incredibly grateful to him and is always worried about doing his best to prove himself worthy of his affection; he constantly offered him his support after Lelouch promised he would still consider Rolo his brother, he doesn't just take it for granted that he deserves to own Lelouch. But that's why he's likewise really scared of losing him, especially since Lelouch was disrespectful enough to show too many signs that he actually only cared about Nunnally right in front of Rolo.

Of course it was wrong for Rolo to kill Shirley, but you can't just minimize the reasons behind this act and regard his character as a mere ruthless paranoid murderer: he spends the whole series desperately struggling to find his right place and longing for that love he was given for an ephemeral single year which he can't just forget and abandon so easily. The way he talks about Lelouch proving himself so capable of contemplating his own feelings is heart-breaking for some of us (with lines such as "did I long for a smile this much?", "I didn't want to lose... you, the first family I had ever had", "thank you, brother, for giving me, who was empty, the light", "my brother is the kindest in the world", "I thought that as long as the two of us would stay together forever that would mean the eternal happiness", and so on, and every single word from the lyrics of Boku wa, tori ni naru. Sure this is all really cheesy, but for someone who's been raised as an assassin to manage to sound cheesy, you really feel the state of melancholy he must be going through, and all the pain he's holding back), and that in spite of having always being ordered what to do he is able to choose the least comfortable path of starting to make his own decisions shows that he had a really strong desire to break free from that identity as a tool that others had forced onto him.

And the convenience for the writers thing... Well, you seriously haven't seen how much the staff genuinely love Rolo. He's featured everywhere, and you only have to visit the Banjou no Geass Gekijou blog to see that the creators were constantly posting comments about him as though he were the protagonist or something. The audio commentaries, interviews and tidbits I've been able to gather since R2 began make it clear that he isn't just a character introduced to expand the cast for the second season, he's fully established himself into the list of main characters, being elaborated on a lot through extras as well.

I don't ask those who hate him to stop doing so because each has their own opinion and I know I personally thought I would be unable to forgive him anymore after Turn 13 aired, but please, it's just not fair to discredit his existence like that.
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Old 2010-02-26, 15:31   Link #1994
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Omg, may I hug you?
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Old 2010-02-26, 15:39   Link #1995
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Originally Posted by aya_kari View Post
Of course it was wrong for Rolo to kill Shirley, but you can't just minimize the reasons behind this act and regard his character as a mere ruthless paranoid murderer: he spends the whole series desperately struggling to find his right place and longing for that love he was given for an ephemeral single year which he can't just forget and abandon so easily. The way he talks about Lelouch proving himself so capable of contemplating his own feelings is heart-breaking for some of us (with lines such as "did I long for a smile this much?", "I didn't want to lose... you, the first family I had ever had", "thank you, brother, for giving me, who was empty, the light", "my brother is the kindest in the world", "I thought that as long as the two of us would stay together forever that would mean the eternal happiness", and so on, and every single word from the lyrics of Boku wa, tori ni naru. Sure this is all really cheesy, but for someone who's been raised as an assassin to manage to sound cheesy, you really feel the state of melancholy he must be going through, and all the pain he's holding back), and that in spite of having always being ordered what to do he is able to choose the least comfortable path of starting to make his own decisions shows that he had a really strong desire to break free from that identity as a tool that others had forced onto him.
sorry charlie, no sale
he murders Shirley because she mentions that she wants to help Protect Lelouch and help him get Nunnaly back, and then promptly informs Lelouch "she wanted to kill you, so i killed her to save you"
and later on plans to do the same to Nunnaly

i know that he has his reasons and excuses
but i cant bring myself to care about them
the fact that he lies to Lelouch saying Shirley wanted to HURT HIM and that he (Rolo) SAVED him from her is all i really need to know
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Old 2010-02-26, 15:47   Link #1996
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-He killed Shirley, under the idea of her wanting to meet Lelouch to kill him. Paranoid in my opinion. Since he could easily use his geass to stop her and incapicitate her. He didn't think this through, and simply went with the 'kill' option.

This may be what he wanted to do, or was he was taught to do. He seemed somewhat joyous to know she was dead, in my opinion.
No, this isn't why he killed Shirley. That was the excuse he gave Lelouch for killing her. Shirley wanted to reunite Lelouch with Nunnally--that's why he killed her. At that point, someone who knew of Lelouch's connection to Nunnally and wanting to bring the two together was a threat to Rolo, and he killed her for it.
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Old 2010-02-26, 15:48   Link #1997
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i know that he has his reasons and excuses
but i cant bring myself to care about them
the fact that he lies to Lelouch saying Shirley wanted to HURT HIM and that he (Rolo) SAVED him from her is all i really need to know
What was he supposed to say?
"Sorry, she brought up Nunnally"? And maybe add, "Whom I'd kill any time to have you for myself"?

It's partly Lelouch's fault that Rolo felt threatened to this extent in the first place. The boy was scared to lose the only thing he ever treasured, so much that he'd delude himself into thinking that Lelouch would be all his if he killed Nunnally (rather than jump off the next cliff). Of course he didn't tell the truth.

Edit:

@Arbitres:
Please don't snap at people for politely correcting you when you're wrong. (Or at least, it sounded very much like snapping to me. If you didn't mean it that way, I apologize.)
This is a forum, in which you discuss things. And sometimes it gets a bit heated, yeah, but that wasn't the case here.
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Old 2010-02-26, 15:52   Link #1998
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What was he supposed to say?
"Sorry, she brought up Nunnally"? And maybe add, "Whom I'd kill any time to have you for myself"?

It's partly Lelouch's fault that Rolo felt threatened to this extent in the first place. The boy was scared to lose the only thing he ever treasured, so much that he'd delude himself into thinking that Lelouch would be all his if he killed Nunnally (rather than jump off the next cliff). Of course he didn't tell the truth.
you asked what i would have preferred him to say
how about "it wasn't me"
"she was that way when i got here"
"OMG what happened to sheirly"

it wouldn't have made his ACTIONS any less severe
but it would have at least make him less of a horrible creep

the fact that he LIED about murdering her shows that he KNEW Lelouch wouldn't agree to it
he needed to come up with an excuse for why he murdered her, because his REAL reason is one that is unacceptable
and the fact that his excuse for it was a way to try and get CREDIT for it (he "saved" him) was even worse
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Old 2010-02-26, 15:59   Link #1999
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you asked what i would have preferred him to say
how about "it wasn't me"
"she was that way when i got here"
"OMG what happened to sheirly"

it wouldn't have made his ACTIONS any less severe
but it would have at least make him less of a horrible creep

the fact that he LIED about murdering her shows that he KNEW Lelouch wouldn't agree to it
he needed to come up with an excuse for why he murdered her, because his REAL reason is one that is unacceptable
and the fact that his excuse for it was a way to try and get CREDIT for it (he "saved" him) was even worse
Actually, I think it mostly showed that he has some serious issues. It was a blatant lie - had he blamed it on someone else, it might have worked, or at the very least, he should have made sure she was actually dead. But Lelouch held her in his arms when she died, clearly mourned her death, and still it didn't occur to Rolo that his brother could be angry at him for what he had done.
To Rolo, killing is natural - it's not something he'd need to blame on someone else, especially since he doesn't truly understand the concept of "friendship". The only thing he could expect Lelouch to believe is that he thought she might be a threat, but that he didn't "save" him was fairly obvious.
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Old 2010-02-26, 16:30   Link #2000
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Lelouch said to Rolo, twice, that he "shouldn't behave that way" in response to Rolo suggesting killing someone who might get in the way, and the second time involved Suzaku.

And Lelouch hadn't said anything to the effect of wanting Nunnally over Rolo to Rolo's face. Rolo was simply that possessive. It just so happened that their motives clashed with one another, to the point where it appeared that Rolo was on to Lelouch.
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