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Old 2010-02-26, 13:17   Link #101
Ice Block
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
he can't fly. He can probably float for a couple of seconds but flying would not happen. If he tampers with the gravity on the earth that's currently acting upon himself that keeps him from soaring in the space. Then the next thing we see off him will be floating in space.
I beg to differ:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Block View Post
Basic
  • Flight -> g=0, direction and velocity is free to be modified. Particles are automatically reflected off (they don't even touch his skin), eliminating friction at high speeds. Oxygen intake is maintained through selective alteration of the speed of incoming air to allow normal respiration. High G forces are not experienced due to setting g=0.
  • Ballistic projectiles -> simple modification of projectile's speed and direction
  • Passive redirection -> simple firewall. Selectively reflects foreign malicious forces/substances unless manually overridden.
  • Super strength -> modification of the magnitude of the force applied by basic physical movements/actions.
  • Heating -> vibration of particles causing heating via friction.
  • Freezing -> opposite of the above

Advanced (usually involves microscopic particles)
  • Wind manipulation -> same as ballistic projectiles, except on a smaller level. Requires more calculating power and can be easily countered since only the molecules' vectors touching his AIM field can be modified. Specific vibration patterns must be preserved.
  • Sound Jamming -> molecular vibrations near ear area are modified as to filter out chosen frequencies.
  • Invisibility -> light bending, similar to active camouflage. Other light manipulation applications include mirrors (reflection) and lasers (amplification).
  • Memory alteration -> bioelectricity alteration. Electrons are selectively moved and neurons selectively stimulated. The specifics of this application is still not fully understood since memory storage in biological brains are not yet fully understood (at least, I don't fully understand it yet).
  • Compound breaking/decomposition -> movements of electrons altered and are thus ejected, freeing nuclei.
  • Nuclear fission/fusion -> nuclei are torn apart by extracting protons through direction modification. A single proton's acceleration is greatly increased to the extent of negating strong nuclear forces holding together atomic nuclei. For fusion, either the repulsive force is sufficiently redirected until the two nuclei make contact, making strong nuclear forces take over, or two nuclei are accelerated to near-luminal speeds and set to collide with each other.
And by the way,
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Originally Posted by BlueDo View Post
thus making it a one-way-traffic
in the spirit of the other character discussion threads, I suggest we put 「One-Way Street」 somewhere in this thread's title.
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Old 2010-02-26, 13:55   Link #102
Vanish
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Sweet, thanks for the replies! Acc's the most interesting char to me after all.


Edit:
Oh yeah... so summarized, he compresses the air into ultra high-temperatured plasma as far as I understand.
So wouldn't he be able to do the opposite and not focus the 'material' into one spot, but prevent that exact spot from inhabiting anything to create a vacuum?

Last edited by Vanish; 2010-02-26 at 17:50.
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Old 2010-02-26, 18:50   Link #103
giorno
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technically, yes, he should be able to...

@ice block: you sure accelerator's power works at the sub-atomic level? i mean, if that were the case, he'd be a slightly toned down version of dr manhattan....and he never looked to be that powerful(also, i don't think kihara would even think of fighting him if that were the case...)
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Old 2010-02-26, 18:57   Link #104
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Oh okay, just reminded me of Havoc / Carmine from Darker Than Black who was able to create vacuums and was said to be (imo just one of) the strongest Contractors out there. lol

Also come to think of it, memory alteration would be kind of overrated, and that's part of that other Level 5's ability if I remember correctly.
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Old 2010-02-26, 20:34   Link #105
Miraluka
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More than memory alteration was a brain hacking.
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Old 2010-02-26, 21:51   Link #106
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Well, Accelerator reconstructed a brain, so that's at the atomic level.
Granted, he can't do such complex calculations on the fly.

Nuclear reactions should be within his league, since it's not THAT much harder.
He's never going to need it, though, since espers break the law of thermodynamics anyways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
If Accelerator reflects gravity, he'll fly off into space.
You do realize this is Accelerator, the smartest guy in Academy City, not a newbie at a videogame?

Last edited by BlueDo; 2010-02-27 at 01:53.
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Old 2010-02-28, 10:00   Link #107
tsunade666
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and even if he can fly it will eat up all his calculating ability and right now his ability is cut down to half thanks to him being hit in his head. Even if he can't fly or rather to me its more like floating with 0 gravity. And using the air around him to move its still unthinkable because it will eat up most of his calculating abilities and he will be vulnerable. If he can really fly that long then he should have use it. Before. As of now I only heard him walk on buildings and burst rocket the ground and also falling from a skyscraper without a scratch that most likely needed 0 gravity.

And yes. Accel can to atomic level calculations but that eat all of his calculating abilities and that's before the incident of brain damage. Right now with his current state he could only do that in black wings mode. Doing high complex computation means that he would take off his passive firewall of AIM field.
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Old 2010-02-28, 10:47   Link #108
Ice Block
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
and even if he can fly it will eat up all his calculating ability and right now his ability is cut down to half thanks to him being hit in his head. Even if he can't fly or rather to me its more like floating with 0 gravity. And using the air around him to move its still unthinkable because it will eat up most of his calculating abilities and he will be vulnerable. If he can really fly that long then he should have use it. Before. As of now I only heard him walk on buildings and burst rocket the ground and also falling from a skyscraper without a scratch that most likely needed 0 gravity.
Check TAMnI Ep13. Low altitude, yes, but if that's not flight, then I don't know what your definition of flight is.
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Old 2010-02-28, 11:43   Link #109
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Exactly, he doesn't have to 'reflect' gravity (which is impossible anyway), he just has to selectively reflect air molecules to provide lift and thrust. Any helicopter does the same thing, though by a very different mechanism.
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Old 2010-02-28, 16:12   Link #110
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I'm saying Accelerator can direct the force gravity exerts on him in different directions.
Of course, Devil's Proof would say that he's never shown to do anything of the sort.
We'll have to ask novel readers what happens here, then.
Spoiler for vol 15:
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Old 2010-02-28, 16:30   Link #111
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Seriously, I could do anything for faster translations of the LN everytime I see pictures or read spoilers. <_<
Then again I could learn Japanese for the heck of it.
Then again I don't even have the raws of the LN.
Then again my brother mentioned he had those as imagefiles for apparently no reason.
Fukou da.
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Old 2010-03-01, 09:53   Link #112
tsunade666
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episode 13? back in index? well I did say he could stay air borne for a couple of second the one I'm against is him FLYING!. I think flight and flying are different right? I think it's impossible for him to fly in air where he has total control of his flying. If its just a high jump or rapid jump or just stay on air for a couple of seconds its possible. But for flying sky high and then stay air borne is I think impossible.

That picture is the picture when his having a fight with
Spoiler:
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Old 2010-03-01, 21:22   Link #113
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Hey everyone. Glad to see this thread, seeing as Accelerator has, quite possibly, THE most rule-breaking ability thanks to the heavy reliance of vectors in virtually all branches of physics. Everything that "moves" has a vector and while not everything moves, those that don't probably don't have much application in the real world as it is (based on my own meager knowledge of physics)


Now I hope I'm not breaking any trains-of-thought here, but...

I was just wondering if anyone would like to start up a discussion on the extent of Accelerator's abilities? Perhaps this was already done before (and if so I apologize), but I'm particularly interested in the part where...

Spoiler:

I may be missing many details as I only really know what the anime itself has shown (I haven't read the light novels, etc.), so I'm sorry if the answer is obvious. However, it seems to me that while theoretically possible, doing such a thing is probably out of the scope of even "Tree Diagram". I just don't see it as believable.

Of course, you could argue that if you wanted realism, why watch/read Index anyway? In which case, I'm sorry I've wasted your time.
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Old 2010-03-01, 22:30   Link #114
Miraluka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takisho View Post
Hey everyone. Glad to see this thread, seeing as Accelerator has, quite possibly, THE most rule-breaking ability thanks to the heavy reliance of vectors in virtually all branches of physics. Everything that "moves" has a vector and while not everything moves, those that don't probably don't have much application in the real world as it is (based on my own meager knowledge of physics)


Now I hope I'm not breaking any trains-of-thought here, but...

I was just wondering if anyone would like to start up a discussion on the extent of Accelerator's abilities? Perhaps this was already done before (and if so I apologize), but I'm particularly interested in the part where...

Spoiler:

I may be missing many details as I only really know what the anime itself has shown (I haven't read the light novels, etc.), so I'm sorry if the answer is obvious. However, it seems to me that while theoretically possible, doing such a thing is probably out of the scope of even "Tree Diagram". I just don't see it as believable.

Of course, you could argue that if you wanted realism, why watch/read Index anyway? In which case, I'm sorry I've wasted your time.


Since the begining, when the "supernatural powers being canalized by science" was introduced with the esper Mikoto shooting a railgun started the fiction(pseudo-science or whatever you want to call it).
I'm sure that many of us already noticed this fact without any difficult.
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Old 2010-03-02, 00:06   Link #115
Ice Block
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Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
episode 13? back in index? well I did say he could stay air borne for a couple of second the one I'm against is him FLYING!. I think flight and flying are different right? I think it's impossible for him to fly in air where he has total control of his flying. If its just a high jump or rapid jump or just stay on air for a couple of seconds its possible. But for flying sky high and then stay air borne is I think impossible.
Ha? Flight is the act of flying / ability to fly. From Merriam-Webster:
Quote:
Main Entry: 1flight
Pronunciation: \ˈflīt\
Function: noun
Usage: often attributive
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English flyht; akin to Middle Dutch vlucht flight, Old English flēogan to fly
Date: before 12th century

1 a : an act or instance of passing through the air by the use of wings <the flight of a bee> b : the ability to fly <flight is natural to birds>
2 a : a passing through the air or through space outside the earth's atmosphere <flight of an arrow> <flight of a rocket to the moon> b : the distance covered in such a flight c : swift movement
3 a : a trip made by or in an airplane or spacecraft b : a scheduled airplane trip
4 : a group of similar beings or objects flying through the air together
5 : a brilliant, imaginative, or unrestrained exercise or display <a flight of fancy>
6 a : a continuous series of stairs from one landing or floor to another b : a series (as of terraces or conveyors) resembling a flight of stairs
7 : a unit of the United States Air Force below a squadron
Quote:
Main Entry: 1fly
Pronunciation: \ˈflī\
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): flew \ˈflü\; flown \ˈflōn\; fly·ing
Etymology: Middle English flien, from Old English flēogan; akin to Old High German fliogan to fly and probably to Old English flōwan to flow
Date: before 12th century

intransitive verb 1 a : to move in or pass through the air with wings b : to move through the air or before the wind or through outer space c : to float, wave, or soar in the air <flags flying at half-mast>
2 a : to take flight : flee b : to fade and disappear : vanish
3 a : to move, pass, or spread quickly <rumors were flying> b : to be moved with sudden extreme emotion <flew into a rage> c : to seem to pass quickly <the time simply flew>
4 : to become expended or dissipated rapidly
5 : to operate or travel in an airplane or spacecraft
6 : to work successfully : win popular acceptance <knew…a pure human-rights approach would not fly — Charles Brydon>transitive verb 1 a : to cause to fly, float, or hang in the air <flying a kite> b : to operate (as a balloon, aircraft, rocket, or spacecraft) in flight c : to journey over or through by flying
2 a : to flee or escape from b : avoid, shun
3 : to transport by aircraft or spacecraft

— fly at : to assail suddenly and violently

— fly blind : to fly an airplane solely by instruments

— fly high : to be elated

— fly in the face of or fly in the teeth of : to stand or act forthrightly or brazenly in defiance or contradiction of
And besides, Accelerator chasing down the clone in Ep13 is nothing like a high or rapid jump. He even stated that he merely "modified the vectors under his feet".

The high jumps are done by both increasing the magnitude of the vectors representing the forces exerted by the ground on his feet, and redirecting and increasing the magnitude of the vectors representing the forces exerted by his feet towards the ground, such that both supposedly opposite forces are now working together to push him upwards. Vector-powered kicks and punches work the opposite way -- the vectors representing the forces exerted by his target on his foot/fist/etc are redirected towards the target, instantly doubling the effect of the kick/punch/etc while removing the backlash/recoil. This is the reason why you feel pain when you punch a wall or something hard, the wall exerts a force on your fist equal to the force exerted by your fist on the wall -- now, guess which is more rigid/resilient?
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Old 2010-03-02, 10:04   Link #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takisho View Post
I may be missing many details as I only really know what the anime itself has shown (I haven't read the light novels, etc.), so I'm sorry if the answer is obvious. However, it seems to me that while theoretically possible, doing such a thing is probably out of the scope of even "Tree Diagram".
In series we happen to know Testament devices can achieve that. And that you can fit one in the back of a Volvo Estate. That was how Yoshikawa was planning to remove the virus from Last Order.
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Old 2010-03-03, 00:26   Link #117
shmaster
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On Accelerator's brain programing.
His manipulating the electrical signals in human brain. Also, he did not do it to the brain directly, as he can touch the brain.
What he did is manipulating the the electrical current of the neuros on the skin, and manipulate them in a way that'll cause a chain effect that can effect the electrical signals in the brain.
This is why doing so eats up so much of his calculation capacity, he has to calculate every next step of each eletrical signal on the skin surface that can eventually pass into brain and correct the brain's electrical pattern as he wish.
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Old 2010-03-04, 15:53   Link #118
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Block View Post
<snip>
Sorry for being a science Nazi, but I can't help it when fundamentals of science are ignored when quoting wiki.

When applying the concept of vectors, always remember the direction is propagated by a force, thus proving true for Newton's First Law (and in the case of light and electrostatics we include Einstein's Mass-Energy equivalence and Principle of Conservation of Energy). Therefore we can apply Newton's Third Law of opposing forces in whatever he does.

THAT is the thing that makes him vincible. As much as he likes to manipulate vectors, he can't manipulate all of it, or he can only do so for a limited amount of time. But his capability of his power is limitless as long as he can think of a way to apply it.

Thus you can't ignore mass when it comes to calculating vectors. He can actually edit the total mass by applying the Zeroth and First Laws of Thermodynamics, and the science of phase transition in matter : by just simply redirecting energy transferred to or out of the object.
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Old 2010-03-04, 16:32   Link #119
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@SaintessHeart
There isn't a "the cat in the box" example for what you just posted, is there?
Unfortunately my level of understanding regarding that matter reaches Toma intelligence. lol
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Old 2010-03-05, 02:53   Link #120
Ice Block
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Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Sorry for being a science Nazi, but I can't help it when fundamentals of science are ignored when quoting wiki.

When applying the concept of vectors, always remember the direction is propagated by a force, thus proving true for Newton's First Law (and in the case of light and electrostatics we include Einstein's Mass-Energy equivalence and Principle of Conservation of Energy). Therefore we can apply Newton's Third Law of opposing forces in whatever he does.

THAT is the thing that makes him vincible. As much as he likes to manipulate vectors, he can't manipulate all of it, or he can only do so for a limited amount of time. But his capability of his power is limitless as long as he can think of a way to apply it.

Thus you can't ignore mass when it comes to calculating vectors. He can actually edit the total mass by applying the Zeroth and First Laws of Thermodynamics, and the science of phase transition in matter : by just simply redirecting energy transferred to or out of the object.
Hmmm, I think we are having a disconnect here. Can you explain how you think Accelerator's ability works? I think you're model of his ability is quite different from mine. To illustrate, it is apparent from the anime that his ability has power over the above concepts, seeing as he can redirect forces and can supply energy to a natural system by supernatural means. Also, his Auto-reflect is passive, and works even when he's unconscious.
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