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Old 2010-02-26, 21:15   Link #5881
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Originally Posted by zero7 View Post
if hayate bro and hayate is the same character than bro would of prevented both a-tan and hayate suffering
unless it was somehow necessary
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Old 2010-02-26, 21:19   Link #5882
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unless it was somehow necessary
Or it's fate, like when Hayate slipped into the past before to help Nagi. Could also be a self-correcting time stream, where no matter what he tried to do, it would lead to the same outcome.
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Old 2010-02-27, 01:48   Link #5883
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Originally Posted by zodanhko View Post
Wonder if Hayate's brother is currently inside the Royal Garden which explains him missing for 10 years, and Athena wanted to return to the RG to help free him.
If Hayate's bro has spent 10 (outside world) years in the RG then he should be already dead. 5 days in the outside world are 2 months in the RG. So, 10 years in the outside world should be 120 years in the RG.

I'm sure her reasons to want to return to the RG must be linked to her family.
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Old 2010-02-27, 02:42   Link #5884
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I have thought of that possibility. It won't surprise me if he were to sleep for a hundred years like the Avatar. Lol
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Old 2010-02-27, 08:20   Link #5885
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I'll probably run fairly solo in here, but I'll say it anyway: So far, I have difficulties caring about the whole Royal Garden substory. Which is a bad thing, because it's obviously supposed to be so central, but... I REALLY have difficulties dredging up curiosity about it. Because it feels so very much unrelated to the rest of the show.

For a dozen tankoubons, the story in HnG develops around a core of characters. And all of a sudden - unrelated to essentially everything else - the End of the World arc begins with an entirely new character Athena, with only Hayate as known character. Feels very much like an alternate universe kind of substory.

Even now, when Hata tries to interweave this Arc with the rest of the story, but the connection to the core cast (Nagi, Maria, Hina, Ayumu, Sakuya, Isumi) is essentially nonexistent. I suspect that first there needs to be a bigger explanation for me why I should care...

*shrugs shoulders sadly*
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Old 2010-02-27, 09:29   Link #5886
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It's not a problem that you don't care. Just believe in yourself. ^.^

Anyway, the original title of HnG is the "Royal Garden." Nagi character was made from Athena, and they were planned to be the same character until some problems occurred with the age differences which made Hata introduced Athena as a whole new character. Rather than a sub-story, it's more like the main story of HnG.
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Old 2010-02-27, 11:09   Link #5887
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Originally Posted by zodanhko View Post

Anyway, the original title of HnG is the "Royal Garden." Nagi character was made from Athena, and they were planned to be the same character until some problems occurred with the age differences which made Hata introduced Athena as a whole new character. Rather than a sub-story, it's more like the main story of HnG.
Then the first 160+ chapters were just filler waiting for the main story to take place ..? I think that's kind of unfair to the fans of the other characters. And if it's like you say, why did he wait so long before introducing this "main story" then ?
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Old 2010-02-27, 11:18   Link #5888
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Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
Even now, when Hata tries to interweave this Arc with the rest of the story, but the connection to the core cast (Nagi, Maria, Hina, Ayumu, Sakuya, Isumi) is essentially nonexistent.
Nagi getting a role is basically granted, especially now that we know that Yukariko was involved with the Power of Royalty being stolen, and even more so if Hayate's bro is indeed her father - not to mention that Nagi still is the main female character, and that was shown rather well in this arc.

Maria remains a big mystery. We have no idea why Mikado took her in, and personally, I'm not buying the "we just happened to find her under a statue of the Virgin Mary" story. She also seems to know Athena. In addition to this, she's Nagi's surrogate mother.

Hina will definitely be tied to this story, somehow, even if she shouldn't be. She's just far too popular amongst the fans, Hata cannot simply leave her out.

Ayumu and Sakuya have never played large roles in the story, no matter how much I love them. I'm sure they'll remain the same way.

Isumi is the magical girl, and she seems somewhat tied to the RG story already.

So, I wouldn't say they'll be left out. However, at the same time, if Hata plans to keep Athena as a regular character, and perhaps a main one, then she needs this much exposure. I'm sure everything will end up tied, somehow, in the end.
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Old 2010-02-27, 11:41   Link #5889
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Originally Posted by Serffix View Post
Then the first 160+ chapters were just filler waiting for the main story to take place ..? I think that's kind of unfair to the fans of the other characters. And if it's like you say, why did he wait so long before introducing this "main story" then ?
Yes, that's a harsh and another way to put it. Those last few hundred of chapters did have relationship build-up and comedic genre of the story.

I think the waiting has to do with the right time for Athena's introduction, and it was done beautifully. The story about Royal Garden was planned from the beginning.
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/hayate...er/c001/9.html

Edit: Rather than said the main story, maybe I should have said the main plot of the story?

Last edited by zodanhko; 2010-02-27 at 11:55.
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Old 2010-02-27, 12:38   Link #5890
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Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
I'll probably run fairly solo in here, but I'll say it anyway: So far, I have difficulties caring about the whole Royal Garden substory. Which is a bad thing, because it's obviously supposed to be so central, but... I REALLY have difficulties dredging up curiosity about it. Because it feels so very much unrelated to the rest of the show.

For a dozen tankoubons, the story in HnG develops around a core of characters. And all of a sudden - unrelated to essentially everything else - the End of the World arc begins with an entirely new character Athena, with only Hayate as known character. Feels very much like an alternate universe kind of substory.

Even now, when Hata tries to interweave this Arc with the rest of the story, but the connection to the core cast (Nagi, Maria, Hina, Ayumu, Sakuya, Isumi) is essentially nonexistent. I suspect that first there needs to be a bigger explanation for me why I should care...

*shrugs shoulders sadly*
You know, I had the same view about the EotW when it finished. On its own, it was a very nice story with a really heart-breaking ending and some really interesting mysteries and several inserted hints and subtly details to add to the intrigue of it. It helped add layers to the story and expanded on the background of characters, as well as introducing Athena and Hayate's brother. But the way it was introduced can only be described as ''forced''. The story didn't appear out of the outcome of previous events, but simply because Hayate all of the sudden remembered something -> Cut to the past -> Return to the main story. Now Hata is by no means a great writer, but at least he shows when he does put in effort to think about the characters (as seen in the volume comments) and how they reveal that information. The way the EotW arc just pops ups was really not that thought-out as it should have been.

Now the current arc had a better set up from the get go, and had more interactions from the other characters (Hina, Nagi and Isumi had the most prominence in this arc as Used Can pointed out, while the rest of the cast always had the supporting characters label ably to their foreheads for a long time now (unfortunately)).

What I think Hata is trying to do is that he is gradually tying the Royal Garden sub-plot with the main plot with thin threads every step of the way, which seems to work fine thus far (ofc we have to gloss over the inconstancy that this arc gave us, but I want to wait to see how will all of this will wrap up before I bring that up) Whether he succeeds in doing so remains to be seen. Right now, I personally think that the arc on its own has been very enjoyable and may just earn a solid ''7'' from me if it manages to end right.

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Originally Posted by zodanhko View Post
Anyway, the original title of HnG is the "Royal Garden." Nagi character was made from Athena, and they were planned to be the same character until some problems occurred with the age differences which made Hata introduced Athena as a whole new character. Rather than a sub-story, it's more like the main story of HnG.
While all of this is interesting trivia, it really has little relevance to what is the current story is right now. Plans change all the time, and many authors (from all mediums) talk about how they create characters from other characters or how they had different plans for the storyline, but at the end of the day what matters is what actually happened, and now the main story is about how a butler in dept serving an underage girl who happens to have a crush on him, all the while they face all the mambo jumbo and wacky situations they encounter with their friends.
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Originally Posted by zodanhko View Post
Yes, that's a harsh and another way to put it. Those last few hundred of chapters did have relationship build-up and comedic genre of the story.

I think the waiting has to do with the right time for Athena's introduction, and it was done beautifully. The story about Royal Garden was planned from the beginning.
{link}

Edit: Rather than said the main story, maybe I should have said the main plot of the story?
It could just be me, but all I see is the silhouette of the Royal Palace. That doesn't mean he planed to insert them into the story later on. He could've wanted to throw it in as trivia.

And the plot isn't going to change. All of the Royal Garden storyline going to do is introduce Hayate's brother and give additional back story. It isn't going to hijack the plot.
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Old 2010-02-27, 13:20   Link #5891
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Originally Posted by Arabesque View Post
While all of this is interesting trivia, it really has little relevance to what is the current story is right now. Plans change all the time, and many authors (from all mediums) talk about how they create characters from other characters or how they had different plans for the storyline, but at the end of the day what matters is what actually happened, and now the main story is about how a butler in dept serving an underage girl who happens to have a crush on him, all the while they face all the mambo jumbo and wacky situations they encounter with their friends.
The creation of the characters show how Athena isn't just a out of blue character created by Hata to be inserted into the story. And the fact that he wanted to introduced Athena as the same character as Nagi prove that she bounds to appear. Just wanted to comment on Mentar's statement.

The story of the HnG had always about a butler and his mistress, and that fact hasn't change from when it was first planned. And neither was the important of the RG which took 30 chapters, the longest arc yet, and still continuing.

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It could just be me, but all I see is the silhouette of the Royal Palace. That doesn't mean he planed to insert them into the story later on. He could've wanted to throw it in as trivia.

And the plot isn't going to change. All of the Royal Garden storyline going to do is introduce Hayate's brother and give additional back story. It isn't going to hijack the plot.
I think it was already clear that it was planned be a part of the story with additional the information given.

Sure, there will be more comedy and harem interactions in the future with fillers comedy chapters about Tama, Klaus, etc, etc. But I won't call that a stable or important plot. Mikado's plan and the Power of God including the return to the RG will be playing a role in future chapters. Who is the final boss whom everyone's pondering about?
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Old 2010-02-27, 14:01   Link #5892
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But the way it was introduced can only be described as ''forced''. The story didn't appear out of the outcome of previous events, but simply because Hayate all of the sudden remembered something -> Cut to the past -> Return to the main story.
See, I've only recently gotten into the series, and maybe because I already knew it was coming, but it didn't really seem like it was out of nowhere to me. The series was actually quite good about being consistent with Hayate and how he felt about A-tan even as far back as her first appearance. I would agree that Hata probably wasn't originally going to have the mood of "The End of the World" be as dark as it was, but in retrospect, almost every time someone asked Hayate point blank about how he felt about romance, Athena was brought up and it was shown that she was still very much a part of his thoughts in that respect.

Personally, I absolutely loved the mood of EotW, even if it was darker and more dramatic than anything that came before it. I loved the fairy tale atmosphere. And I especially loved Athena. She was officious without being a bitch, fun while still being tragic. Watching the two of them, even though they were just kids, made me feel really warm.

As I read the series, Athena was what I had been waiting for--someone Hayate was actually interested in. She allowed us to see a broader picture of Hayate through his interaction with her, especially in the Athens arc currently. After two hundred chapters of girls throwing themselves at him, and Hayate being "DERP" about it, it was extremely refreshing to me to see a mutual relationship begin to take form.

This isn't to say I expected what we seem to be getting. After Hayate saved Athena, I fully expected the plot to whisk her offstage. What's between Hayate and Athena definitely reads as a Love Story, and so I expected a Love Story-esque end with Hayate and Athena smiling at one another bittersweetly, with the knowledge that "it'll never work out". Her sitting beside him and explaining her story while looking up at the stars with him for one last night. That sort of thing, you know? Not Athena settling into his lap and the two of them flirting and hugging while blushing.

So I'm pleasantly surprised, and hope this speaks of Athena's integration into the plot further. Watching the two of them makes me happy. I feel like they're the best couple we've seen so far, because they're both mutually invested in one another, and they make each other more interesting together than they are necessarily separately. I'm still bracing for that bittersweet goodbye, but I'm hoping for something else.

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And the plot isn't going to change. All of the Royal Garden storyline going to do is introduce Hayate's brother and give additional back story. It isn't going to hijack the plot.
Personally, I think Royal Garden probably is the plot. I can already see how it can involve Maria and Nagi--heck, the set up of this arc was fundamentally about Nagi even more than it was about Athena--and the rest of the characters, Hayate excluded, natch, pretty much are window dressing. This doesn't mean we won't shift back to lighter arcs for a while, only that, geez, guys, the EotW arc was nearly a hundred chapters ago, and you're still not convinced it's a major part of the storyline by now?

This type of arc is the arc everyone was talking about, where Hayate is forced to choose between Nagi and someone he genuinely loves? This was that arc. Anything that comes after it along those lines is going to seem like a retread if Hata isn't careful. It also tells us that romance really isn't the end game--which is an excellent move on Hata's part, as it allows him to extend the series while still allowing the characters to progress.
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Old 2010-02-27, 15:02   Link #5893
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It's not a problem that you don't care. Just believe in yourself. ^.^
I'll try ^_^;

Quote:
Anyway, the original title of HnG is the "Royal Garden." Nagi character was made from Athena, and they were planned to be the same character until some problems occurred with the age differences which made Hata introduced Athena as a whole new character. Rather than a sub-story, it's more like the main story of HnG.
"Royal Garden" was rejected when it was offered. Hata was sent back to the drawing board, and he came up with Hayate no Gotoku instead, which was subsequently accepted.

If you really want to view 160 lead character as "side story", be my guest. In this case I have to say that so far I fail to be interested in the main story.
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Old 2010-02-27, 15:05   Link #5894
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Originally Posted by zodanhko View Post
There was/is more than one stone, and I think Yukariko at least kept one for herself when she found the 9 stones.
You mean, Yukariko is Sauron.

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Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
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Old 2010-02-27, 15:07   Link #5895
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Originally Posted by Mentar View Post

If you really want to view 160 lead character as "side story", be my guest. In this case I have to say that so far I fail to be interested in the main story.
Same here, I'm really not interested in those stones nor in whatever Mikado is up to. It just keeps dragging on and on now.. I'll be glad when they're back at Hakuou.
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Old 2010-02-27, 15:14   Link #5896
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I'll be glad when they're back at Hakuou.
I think the Hakuou chapters were beginning to drag more, honestly, since the characters were in a holding pattern and he seemed to be running out of gags. At least adding a plot allows for more than "have one allotted romantic moment with [insert girl here] that won't actually change or further a damn thing, rinse and repeat."

For example, I found Hinagiku to be pretty self absorbed and sort irritating once they reached Athens in a lot of respects, but overall, I liked the conclusion the story put forth for her and I feel that she'll probably grow as a character from all this. I know Nagi definitely did.
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Old 2010-02-27, 15:26   Link #5897
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while I do wish Hata had throw more "Athena incoming" warnings that he did, that doesnt mean he didnt try, I mean...the closer we got to the EotW arc the more frequent the Athena flashbacks were...think about it, if EotW was on ch178...Hayate had flashback at ch145(?), 171, 177...the gaps were getting closer...and I believe that ch177 perfectly set up for the arc to begin, since Nagi's words were the catalyst that cause Hayate to have that dream again.
To be completely honest before EotW although enjoyable...the manga was starting to turn stale...I guess I just dont have stamina for 150+ chapters of random comedy before I start to lose interest...introducing Athena really helped me regain my interest in the series since I actually had something to look forward to in the future of the series. (their reunion) While its been a long break since pure comedy chapters I would gladly welcome them back, for me at this moment the manga is at its most enjoyable its been since...well...ever :\ Hata did a great job introducing us to so many great characters, so seeing them involved in actual developments is greatly satisfying
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Old 2010-02-27, 16:20   Link #5898
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See, I've only recently gotten into the series, and maybe because I already knew it was coming, but it didn't really seem like it was out of nowhere to me. The series was actually quite good about being consistent with Hayate and how he felt about A-tan even as far back as her first appearance. I would agree that Hata probably wasn't originally going to have the mood of "The End of the World" be as dark as it was, but in retrospect, almost every time someone asked Hayate point blank about how he felt about romance, Athena was brought up and it was shown that she was still very much a part of his thoughts in that respect.
Unless I'm mistaken, then at the moment Athena was introduced she had been mentioned a grand total of ONE time, as an example of Hayate's crazy former girlfriend who taught him that he couldn't have a girlfriend if he couldn't provide her with the money she needs. Or, as Hina put it, "so this is why Hayate is so warped". Should I be wrong here, please list chapters as reference. I would hardly consider this "very much a part of Hayate's thoughts on romance".

Quote:
Personally, I absolutely loved the mood of EotW, even if it was darker and more dramatic than anything that came before it. I loved the fairy tale atmosphere. And I especially loved Athena. She was officious without being a bitch, fun while still being tragic. Watching the two of them, even though they were just kids, made me feel really warm.
Fair enough. It felt more tragic than warm to me, but that's fine.

Quote:
As I read the series, Athena was what I had been waiting for--someone Hayate was actually interested in. She allowed us to see a broader picture of Hayate through his interaction with her, especially in the Athens arc currently. After two hundred chapters of girls throwing themselves at him, and Hayate being "DERP" about it, it was extremely refreshing to me to see a mutual relationship begin to take form.
We'll see. He had to be coaxed to hug her, and the "flirting" was a bit one-sided. Yes, I'd certainly give her the current lead over the competition, but I saw glimpses of the old "dense" Hayate resurfacing. Do you see him actively pursue anything romantic yet? I'm not so sure...

Save her, HELL YES ABSOLUTELY. Wine her, dine her, woo her? Not yet.

Quote:
This isn't to say I expected what we seem to be getting. After Hayate saved Athena, I fully expected the plot to whisk her offstage. What's between Hayate and Athena definitely reads as a Love Story, and so I expected a Love Story-esque end with Hayate and Athena smiling at one another bittersweetly, with the knowledge that "it'll never work out". Her sitting beside him and explaining her story while looking up at the stars with him for one last night. That sort of thing, you know? Not Athena settling into his lap and the two of them flirting and hugging while blushing.
I also predicted Athena's departure, so we're not far apart here. But I still don't see Hayate actively getting closer to Athena on his own volition quite yet, rather getting along with Athena's initiatives. What will have a big impact on my opinion of Hayate will be how he will deal with his Nagi obligation from now on.

Quote:
Personally, I think Royal Garden probably is the plot.
I'm afraid you may be right.

Quote:
I can already see how it can involve Maria and Nagi--heck, the set up of this arc was fundamentally about Nagi even more than it was about Athena--and the rest of the characters, Hayate excluded, natch, pretty much are window dressing. This doesn't mean we won't shift back to lighter arcs for a while, only that, geez, guys, the EotW arc was nearly a hundred chapters ago, and you're still not convinced it's a major part of the storyline by now?
Not sure if this was directed at me, but that's not what I've said. I don't like it because it's a forced and poorly integrated second storyline which is now entirely superseding the first 160 chapters. It feels like Hata trying hard to write the "Royal Garden" story which was originally rejected by having Hayate no Gotoku carry it piggyback.

What went well was the dilemma "save Nagi or save Athena". What also went well was the integration of the Hina tragedy/sacrifice. But at the moment (c262) we have a late-entry character (Athena) telling a story about secondary characters doing secondary things and trying to make us care about it. To be honest, I don't. At least not before it directly impacts Nagi and the others, and if that is so, I want her to be around. I want her to know about it, I want to see her REACT to it. If a story must be told to omniscient viewers to work, that's usually no good sign. Other example: The whole shebang about the "sword of justice" and blah: I couldn't care less about that back then. Why? Because it had no bearing on the main characters.

So, dear Hata, if you REALLY want to force your Royal Garden storyline through, INTEGRATE THE MAIN CAST. NOW. I do NOT want this stuff to be told via Athena flashbacks showing secondary characters. There are much more interesting things to deal with now, IMHO.
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Old 2010-02-27, 17:04   Link #5899
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Not sure if this was directed at me, but that's not what I've said. I don't like it because it's a forced and poorly integrated second storyline which is now entirely superseding the first 160 chapters. It feels like Hata trying hard to write the "Royal Garden" story which was originally rejected by having Hayate no Gotoku carry it piggyback.

What went well was the dilemma "save Nagi or save Athena". What also went well was the integration of the Hina tragedy/sacrifice. But at the moment (c262) we have a late-entry character (Athena) telling a story about secondary characters doing secondary things and trying to make us care about it. To be honest, I don't. At least not before it directly impacts Nagi and the others, and if that is so, I want her to be around. I want her to know about it, I want to see her REACT to it. If a story must be told to omniscient viewers to work, that's usually no good sign. Other example: The whole shebang about the "sword of justice" and blah: I couldn't care less about that back then. Why? Because it had no bearing on the main characters.

So, dear Hata, if you REALLY want to force your Royal Garden storyline through, INTEGRATE THE MAIN CAST. NOW. I do NOT want this stuff to be told via Athena flashbacks showing secondary characters. There are much more interesting things to deal with now, IMHO.
Other authors usually make a spinoff for telling background story elements, but I do commend Hata for trying something ambitious in incorporating such elements into his story, especially since there is no one single 'correct way' for good story telling in particular. Characters such as Himegami, Hayate's bro and Yukariko although secondary characters are no less important because they influenced the main characters to who they are now in many ways, so seeing things develop in that sense does help the story presentation more than it hurts.
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Old 2010-02-27, 17:22   Link #5900
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Unless I'm mistaken, then at the moment Athena was introduced she had been mentioned a grand total of ONE time, as an example of Hayate's crazy former girlfriend who taught him that he couldn't have a girlfriend if he couldn't provide her with the money she needs. Or, as Hina put it, "so this is why Hayate is so warped". Should I be wrong here, please list chapters as reference. I would hardly consider this "very much a part of Hayate's thoughts on romance".
Athena's appearances:

Chapter 88: She's used as a semi-comedic explanation for Hayate's "disinterest" in girls because of the way she "taught" him to be worthy of them. This is the appearance you're thinking of.

Chapter 144: When Hayate explains that he's not good with girls, even the ones he likes, he remembers Athena getting angry with him. This is also probably the best hint that the original EotW was less dramatic and dark because there's no hint of swords and such, just her gesturing for him to leave.

Chapter 172: The longest Athena flashback, culminating in Hayate's tears as he thinks about her. Strongly suggests his lingering feelings for her, and his desire to apologize to her for what happened. It's also worth noting, again, the image of her demanding him leave isn't as "dark", as it's the same one used in chapter 144.

Chapter 177: Hayate is reminded of Athena by what Nagi says about being together forever.

Those also happen to be the times when someone has been direct enough to ask Hayate how he feels about romantic relationships. If there's one thing Hayate has been, it's been totally consistent on this level. Thinking a girl is attractive and liking her as a person is not the same as being in love with her. It's worth noting that even in Hayate's nightmare of Athena comically killing him for being a flirt, his mind still has her say "even though you have me".

Also, as an aside, since this is after she was introduced, in chapter 196, when asked about someone he'd want to romantically confess to, the only one that pops into his head is Athena.


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Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
Fair enough. It felt more tragic than warm to me, but that's fine.
The warmth comes from their obvious shared feelings. Things like kissing one another, chasing one another through the halls of that huge castle, and sleeping together in the same bed blurred the lines between childhood friendship and romance in a really nice way for me. It's one of the nicest depictions of a "pure romance" I can remember in recent memory, thus I found it very affecting.

The tragedy comes from the warmth it had. It wouldn't be a tragedy if nothing important had seemed to have been lost.

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Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
We'll see. He had to be coaxed to hug her, and the "flirting" was a bit one-sided. Yes, I'd certainly give her the current lead over the competition, but I saw glimpses of the old "dense" Hayate resurfacing. Do you see him actively pursue anything romantic yet? I'm not so sure...
The reason I liked the chapter so much was because of the way she played off of him. His denseness has a huge part of play in that. Athena, unlike the other girls, doesn't retreat in the face of it. She just keeps on rephrasing in hints until she reaches him and he understands. To me, I think that's the ideal way to interact with Hayate in a romantic setting. Once he understood what she wanted, he didn't have any problem wrapping his arms around her and holding her close, even as he blushed fire engine red.

In every other romantic situation, Hayate has only been "being nice" and is completely ignorant of the romantic connotations, or only intellectually acknowledged the setting to be potentially romantic, or the contact is accidental and so he didn't have a choice in how to respond because he fell against the girl, or something along those lines. Here, he had to deliberately do what she asked in order to initiate that physical contact, so it was his choice. If he wasn't interested, he could have told her he didn't think it was appropriate.

I don't think Hayate will ever be the "wine, dine, and woo" type. But more importantly, Athena seems to understand that, and reacts accordingly. That's what gives her the lead, at this moment.

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Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
I also predicted Athena's departure, so we're not far apart here. But I still don't see Hayate actively getting closer to Athena on his own volition quite yet, rather getting along with Athena's initiatives. What will have a big impact on my opinion of Hayate will be how he will deal with his Nagi obligation from now on.
It's not an either/or situation. To me, the scene in chapter 262 was showing that they still have potential. Very strong potential. But being in mutual love and dating isn't the same thing, so there's nothing he really has to juggle at the moment. Athena has been very understanding when it comes to Nagi, as she recognizes her as being his savior. She might be sad to see him go back, but there's nothing that's been shown that she won't accept it for the time being at the very least.

As 2ch said, we could very well get dialogue like this: "I'm sure your mistress is waiting. Go back to her, and I'll see you when you get back to Japan."

Hayate as he is right now, has a night off. That means, until morning, he's free to pursue what he wants to do most without duty getting in the way. At this moment, it seems like spending time curled next to A-tan as they reconnect is how he's chosen to spend it. Duty resumes in the morning, so I can't begrudge him his stolen hours to be a little bit selfish when we all know he'll be back with Nagi when the sun rises one way or another.

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Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
Not sure if this was directed at me, but that's not what I've said.
No, just speaking in general terms, not to you specifically.

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Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
What went well was the dilemma "save Nagi or save Athena". What also went well was the integration of the Hina tragedy/sacrifice.
I think calling it a sacrifice and tragedy is a little melodramatic, honestly. Hina's plotline paralleled the choice between Nagi and Athena. The arc was set up between her and Ayumu as "make him fall for me, or confess to him." As it turns out, there was a third choice. Likewise with "do I break the stone, or sacrifice Athena."

In both those cases, it turns out the choice wasn't up to Hinagiku and Hayate to make. It wasn't an either/or between her and Ayumu. Hayate had his own agency and his own feelings, and anyone that truly loved him would have accepted that. Like Hinagiku did. Likewise with Nagi and her inheritance. It was actually her decision to make, not Hayate's. So she was the one that made it in the end.

The narrative explicitly tells Hinagiku through her sister that her feelings for Hayate don't have to be requited in order to have worth. That's a really lovely message, I think. And it makes Hina into a better character. She's not tragic, she's just going through a tough spot. And since Hayate wasn't romantically interested in her, there was nothing for her to sacrifice.

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Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
I do NOT want this stuff to be told via Athena flashbacks showing secondary characters. There are much more interesting things to deal with now, IMHO.
I can't see anything of MORE interest than tying up an arc, honestly. These aren't just flashbacks, they're an explanation for how things came about. They also involve a mysterious member of Hayate's family, and Nagi's mother. Again, if you can't see how this is going to impact the main characters, I don't really know what to say. The main characters are Nagi, Hayate, and Maria. We already know that Maria and Athena are connected in some way. Nagi's mother has been brought into the narrative now, which will have a direct impact on Nagi. And Hayate is connected not only through Athena herself, but also his brother, Nagi, and Mikado.

Quite frankly, trying to bring in Hina or any of the other school members would seem much more forced at this point in time. Hinagiku's connection to Athena already seems forced and unnatural--made even moreso by her lack of reaction to someone she considered a close friend. I don't see how she could be brought into this arc. And if that goes for her, that goes doubly for the even smaller fry.
__________________
雨の日も晴れの日も
いつの日も愛してた
それだけは 今もまだ
ずっと変りはしない

Last edited by musouka; 2010-02-27 at 18:02.
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