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View Poll Results: Durarara!! - Episode 08 Rating
Perfect 10 10 13.89%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 20 27.78%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 27 37.50%
7 out of 10 : Good 11 15.28%
6 out of 10 : Average 3 4.17%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 1.39%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 72. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2010-03-04, 08:34   Link #141
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
As much as Mikado's behaviour might be understandable because he is a teenager, as I said before, continuing on this path of 'courtship' can do no good for him. The fundamental reality is that you don't 'earn' the afffection of a person of the opposite sex in a relationship, and learning how to 'court' a lady in this manner would be the worst thing possible for him. What Mikado needs to do is learn to back off, clear his head of the desperation of puberty, and start seeing girls as real people. Then he can start interacting with them as a real person himself, and develop a genuine relationship.
I don't know what you are trying to do here... How many men on the planet are actually qualified to court women, by your standard?

My impression is that you don't think a boy can try to get close to a girl he likes without spending six years in some university course on human psychology. Sure, he is clumsy, and sure, she isn't getting the message she likes. But what does that have to do with you demanding that Mikado should behave in a way that is completely beyond the capacity of even most adults?

I will not dispute your long essays on "how to get the girl", because it is meaningless in this thread. If it worked for you, fine, but you are not Mikado. And what you demand of him is no where close to a realistic expectation. Hell, it isn't even a realistic expectation for the majority of the human population.
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Old 2010-03-04, 11:19   Link #142
Guardian Enzo
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No one is changing Sol's mind and he isn't changing anyone else's (certainly not mine - Mikado is perfectly likable and his stumbling, innocent courtship is cute and rather endearing and certainly not "creepy"). Of course anyone is free to argue about this all day, if they want to - it just seems to be getting rather repetitive...
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Old 2010-03-04, 14:15   Link #143
Sol Falling
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
I don't know what you are trying to do here... How many men on the planet are actually qualified to court women, by your standard?

My impression is that you don't think a boy can try to get close to a girl he likes without spending six years in some university course on human psychology. Sure, he is clumsy, and sure, she isn't getting the message she likes. But what does that have to do with you demanding that Mikado should behave in a way that is completely beyond the capacity of even most adults?

I will not dispute your long essays on "how to get the girl", because it is meaningless in this thread. If it worked for you, fine, but you are not Mikado. And what you demand of him is no where close to a realistic expectation. Hell, it isn't even a realistic expectation for the majority of the human population.
What 'qualifications' do you think I've actually set on men anywhere? There is nothing inherently impossible or limiting about being a genuine person. You also don't need to take a psychology course to learn to be yourself, and to be considerate enough of others to let them do the same. The only things I've asked of Mikado are a) stop pushing Anri towards a closer relationship than they have already, instead focusing on the one that's already there--however small it may be currently, by letting it develop naturally, it could very well take him where he wants to by itself. And b) stop being disingeniuous and trying to take advantage of opportunities like the bullying/street fight or the class representative incidents to try to make Anri think he's somebody that he really isn't. Beyond any sort of false image that he couldn't live up to anyway, by acting as a real person around Anri he will be far more likely to develop the 'connection' he is looking for. That really isn't that hard. For a), instead of desperation, let consideration for the other person's feelings and what they want and would actually be comfortable with guide you. For b), instead of insecurity, realize that the other person isn't perfect either and that they would much more likely appreciate a real person they can relate to than some sort of 'respectful' fake trying to impress her.

I fail to see where this is too much to expect for anybody.
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Last edited by Sol Falling; 2010-03-04 at 14:34.
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Old 2010-03-04, 15:54   Link #144
Haak
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I figured the reason he tried to become a class rep and stop the bullies was because he wanted to become someone different rather than pretend to be. I mean he had the guts to go ahead and do it anyway, so i don't think there's any way he was pretending.

Looking for her shoes and going to the trouble of bringing them to her, I figured, is just the kind of nice bloke he is. I don't think he was pretending to be someone else there either.
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Old 2010-03-04, 15:59   Link #145
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
What 'qualifications' do you think I've actually set on men anywhere? There is nothing inherently impossible or limiting about being a genuine person. You also don't need to take a psychology course to learn to be yourself, and to be considerate enough of others to let them do the same. The only things I've asked of Mikado are a) stop pushing Anri towards a closer relationship than they have already, instead focusing on the one that's already there--however small it may be currently, by letting it develop naturally, it could very well take him where he wants to by itself. And b) stop being disingeniuous and trying to take advantage of opportunities like the bullying/street fight or the class representative incidents to try to make Anri think he's somebody that he really isn't. Beyond any sort of false image that he couldn't live up to anyway, by acting as a real person around Anri he will be far more likely to develop the 'connection' he is looking for. That really isn't that hard. For a), instead of desperation, let consideration for the other person's feelings and what they want and would actually be comfortable with guide you. For b), instead of insecurity, realize that the other person isn't perfect either and that they would much more likely appreciate a real person they can relate to than some sort of 'respectful' fake trying to impress her.

I fail to see where this is too much to expect for anybody.
It is too much for a boy's first love in his first year of highschool.
And from how everyone's relationship in real life has problems, it is also too much to expect from everyone else. Can everyone be a better person than they currently are? Sure. Can you expect everyone to be a better person than they currently are? That's just plain ridiculous, and not even logical.

For example:
Quote:
What Mikado needs to do is learn to back off, clear his head of the desperation of puberty, and start seeing girls as real people. Then he can start interacting with them as a real person himself, and develop a genuine relationship.
Here you are saying Mikado should stop being a teenager who is in puberty and has raging hormones, and be a mature adult. Well guess what? He CAN'T stop being in puberty, that's just the stage in his life he is in right now. Unless you want to inject drugs into his bloodstream, Mikado will act like the teenager that he is, make mistakes, and perhaps get his heart broken (or not). First crush rarely works out, but then sometimes it does.
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Old 2010-03-04, 16:02   Link #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
I figured the reason he tried to become a class rep and stop the bullies was because he wanted to become someone different rather than pretend to be. I mean he had the guts to go ahead and do it anyway, so i don't think there's any way he was pretending.

Looking for her shoes and going to the trouble of bringing them to her, I figured, is just the kind of nice bloke he is. I don't think he was pretending to be someone else there either.
Thats the way i saw it ever since the first episode i got the feeling one of the important reasons he came to Tokyo was to not only to go to school again with his best friend but to also change himself. I saw trying to become class rep as a part of that not pretending to change but to actually do so. He looked for Anri shoes even after she had given up because that's just the type of guy he is hes a nice guy. Granted the reception he received from Anri was not the best but thats besides the point he did what he did because thats who he is. I dont think he is pretending to care of pretending to try to get close to her for less than amicable reasons. He likes the girl hes a nice guy thats what nice guys do.
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Old 2010-03-04, 16:03   Link #147
Haak
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I vaguley remember him saying that specifically as well. Just before he decided to go for the class rep position if I recall.
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Old 2010-03-04, 16:28   Link #148
Iron Maw
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Correct. That was what half episode 3 was about. Kida also talks a bit about it when comparing his action now to his elementary school days.
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Old 2010-03-04, 17:57   Link #149
Sol Falling
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Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
I figured the reason he tried to become a class rep and stop the bullies was because he wanted to become someone different rather than pretend to be. I mean he had the guts to go ahead and do it anyway, so i don't think there's any way he was pretending.

Looking for her shoes and going to the trouble of bringing them to her, I figured, is just the kind of nice bloke he is. I don't think he was pretending to be someone else there either.
Spending so much time and effort to achieve something so completely minor is just the nice kind of bloke Mikado is? In that case then, the best way to communicate that to Anri and show the he isn't paying an unwelcome amount of interest to her is to spend his time going that far for other people, instead of her. Then she might actually think 'what a nice guy' and accept his kindness as she'll think 'that's just the way he is'.

The 'pretending' thing, while certain elements of those incidents might have been what Mikado really wanted, it is pretty clear in both instances that his main motivation is an interest in Anri. For the class representative thing, for example, Mikado only determines to actually do it after thinking 'I don't want anyone else to have the position'. Mikado's subsequent attempt to talk to her, furthermore, was clearly not because he was actually interested in the class representative work. Similarly for the bullies thing, it would have been totally natural for anybody to not want someone to get bullied right in front of their eyes, so we can assume some genuine altruism from Mikado. However, that was diluted by the only explicit motivation the show giving us being those fantasies about Anri gushing in thanks to him. It's his interest in Anri that comes across most clearly.

I'm also including under this 'pretending' and 'not being genuine' category such petty tricks as ditching Kida during that bullying incident and, in this episode, hypocritically telling Kida to stop looking for the shoes while he continues to such an extent as to deliever them by nightfall. This sort of stuff is just cheap credit-grabbing behaviour so that he can look better in her eyes, not actions that have any inherent merit in them. By trying to minimize the 'competition' Mikado isn't showing Anri his real self either.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
It is too much for a boy's first love in his first year of highschool.
And from how everyone's relationship in real life has problems, it is also too much to expect from everyone else. Can everyone be a better person than they currently are? Sure. Can you expect everyone to be a better person than they currently are? That's just plain ridiculous, and not even logical.

For example:

Here you are saying Mikado should stop being a teenager who is in puberty and has raging hormones, and be a mature adult. Well guess what? He CAN'T stop being in puberty, that's just the stage in his life he is in right now. Unless you want to inject drugs into his bloodstream, Mikado will act like the teenager that he is, make mistakes, and perhaps get his heart broken (or not). First crush rarely works out, but then sometimes it does.
First: in a fictional narrative, you certainly can expect the characters to be as good and likeable as they can possibly be. As for real life though, it's not about 'expecting' people to just magically become better but hoping that this sort of cluelessness isn't perpetuated. As I've tried to say several times, I'm not trying to judge people here.

And being a teenager in puberty does not mean it's impossible to be a genuine person. You don't need to be a 'mature adult' to do this stuff--it's all very natural; by thinking of the equality and give and take of a natural relationship like friendship it should be easy to see that that's how romantic relationships also work, rather than some 'gentlemanly' and 'respectful' quest to earn the approval of a pussy on a pedestal. Sure, Mikado can stumble through puberty simultaneously suffering from his cluelessness and also inflicting it upon various victims, but that's not particularly helpful to anybody--for one thing, not everybody even goes through this topical clumsy period in the first place, since if one is lucky one might have friendly and genuine relationships with girls before getting blindsided by puberty (or in all likelihood in this case not getting blindsided at all), and therefore know what's up; but furthermore, for a second, it also doesn't take much to just stop and step back once you realize that this 'be helpful and a nice guy' schtick isn't as effective as you thought it was, and put some time and effort into figuring out how things really work, even as a teenager.
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Last edited by Sol Falling; 2010-03-04 at 18:09.
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Old 2010-03-04, 19:06   Link #150
White Manju Bun
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Since this thread is in danger of getting way off topic, Ill say this, if youre discussing things related to Mikado and Anri please do it now in their seperate character threads. If youre still discussinrg the episode then do it here.
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Old 2010-03-04, 23:11   Link #151
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Join Date: Nov 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
First: in a fictional narrative, you certainly can expect the characters to be as good and likeable as they can possibly be.
So, how many characters in any fictional story is as good and likable as they can possibly be?
None. Except for divine characters.

I don't know what you are really trying to say... Are you suggesting that everyone in a fictitious story had to be saints? Because then there IS no story.

Give me one book you like, and I will find out the personal flaws of every character in that book, and trash them for the horrible humans that they are the same way you are doing to Mikado.

Go read a religious book, if you want impossibly perfect characters.
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Old 2010-03-05, 21:42   Link #152
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling
First: in a fictional narrative, you certainly can expect the characters to be as good and likeable as they can possibly be.


This applies only to the main character. A main character that is manipulative and unlikable is most likely unable to attract anyone to the plot. But one that is overly perfect tends to turn people off too.
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Old 2010-03-06, 03:01   Link #153
Raskolnikov
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Join Date: Mar 2010
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Jesus Christ what are you people doing.
This is going off into some tangent that has nothing to do with Durarara. Please, please stop it.
Also, Mikado is not really doing all of this searching so he can get into her skirt - he's a good guy, really. That's all.
And you have to admit that Anri acted like a douche this episode. This is not how you properly thank people.
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Old 2010-03-07, 22:09   Link #154
Full Metal Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raskolnikov View Post
Jesus Christ what are you people doing.
This is going off into some tangent that has nothing to do with Durarara. Please, please stop it.
Also, Mikado is not really doing all of this searching so he can get into her skirt - he's a good guy, really. That's all.
And you have to admit that Anri acted like a douche this episode. This is not how you properly thank people.
yeah that is true that he is just genuinely a nice guy but in him being a guy there is a thought at the back of his mind automatically to get into her pants.
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Old 2010-03-08, 09:45   Link #155
Raskolnikov
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Originally Posted by Full Metal Coast View Post
yeah that is true that he is just genuinely a nice guy but in him being a guy there is a thought at the back of his mind automatically to get into her pants.
Sure, it's there. Except, you know, it's not his main goal here.
The point of her being a douche still stands.
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Old 2010-03-10, 20:40   Link #156
Full Metal Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raskolnikov View Post
Sure, it's there. Except, you know, it's not his main goal here.
The point of her being a douche still stands.
bhahaha. yes this is definitely true.
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Old 2010-04-01, 16:31   Link #157
libba
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Come on, people, cut the poor boy some slack. He isn't flirting with her, saying romantic crap in reply to normal questions, is he? He isn't trying to get her phone number so that he can bother her with asking her out every day. He isn't grabbing her ass either when she walks by XD he simply tries to make a good impression.

Also... does anyone think the point might be not her being a douche but something being in her apartment that she really really did not want him to see?
Or someone.
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