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Old 2010-02-12, 22:33   Link #461
Foreshadow
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Agreed Does a scale that has two on one side and one on the other (that are all the exact same weight) ever balance out?

Last edited by Foreshadow; 2010-02-13 at 19:43. Reason: added Bold
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Old 2010-02-12, 22:43   Link #462
justavisitor
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as long as the mass on the left side equals to the mass on the right side, yeah...

I don't particular like polygamy either, but it happens that the macross universe has a good chance allowing it to happen, and it just happens that we have a "perfect triangle" in this series, so if you are Alto, why not take them all??
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Old 2010-02-12, 23:01   Link #463
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Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
as long as the mass on the left side equals to the mass on the right side, yeah...

I don't particular like polygamy either, but it happens that the macross universe has a good chance allowing it to happen, and it just happens that we have a "perfect triangle" in this series, so if you are Alto, why not take them all??
it doesn't really need to be polygamy. Gotta thank Negima for this one, it;s called Saishodoukin. Means living with both a wife and a mistress at the same time. Not quite the same as polygamy but just as good of results lol.
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Old 2010-02-12, 23:04   Link #464
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true, but if the law allows one to get multiple "legal" wives, you would think the mistress may want to get the same "title"..tho I got to admit, in reality, men will always want to have mistresses even if the society allows polygamy

Ok, I go offtopic a bit so I will stop
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Old 2010-02-13, 02:25   Link #465
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Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
true, but if the law allows one to get multiple "legal" wives, you would think the mistress may want to get the same "title"..tho I got to admit, in reality, men will always want to have mistresses even if the society allows polygamy

Ok, I go offtopic a bit so I will stop
It's in our DNA. We're actually fighting our very nature by staying in monogamous relationships. Dennis Prager has dedicated several books to the subject and I haven't been able to refute anything I've heard him say on his radio program about male sexual nature(it's not even what his radio program is about, just one topic he has dedicated much of his time on for the sake of couples and their relationships).

Having said all that, I don't agree with an Alto x Sheryl x Ranka polygamy ending. Can't do it. And would Sheryl really agree to sharing Alto in the long run? I think not.
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Old 2010-02-13, 03:14   Link #466
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It's in our DNA. We're actually fighting our very nature by staying in monogamous relationships. Dennis Prager has dedicated several books to the subject and I haven't been able to refute anything I've heard him say on his radio program about male sexual nature(it's not even what his radio program is about, just one topic he has dedicated much of his time on for the sake of couples and their relationships).

Having said all that, I don't agree with an Alto x Sheryl x Ranka polygamy ending. Can't do it. And would Sheryl really agree to sharing Alto in the long run? I think not.
the way i see it, Sheryl and Ranka seem to have a better relationship with each other than they do with Alto. So if they both love him and they love each other than why not? lol
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Old 2010-02-13, 04:58   Link #467
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the way i see it, Sheryl and Ranka seem to have a better relationship with each other than they do with Alto. So if they both love him and they love each other than why not? lol
Because it would be against everything the series led up to? Michaels death was all about choosing someone.
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Old 2010-02-13, 10:52   Link #468
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but Alto takes a twist and decides to choose someones instead at the end XD (Actually I don't even remember if Micheal's death is really supposed to push Alto to choose one, well got to rewatch the series sometimes...)

and thanks justinstrife for citing other sources...
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Old 2010-02-13, 14:14   Link #469
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Toilet training is the result of social conditioning, too. I, for one, see the benefit in stain-free carpets.

@cheesie: I'm surprised that nobody else noticed. It wasn't all that subtle.

@magnus: You defined "stupid moe", rather than "moe". The choice of words implies that there is a distinction between the two.

Semantics aside, even if I agree to your definition (for the sake of the argument), then Kawamori isn't actually critiquing anything by portraying a moe character as incompetent. So either way, I don't know what Crusader was on about.

I agree that Klan x Michael was given a veneer of depth. My point was that it lacked actual depth.

Also, you're still on ME2? Slowpoke.

@justavisitor: I'm not sure why people think that if a protagonist fails to explicitly confess their feelings to any love interest, it's safe to assume that they've entered into a polygamous relationship. If you were planning on dating two girls at the same time, wouldn't the first step be to ask them both out? Otherwise, you're not even in one romantic relationship, let alone two.

Michael was constantly pushing Alto to make his feelings clear to the girls (whatever those feelings may be) before it was too late. Irrespective of what pairing combination you support (AxR, SxA, RxS, or SxAxR), that isn't something that he did explicitly during the series (or at least, not explicitly enough for the audience).
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Old 2010-02-13, 15:50   Link #470
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but Alto calls out "you are both my wings" in front of two girls lol (I know, it's that quote again), of course ppl will have different interpretation on that quote, but at the very least, that quote is very useful for ppl who support polygamous relationship

I don't particular support polygamy, but I have no problem accepting it in macross frontier...tho I got to admit that I don't think Ranka and Sheryl like that idea..it will take Alto considerable period of time to convince them Best of luck Alto
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Old 2010-02-13, 17:56   Link #471
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@magnus: You defined "stupid moe", rather than "moe". The choice of words implies that there is a distinction between the two.

Semantics aside, even if I agree to your definition (for the sake of the argument), then Kawamori isn't actually critiquing anything by portraying a moe character as incompetent. So either way, I don't know what Crusader was on about.
I understood it perfectly. Ranka, who is moe, is given huge responsibility and crumbles under the weight, because she couldn't carry the responsibility given to her. Being moe therefore is not enough to weather adversities, you got to grow up and make grown-up decisions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swampstorm View Post
I agree that Klan x Michael was given a veneer of depth. My point was that it lacked actual depth.
Agreed. They were clearly secondary characters.

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Originally Posted by Swampstorm View Post
Also, you're still on ME2? Slowpoke.
Second playthrough just finished. Also, I played a whole ME1 game just for this second one, so that my paragon Shepard would go into the second game without having a prior relationship. Tali 4ever!

And, wow, does the Vanguard play ever more exciting than the Soldier. Highly recommended, after you get the hang of charging smartly, it is a vastly improved game experience, much more kinetic combat than the constant shoot-go behind cover-shoot of the Soldier.
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Old 2010-02-13, 18:44   Link #472
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Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
but Alto takes a twist and decides to choose someones instead at the end XD (Actually I don't even remember if Micheal's death is really supposed to push Alto to choose one, well got to rewatch the series sometimes...)

and thanks justinstrife for citing other sources...

http://www.dennisprager.com/

http://stores.dennisprager.com/Merch..._Code=DPMSN-CD

I'm having a difficult time finding articles but I know they are out there. I've been listening to his radio program for at least 9 years and have rarely been in disagreement with him.
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Old 2010-02-13, 22:28   Link #473
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Once again, a big thank you to justinstrife for those info
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Old 2010-02-14, 13:42   Link #474
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I wouldn't be so against a polygamous ending, if two things had happened.

1) It Sheryl wasn't so deserving of finding that stable love to give her what she had never had. and
2) Ranka had actually done anything to deserve to be in a relationship in the first place.

I've seen plenty of anime where I would support a three person relationship with no issues. This just isn't one of those anime...
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Old 2010-02-15, 20:07   Link #475
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I wouldn't be so against a polygamous ending, if two things had happened.

1) It Sheryl wasn't so deserving of finding that stable love to give her what she had never had. and
2) Ranka had actually done anything to deserve to be in a relationship in the first place.

I've seen plenty of anime where I would support a three person relationship with no issues. This just isn't one of those anime...
I actually agree with you on this, except for one thing: I do support several polyamorous (there's a HUGE difference between polygamy and polyamory) relationships in Macross Frontier, most notably Michel/Klan/Sheryl/Alto foursome (anyone noticed how these four supported each other through the series?).

Yet, I'm unable to support Ranka with anyone in any romantic context. She wants "safe" crushes to admire from a safe distance, every time she makes move on Alto, it's a response to stimuli outside of her and Alto, such as Sheryl, birthdays, Zentradi rebellion and so on, and she forces herself.

And then there's Alto, who got his position in Ranka's life handed to him by her adoptive big brother, only to have it snatched by her biological big brother. Somehow, it felt more like Alto was a big brother figure/safe crush than a viable romantic relationship. Kind of like Yukito for Sakura and Syaoran in Cardcaptor Sakura.
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Old 2010-02-16, 17:47   Link #476
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Irisiel I couldn't agree more with you on that.

I support from the very first moment that Alto was like a brother figurine fo Ranka, he had to take the responsibility for her since it was a duty passed dowb from her brother...But that thing got away when Brera appeared...

Anyway I think that Alto and Ranka don't fit each other as they don'thave the kind of aura that Sheryl and Alto emit when they are together...
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Old 2010-03-05, 21:22   Link #477
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eto...tiptoeing back into this thread with a snippet from Kawamori-sensei's appearance on the radio show. Although 99th and 100th radio shows were promoted as "100 questions: 100 answers"...there weren't very many in the 99th show. But they did ask a very important question about 20 minutes in. Nakamura Yuuichi (Alto) brought up the issue of Alto's "You are both my wings"...

"Why did he say that so strongly at the end of the TV series?"

And Kawamori-sensei's reply goes along the lines of...
He's not saying that anything about like/dislike. All he's saying is that he trusts them both. It has nothing to do with whether he likes them romantically or not. [Who thought that line up?] That would have been Yoshino (the writer). As for his feelings...that's something that's hidden. He feels whatever it is that he feels...

This is Kawamori-sensei though, well known for being evasive, so take from this what you will.

p.s. after that, I was too distracted to pay attention to any other questions that may have been asked, but I'll listen again sometime soonish. Will also get round to the 100th episode. They can be found here if you want to listen yourselves...or on nico nico. I'm not certain, but you may not be able to listen from the website if you're overseas...
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Old 2010-03-05, 21:33   Link #478
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Well that certainly obliterates the thought of "You are both my wings!" being in the romantic context (finally).

Thank you very much!
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Old 2010-03-05, 21:38   Link #479
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eto...tiptoeing back into this thread with a snippet from Kawamori-sensei's appearance on the radio show. Although 99th and 100th radio shows were promoted as "100 questions: 100 answers"...there weren't very many in the 99th show. But they did ask a very important question about 20 minutes in. Nakamura Yuuichi (Alto) brought up the issue of Alto's "You are both my wings"...

"Why did he say that so strongly at the end of the TV series?"

And Kawamori-sensei's reply goes along the lines of...
He's not saying that anything about like/dislike. All he's saying is that he trusts them both. It has nothing to do with whether he likes them romantically or not. [Who thought that line up?] That would have been Yoshino (the writer). As for his feelings...that's something that's hidden. He feels whatever it is that he feels...

This is Kawamori-sensei though, well known for being evasive, so take from this what you will.

p.s. after that, I was too distracted to pay attention to any other questions that may have been asked, but I'll listen again sometime soonish. Will also get round to the 100th episode. They can be found here if you want to listen yourselves...or on nico nico. I'm not certain, but you may not be able to listen from the website if you're overseas...
Very interesting indeed but of course that still doesn't resolve arguably the most important question for most of the MF fans. Either way, thanks for taking the time and updating us.
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Old 2010-03-05, 21:48   Link #480
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When was that 100th radio show originally broadcast?? I would imagine that show was aired long long time ago??

Well anyway, it would be interesting to see whether we will have that quote again in the second movie XD

thanks for the info tho, karice67!!
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To all old and new Sheryl fans:
I am a Ranka fan and I have significant experience in defending various "crimes" committed by Ranka, from her evil plan to terminate human races, to feeding inapporiate food to unknown lifeforms. If you think you find "new" charges aginst Ranka and you are interested, or you care to see how a particular Ranka fan would respond, please feel free to check my previous comment. There is a good chance that I have answered a similiar issue. And of course, my viewpoints do not necessarily represent other perspectivs from numerous Ranka fans in this planet
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