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View Poll Results: Which type of subs do you like the most
Freely translated and good english 27 35.53%
most accurate and near to the original 40 52.63%
minimalistic ones 2 2.63%
I don't care all i understand is fine 6 7.89%
is there a way to tell oO 1 1.32%
Voters: 76. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2010-03-05, 02:24   Link #61
Proto
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Quote:
it's all in how quickly you say the word
So official pronunciations derive from tongue twister contests or something?

From the wikipedia article on Hepburn

Quote:
In Japan itself, there are three variants officially mandated for various uses:
Railway Standard (鉄道掲示基準規程) [2], in which the rendering of syllabic n as m before b, m, p is used. All JR railways and other major railways use this type for station names.
Ministry of Foreign Affairs standard (外務省旅券規定) [3], which explicitly allows the use of "non-Hepburn romaji" (非ヘボン式ローマ字 hi-hebon-shiki rōmaji?) in personal names, notably for passports. In particular, rendering the syllabic n as m before b, m, p, and romanizing long o as any of oh, oo or ou (e.g. any of Satoh, Satoo or Satou for 佐藤) is permitted.
Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport standard [4] in which the rendering of syllabic n as m before certain consonants is not used. This is used for road signs.
In the end it comes down to what a particular person was taught. Don't fret over it. Romanization was just created for us foreigners convenience. It does not represent in any way exactitude with the Japanese language.
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Old 2010-03-05, 02:59   Link #62
Raiga
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Originally Posted by Chiibi View Post
I don't really agree.....it's all in how quickly you say the word. You can say it fast and still get the right sound even with "n".
I wrote a lengthy explanation about this back on page 1, actually.

Personally, I'm just trying to avoid romaji and think in kana instead. When I type, I try to ignore the actual letters and just have them be the hand motions I need to get the right character. Easier said than done, of course. :P
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Old 2010-03-05, 03:17   Link #63
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Originally Posted by Proto View Post
In the end it comes down to what a particular person was taught. Don't fret over it. Romanization was just created for us foreigners convenience. It does not represent in any way exactitude with the Japanese language.
Apparently, some people are really touchy about this. I got neg-rep for my senNpai comment in my first post back on page one. Something about being an idiot for not knowing romanization.

Oh well, I admitted my ignorance and now consider myself the wiser, thanks to those who kindly explained it.
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Old 2010-03-05, 20:08   Link #64
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I got neg-rep for my senNpai comment in my first post back on page one. Something about being an idiot for not knowing romanization
Ignore that moron....because I GOT neg-repped for saying I don't like fansubs that leave off honorifics. Jerks..........all of them. In fact, I think neg rep should be disabled for EVERYONE. It's so offensive. Keep the good rep option. The only thing neg rep does is offend people! What's the bloody point!?
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Old 2010-03-05, 20:34   Link #65
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The fansubbers who tend to be the touchiest and negrep-ready also tend to be the ones with the most infracting behavior. *Good* translators/editors know its an arty thing with many shades of 'right'.

The only time negrep annoys me is when the reason is blank or incomprehensible babble -- they've accomplished nothing because they failed to communicate what bothered them.

But yeah.... its not very productive to negrep when it would make more sense to actually POST what they think and on what basis they think that way.

edit: again - I say its pointless and stupid to negrep when it makes more sense to post and discuss. Frankly, the anonymous coward (to borrow a slashdot term) isn't contributing at all to the discussion. To the anonymous coward: Fine, "you're not a fansubber", so what? You're not providing any useful discussion or reasoning and just seems to be afraid to actually discuss the topic. Therefore, your opinion is irrelevant.
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Old 2010-03-05, 20:48   Link #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post

The only time negrep annoys me is when the reason is blank or incomprehensible babble -- they've accomplished nothing because they failed to communicate what bothered them.
I wasn't aware there were any other types of neg rep. It's pretty funny there's people that have to insult people anonymously over the internets-- as if the internet wasn't anonymous enough.

edit: awesome. That didn't take long to neg rep me. At least it was a word. Progress is slow I know.
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Old 2010-03-05, 21:38   Link #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiibi View Post
Ignore that moron....because I GOT neg-repped for saying I don't like fansubs that leave off honorifics. Jerks..........all of them. In fact, I think neg rep should be disabled for EVERYONE. It's so offensive. Keep the good rep option. The only thing neg rep does is offend people! What's the bloody point!?
I used to see neg-rep as perhaps being a good guard against people starting flamewars, or engaging in genuinely trollish behavior.

However, most of the recent neg-reps I've received (including some on this thread) feels like I've received them simply for holding a honest difference of opinion.

If some people prefer liberally translated subs, then that's fine. I'm just giving my opinion on what I like in subs, and why I like it. Everybody here should be free to do that, and not have to worry about neg reps simply for presenting honest opinions in a civil way.

Perhaps I was a bit too aggressive or unclear in some of my arguments, but I still don't think I wrote something that was downright flaming, or trollish, on this thread.


Maybe the cons of the neg rep system outweighs the pros.

In fact, I'm starting to think they do, since I half-think I'm going to get a neg rep simply for making this post.
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Old 2010-03-05, 21:48   Link #68
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For some reason, I usually get them in posts I put more effort in, never when I'm trying to be a jerk.

Folks, I wouldn't worry too much about neg repping. Basically it just means you have an opinion. You should be glad that you recieve any kind of reputation because your post was able to trigger a reaction in someone, whether it was good or bad. And if people have a problem with you having an opinion, well, they can go fuck themselves. *

*Assuming you put a reasonable amount of effort to express your opinion in a respectful manner; goes without saying.

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Old 2010-03-05, 22:45   Link #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple R
I'm just giving my opinion on what I like in subs, and why I like it. Everybody here should be free to do that, and not have to worry about neg reps simply for presenting honest opinions in a civil way.
I KNOW, HUH. >_<

Quote:
You should be glad that you recieve any kind of reputation because your post was able to trigger a reaction in someone, whether it was good or bad.
That's true....I suppose I should rejoice that I can piss people off enough to act so immature....

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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
And if people have a problem with you having an opinion, well, they can go fuck themselves.
Amen to that.
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Old 2010-03-05, 23:47   Link #70
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Good English and accuracy is ideal... I guess if I had to choose one, accuracy would be it.
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Old 2010-03-06, 03:27   Link #71
Marcus H.
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The commotion in his topic happened when people began to attack the other options, and thus indirectly attack those who voted for it.

But anyway, everyone's entitled to voice out their opinions, right?
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Old 2010-03-06, 10:10   Link #72
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I didn't use to care that much, but after picking up various meanings, loose translations have started bugging me, so I prefer them to be as accurate as possible, and for god's sake without the translator's comments in brackets, I can't read a paragraph in 2 seconds.

Spoiler for example:
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Old 2010-03-06, 10:26   Link #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kafriel View Post
I didn't use to care that much, but after picking up various meanings, loose translations have started bugging me, so I prefer them to be as accurate as possible, and for god's sake without the translator's comments in brackets, I can't read a paragraph in 2 seconds.

Spoiler for example:
That's "WDTV"'s problem, not the subbers.

It sounds like they're using the sub scripts ripped from crunchyroll, but not displaying them correctly.

Anything in { } is a comment meant for internal communication with my editor, and shouldn't be displayed at all according to the ssa/ass standard.
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Old 2010-03-06, 10:41   Link #74
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Oh, alright then, gotta keep that in mind
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Old 2010-03-06, 12:15   Link #75
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about that n m issue in せんぱい i'def. for n ^^ but i guess i'm from germany and the german pronounciation for m is WAY too stron for sempai its like no word in japanese *g* ^^

and if they dont care about also how to teaching somethink thats near the input format they could acually directly stop using romanji and hepburn shit and use something that really teaches you the spelling like Phonetic transcription (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoneti...tional_systems)
but i guess it's only a standdard for europe !?

#German Lautschrift
LautĚschrift, Plural: LautĚschrifĚten
IPA: [ˈlaʊ̯tʃʀɪft], Plural: [ˈlaʊ̯tˌʃʀɪftn̩]
# Englisch: [1] phonetic script → en
# Japanisch: [1] 表音字母 (ひょうおんじぼ, hyōonjibo) → ja, 表音文字 (ひょうおんもじ, hy˘on moji) → ja
(lol its an irony they dont use it in wikitionary and instead use hepburn ^^ lol)

at least nobody would mislead this shit [ˈlaʊ̯tʃʀɪft] with the inputing format *g* ^^

anyway my personal opinion i think the only usefull thing about romanji is that it is close to the input format to look em up in diicitonarys and type them in an early learning state, because the standarts are only close to the spelling if youre english speaker. For different languages like german i saw some old japanese books wich different romanization more close for german seakers (althoug it was only 2 chars it showed how imperfect this system really is for spelling, german is still very close to english but imagine russian or polish or italian ...) and in newer books i saw a looong explanation how the fuck i spell the alphabet i already know but for romanji^^ with ponetic transcripts so expect for giving hints how to input its obsolete ^^ why learn the alphabet anew instead of learning direktly a pronounciation description language (i guess yeah i'm a computer scinentis afer all ^^)
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Old 2010-03-08, 12:36   Link #76
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Romaji topic is drifting from thread topic.... but people should remember that all phonetic scripts (no matter what kind) are *approximations* of the sounds they reference. If it is a NATIVE phonetic script, its closer on the mark - if its a FOREIGN phonetic script, it is simply not going to be as good at documenting the sounds. Learning a foreign language using your own phonetic script is a crutch (or training wheels), one to be dropped as soon as possible if used at all.

As for the topic, its perfectly possible to have "good English" and an "accurate translation" (not one of the choices in the poll) -- professional translators do it all the time. Fan translators *can* have the advantage that they care a lot about the series in question and sometimes do a better job of translating each character's style of speech in the spirit of the original. But really - if they don't care about the series, I'd rather see them not take it on in the first place.
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Old 2010-03-08, 13:07   Link #77
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Localizations trump translations. Now I don't agree with over-localizing (which happened in some early dubs, where the names of people, places and things were Americanized) but if a literal translation of a line sounds awkward in English, then make it sound not-awkward.

What really burns me up is when I see commercial subs that are riddled with spelling errors, code errors and other issues. Seriously, do commercial subbers have no QA department?

Last week I ripped my DVD copy of Solty Rei to H264 so I could watch it on my netbook, but before I could stick them in MKVs I had to pull every script into Aegisub and fix tons of errors. (Plus the original subbers used a font I didn't like and the placement was too high on the video frame, so I had to deal with that, too)...
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Old 2010-03-08, 14:03   Link #78
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"Make it sound not awkward" as Synaesthetic put it is probably a good rule of thumb You want to make sure that the line means the same thing, but you shouldn't be trying to copy the exact syntax.

Of course, some translation issues aren't that simple to solve. For example, a.f.k. translating moe as "turn ons" in their Haruhi 2006 fansubs. I've heard at least one blogger theorize that this is one of the main reasons why so many western anime fans think moe is sexual. On the flip side, I'm not sure how I'd suggest translating it. Even if you were willing to include a translator's note - which a.f.k. always tries to avoid - you can't really explain moe in one line.
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Old 2010-03-08, 16:56   Link #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
Localizations trump translations. Now I don't agree with over-localizing (which happened in some early dubs, where the names of people, places and things were Americanized) but if a literal translation of a line sounds awkward in English, then make it sound not-awkward.

What really burns me up is when I see commercial subs that are riddled with spelling errors, code errors and other issues. Seriously, do commercial subbers have no QA department?
Oh I know!! It's ridiculous....Viz-released DVDs AND manga also have tons of errors, seriously, it's called "PROOFREADING", people!!

With stuff like that, it's no wonder some only prefer fansubs. Because that way you know that the fans who are subbing care enough about the characters to actually make sure they spell names correctly!!
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Old 2010-03-08, 18:06   Link #80
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Aye... "commercial" has almost no correspondence to "professional" in a great many fields, much less subtitling foreign works. Considering the fast turn-around, what many fansubbers do is astounding compared to "six month long professional" projects on the same material.

Fansubs also have a small inherent advantage in that DVD standard-compliant subtitling is incredibly primitive compared to what can be done in fansubs these days.
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