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Old 2010-03-05, 18:16   Link #1161
KoiYuki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErenselTheJester View Post
Good point, but I think we should hold off the "Representation" theory for later, at least until we figure out who Beatrice is.
Well, the point of the representations was to narrow down the list of who could be Beatrice, for me..
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Old 2010-03-06, 00:40   Link #1162
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I just started studying poetry in english, and noticed the similarities between Umineko and one of Dante's works, so I was wondering if anyone has any type of theory or anything of that sort relating to it? Sorry if this has already been discussed (probably has).
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Old 2010-03-06, 00:46   Link #1163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChibiBear View Post
I just started studying poetry in english, and noticed the similarities between Umineko and one of Dante's works, so I was wondering if anyone has any type of theory or anything of that sort relating to it? Sorry if this has already been discussed (probably has).
Some of the characters names are based off of the divine comedy yes. Most notably Beatrice and Virgilia, with Virgilia being a feminine equivilent to Virgil. I don't really think there are any other similarities to it, though correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old 2010-03-06, 00:51   Link #1164
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Okay, thanks! I was just making sure ^^
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Old 2010-03-06, 08:20   Link #1165
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the only other references I can think of are:

"Purgatorio", which is the second book of the divine comedy and narrates Dante's travel through the purgatory. In the novel it appears at the end of EP1 when introducing the meta-world for the first time.

Then there is Virgilia that explains she takes that name because Virgil is the one that guides (Dante) toward Beatrice who is waiting at the summit of mount purgatory. This is the only clear reference to the divine comedy itself.
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Old 2010-03-07, 08:00   Link #1166
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Well, I need help for Episode 1. The Letter Mystery is hard and its difficult to tackle down who did it. Everything else I have good theories for.
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Old 2010-03-08, 00:03   Link #1167
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Well as I said in the other spoilers and speculations thread. I'm of the theory at this time that there is one big Eva/Rosa team up going on.

If what happened in episode 3 is true to every game, and Eva along with Rosa found the gold. Then it could be argued that they teamed up to kill everyone else to keep it for themselves.

If you look at the first 6 murders. One or the other is always missing. It could also be argued that the body of the other is a fake, and that Eva/Rosa is disguised during that time.

Rosa would be the one who draws the magic circles on the doors, and sets things up to look like the witch did it. This would explain Maria's attitude in claiming that a "witch" killed them. Especially during the murder in episode 1 where Maria stood against the wall singing. She would also know about Maria's lucky charms as well. In this way that's why Natsuhi wasn't targeted in the first game when she had it on her door.

As for Eva allowing George and Hideyoshi to be killed. Well why not? Eva-Beatrice seemed to show Eva's true thoughts on Hideyoshi. As much as she wants to claim that he's wonderful the fact is that she thinks he's a complete fool, but the main reason for her to kill her family is I believe the whole deal with Shannon. She knows about George's little relationship with her, and she loves to control people. Hideyoshi sided with George on the matter, and when the both confronted her she snapped and killed them.

As for why they end up dead anyways by the end of each game? Well is it really that strange that they would plan to backstab each other when everyone else is gone?

It may be just a red herring, but those two are definitely the most suspicious. They have motive and there's too much coincidental evidence pointing the both of them to the crime, and since Beatrice claims there has to be more than one person during most of the crimes. It makes sense if two people are in on it.
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Old 2010-03-08, 03:00   Link #1168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aethos View Post
Rosa would be the one who draws the magic circles on the doors, and sets things up to look like the witch did it. This would explain Maria's attitude in claiming that a "witch" killed them. Especially during the murder in episode 1 where Maria stood against the wall singing. She would also know about Maria's lucky charms as well. In this way that's why Natsuhi wasn't targeted in the first game when she had it on her door.
This would require them to be able to see the inside of Natsuhi's door after she'd locked it, wouldn't it?
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Old 2010-03-08, 09:20   Link #1169
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It doesn't make sense that the killer would let Natsuhi live over the matter of the bracelet. The killer would have to notice the bracelet before killing Natsuhi. If s/he had taken the bracelet off the doorknob and put it on the dresser, Jessica would have assumed that Natsuhi had simply accepted it to be nice and never even put it on the doorknob in the first place.

Besides, when else has the killer gone after a person who wasn't at least active?
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Old 2010-03-08, 18:58   Link #1170
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Originally Posted by Aebliss View Post
This would require them to be able to see the inside of Natsuhi's door after she'd locked it, wouldn't it?
Well who's to say they weren't able to open the door? The culprit was able to get into other locked rooms after all. So seeing the charm doesn't sound strange at all. In fact not attacking Natsuhi cause of the charm is what makes it more suspicious.
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Old 2010-03-08, 19:16   Link #1171
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Getting into Natsuhi's room would be easy. Both Shannon and Gohda had master keys.
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Old 2010-03-08, 23:45   Link #1172
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Originally Posted by ErenselTheJester View Post
Well, I need help for Episode 1. The Letter Mystery is hard and its difficult to tackle down who did it. Everything else I have good theories for.
Without giving too much away in the VN I'll say that it's very unlikely that any of the parents, or Kinzo, who wear the one winged eagle prepared the letters, but any of the servants could have done it. So with that you can narrow it down to those few people. Then you just have to find the motive for any of the individual servants with the one winged eagle to get the necessary things (the letters, the wax, the ring, the legend, and the epitaph) to make them. After that you can solve it very easily. Only a few servants could have access to Kinzo's ring. Once you narrow that down you can find a motive for someone to conspire with them to make the letters.

All the information they need to make the magic circles and the letters exists in Kinzo's room which they have had years of access to. Only one servant needs to be involved though, that's all you need. It doesn't have to be a huge servant murder conspiracy. You just need one servant to be involved with someone to prepare the letters.

Last edited by Judoh; 2010-03-09 at 03:05.
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Old 2010-03-09, 16:06   Link #1173
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I already read the visual novel, so if you have any more information that you're holding back, please PM me, but thanks anyways. For now, I'm supposing that Genji gave Maria the letter.

Last edited by ErenselTheJester; 2010-03-09 at 16:17.
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Old 2010-03-12, 11:21   Link #1174
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I've found another reference to the divine comedy, I realized it just now:



In order to get to Beatrice you need to pass through the seven sins first. And the order of the sins (starting from the bottom) is exactly the same order of age from the eldest to the youngest of the seven sisters of the purgatory.
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Old 2010-03-14, 05:01   Link #1175
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I think Kinzo makes a reference to Cocytus at some point, a river in Hell in The Divine Comedy.
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Old 2010-03-14, 05:18   Link #1176
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Cool, so maybe it could be a clue I'm gonna ask my english teacher about Dante a bit more the next time I see her to see if there's anything else ^^
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Old 2010-03-18, 19:13   Link #1177
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Soo, this is completely unrelated to what anyone is saying, but I've been thinking about the first round, or game, or completion of the epitaph, or whatever you wanna call it. I tried to find ways to deny the use of magic in the deaths~

Spoiler for Potential first few anime episodes spoiler:


Not the best, I might try and solve the other deaths in that round too~
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Old 2010-03-19, 14:21   Link #1178
ErenselTheJester
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Natsuhi was downstairs with Battler when the murders happened, so she couldn't have done it.
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Old 2010-03-20, 13:21   Link #1179
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Originally Posted by ErenselTheJester View Post
Natsuhi was downstairs with Battler when the murders happened, so she couldn't have done it.


Maybe she had someone else do it for her?
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Old 2010-03-22, 14:34   Link #1180
ErenselTheJester
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Well, you have to think who was there and who wasn't there. The only people, however, that weren't accounted for were the dead, so its safe to assume that one of the first six deaths were fake.
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