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Old 2009-09-15, 13:52   Link #141
GMT
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Originally Posted by Tornadium View Post
Heh true,

He basically does have God wrapped around his finger.
But he can't invoke God without all the fallout and the messes that would be made by invoking Her.

He does, however, have
Spoiler:
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Old 2009-09-15, 13:55   Link #142
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Originally Posted by GMT View Post
But he can't invoke God without all the fallout and the messes that would be made by invoking Her.

He does, however, have
Spoiler:
Yuki is the first like of Defence i think for the SOS Brigade.

Haruhi and Kyon are the last bastion and possible hope. If Nagato falters it's down to both of them.

It may be possible for a good outcome to come with Kyon invoking her if he can calm her enough (TMoHS Episode 6 anyone?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
He's got time (or history) on his side...usually. Two reality warpers, and a guy with an orginization behind him. Plus other backup.
That raises a very good point, Do you think the rest of the SOS brigade (Including
Young and old Mikuru) know what is going to happen?
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Old 2009-09-15, 14:06   Link #143
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Originally Posted by Tornadium View Post
Yuki is the first like of Defence i think for the SOS Brigade.

Haruhi and Kyon are the last bastion and possible hope. If Nagato falters it's down to both of them.

It may be possible for a good outcome to come with Kyon invoking her if he can calm her enough (TMoHS Episode 6 anyone?)
This would require Kyon completely shedding his denial about his feelings towards Haruhi, since he can't very well just kiss her again. He's going to have to raise the bar well above what he did at the end of Melancholy, and neither Kyon nor Haruhi seem like the sort of people who would be satisfied with a spot of awkward teenage sex.

Quote:
That raises a very good point, Do you think the rest of the SOS brigade (Including Young and old Mikuru) know what is going to happen?
Little Mikuru is like a mushroom, kept in the dark and fed bullsh . . . manure.
Spoiler:
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Old 2009-09-15, 14:08   Link #144
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Originally Posted by GMT View Post
This would require Kyon completely shedding his denial about his feelings towards Haruhi, since he can't very well just kiss her again. He's going to have to raise the bar well above what he did at the end of Melancholy, and neither Kyon nor Haruhi seem like the sort of people who would be satisfied with a spot of awkward teenage sex.
Spoiler:


Quote:
Little Mikuru is like a mushroom, kept in the dark and fed bullsh . . . manure.
Spoiler:

Spoiler:
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Old 2009-09-15, 19:23   Link #145
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... We're talking about Kyon here, now?
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... well... at least it's written the same...
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Old 2009-09-16, 03:55   Link #146
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Ahh, the drifting of forum threads.

Just like how magnets drift apart.

GET BACK AWN TOPIC *remagnetises topic*

But yes, Lil' Asahina is kept in the dark about a lot of stuff.
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Old 2009-09-16, 17:52   Link #147
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i like mikuru she is nice
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Old 2009-09-16, 18:00   Link #148
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I hear she tastes delicious. Haruhi and Nagato seem to enjoy nibbling on her, at any rate.
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... well... at least it's written the same...
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Old 2009-09-17, 11:08   Link #149
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Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane View Post
I hear she tastes delicious. Haruhi and Nagato seem to enjoy nibbling on her, at any rate.
Ear biting scene = cute.

Answer my question!
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Old 2009-09-23, 23:03   Link #150
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Originally Posted by Tornadium View Post
That raises a very good point, Do you think the rest of the SOS brigade (Including Young and old Mikuru) know what is going to happen?
Finally a somewhat on-topic question.

Kyon: Depends upon whether you believe his narration is a live running commentary or a post-storyline retelling. There are arguments for both.
Haruhi: Hasn't a clue. Her subconscious, however, could be actively controlling nearly everything.
Yuki: Has a rough idea, I think, but is actively avoiding synchronizing with her future selves, so she's only open to seeing what she gets from her extranormal senses and her partially out-of-time existence. In other words, she has little warning of anything Haruhi might do.
Itsuki: His Organization has feelers anywhere (his discrediting of Mikuru—right after Mikuru secretly did the same to him—proved that, if nothing else), so they probably have an inkling of what the other organizations know, but not much more, unless their "army" of espers includes some precogs.

Mikuru(small): She knows what she has been told, which is at best vague and at worst misleading. The mushroom analogy is a good one, as she is kept in the dark about most things, starting with the lie that her time travel can't change history.
Mikuru(big): No doubt knows explicitly what got her to this point, since she already lived though it. One can assume that eveything has happened keikaku doori, since she's still around, but she's well aware that that could change.
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Old 2010-03-14, 19:41   Link #151
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Originally Posted by quigonkenny View Post
Mikuru(small): She knows what she has been told, which is at best vague and at worst misleading. The mushroom analogy is a good one, as she is kept in the dark about most things, starting with the lie that her time travel can't change history.
Didn't Mikuru say that, when she first time-traveled back to the "present" time plane, her superiors put some kind of block on her mind so she can't reveal how time travel works, what happens in the future, etc.?
So maybe she does know, she just...doesn't know. You know?
She knows that she knows, but she just can't retrieve the information.

I could be wrong about this.
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Old 2010-03-15, 00:16   Link #152
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Originally Posted by Luminescence View Post
Didn't Mikuru say that, when she first time-traveled back to the "present" time plane, her superiors put some kind of block on her mind so she can't reveal how time travel works, what happens in the future, etc.?
So maybe she does know, she just...doesn't know. You know?
She knows that she knows, but she just can't retrieve the information.

I could be wrong about this.
No, she knows what she knows. The block is on her ability to share that information. I fully believe that if she tried to tell Kyon all the things she knew about time travel, the most he would get would be a string of "kinsoku jikou desu"s, no matter what she wishes to say. That, plus the fact that they obviously haven't told her anything more than what she needs for her mission (and the fact that she's cute), makes her a paradoxically perfect agent.

No pun intended...
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Old 2010-03-15, 00:29   Link #153
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Originally Posted by quigonkenny View Post
...the most he would get would be a string of "kinsoku jikou desu"s, no matter what she wishes to say.
If the "kinsoku jikou desu"s were turned off, Kyon wouldn't understand the techno babble anyway (as proven with Yuki).
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Old 2010-03-15, 12:54   Link #154
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Originally Posted by quigonkenny View Post
No, she knows what she knows. The block is on her ability to share that information. I fully believe that if she tried to tell Kyon all the things she knew about time travel, the most he would get would be a string of "kinsoku jikou desu"s, no matter what she wishes to say. That, plus the fact that they obviously haven't told her anything more than what she needs for her mission (and the fact that she's cute), makes her a paradoxically perfect agent.

No pun intended...
We got exactly this problem during Endless Eight, when she's in tears trying to explain the problem. Which also tells us that even in a blatant emergency situation, the block would remain in place.
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Old 2010-03-15, 14:42   Link #155
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Oh, I see.
I never really understood the time-travellers' business anyways.

As she completes missions and things, her superiors gradually take away some of the blocks, right?
I wonder why they're keeping her in the dark about things...

I can understand how they block the things that she says, so she won't accidentally blurt out the dangerous information, but why can't they at least tell her why she has to do whatever-her-mission-is?
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Old 2010-03-15, 15:34   Link #156
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Oh, I see.
I never really understood the time-travellers' business anyways.

As she completes missions and things, her superiors gradually take away some of the blocks, right?
I wonder why they're keeping her in the dark about things...

I can understand how they block the things that she says, so she won't accidentally blurt out the dangerous information, but why can't they at least tell her why she has to do whatever-her-mission-is?
Because what little knowledge she does have is already incredibly dangerous. Any proactive move she makes—anything from keeping Kyon from jumping into the path of a speeding van to bringing an extra tea set to school because she knows that today's the day they get the new member—can irrevocably change the future as they know it.
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Old 2010-03-15, 15:41   Link #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luminescence View Post
Oh, I see.
I never really understood the time-travellers' business anyways.

As she completes missions and things, her superiors gradually take away some of the blocks, right?
I wonder why they're keeping her in the dark about things...

I can understand how they block the things that she says, so she won't accidentally blurt out the dangerous information, but why can't they at least tell her why she has to do whatever-her-mission-is?
Here is a quote from B-T's translation of novel 9 that may be apt for this discussion (spoiler-tagged as to follow the rules of the thread):
Spoiler:


As for why she's not told about how her actions will affect the future, it's addressed in a future novel (spoiler-tagged):
Spoiler:
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Old 2010-03-16, 20:04   Link #158
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So what we're getting at is that while Mikuru can't be trusted to preform her duties to spec on her own, she (or Kyon) can be manipulated into performing them correctly without her knowledge?

That seems awfully roundabout, though not impossible. I do wonder, based on Mikuru Big's quote from earlier, is the reason her younger self wasn't properly briefed on her mission isn't so much that she can't be allowed to know, but that Kyon can't in order to preserve the preconditions for whichever choice he has to make.

Certainly its been foreshadowed enough earlier that he's pretty much the kingmaker of the drama in earlier incidents, and the latest one outright states it.
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Old 2010-03-16, 21:05   Link #159
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So what we're getting at is that while Mikuru can't be trusted to preform her duties to spec on her own, she (or Kyon) can be manipulated into performing them correctly without her knowledge?

That seems awfully roundabout, though not impossible. I do wonder, based on Mikuru Big's quote from earlier, is the reason her younger self wasn't properly briefed on her mission isn't so much that she can't be allowed to know, but that Kyon can't in order to preserve the preconditions for whichever choice he has to make.

Certainly its been foreshadowed enough earlier that he's pretty much the kingmaker of the drama in earlier incidents, and the latest one outright states it.
I'd say it's more likely that Kyon can't know she knows, and the simplest way to do that is just not to tell her in the first place. If she kinsoku jikou's, he knows there's something she's hiding, and it's easier for her as well if she doesn't have to continually think about what she should or shouldn't be doing.
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Old 2010-04-06, 01:00   Link #160
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i dont like her that much because she has no real roll besides being haruhi's doll while Koizumi deals with closed spaces and Nagato can change things to make haruhi happy
Spoiler for event in episode:
so yea thats why she has no real roll
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