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Old 2010-03-20, 17:35   Link #6201
zodanhko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
As I said, you're misunderstanding this scene. These are only Hina's thoughts, this is NOT what actually happens. She believes that if she plays to her normal potential, Hayate will come to see her as a non-girly wild beast. Therefore she does NOT and rather botches the reception of the ball.
She was asking Hayate a question, and he replied to her. That was no imagination of her because she ACTUALLY did hit the ball before asking him the question, "Am I amazing?"

Edit: Ahh...I re-read it. I guess I was wrong about her being a wild animal.
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Old 2010-03-20, 17:46   Link #6202
Mentar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zodanhko View Post
She was asking Hayate a question, and he replied to her. That was no imagination of her because she ACTUALLY did hit the ball before asking him the question, "Am I amazing?"
No. Look at the left uppermost panel of the first page. Hina starts thinking. "If I do too well, he won't see me as a weak girl anymore." - She then begins to imagine what might happen if she annihilated them, and we see Gilbert and the bot on the floor, battered and _admitting defeat_. Turning to Hayate, wishing to get praised, she imagines him staring at her with cold eyes, calling her a "wild animal". This very thought shocks her so much that she returns from her thoughts with a "!!!" shriek, and subsequently botches the reception.

How do we know that it was just Hina's thoughts? First of all, the game is still ongoing - Gilbert and the bot were not defeated. When Hina played the weak girl, Hayate believed that she might be sick. And what he REALLY thinks of Hina was shown after the match, see THIS page:

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/hayate...er/c224/3.html

And that was even AFTER Hina mauled them with max power. Why would Hayate have such an extreme change of heart?
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Old 2010-03-20, 17:50   Link #6203
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At least, we know in her thoughts that she loved for others to praise her for her accomplishment. Sorry, I don't really pay much details to Hina's chapters. =P
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Old 2010-03-20, 17:59   Link #6204
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Okay, most of this I'm just looking at and thinking 'man, this is so stupid, I don't even wanna reply', but one remark in particular stood put:

Quote:
Originally Posted by musouka View Post
Technically, it's an appliance, not furniture...
Yeah. That just makes it so much better. Really. I'm not being sarcastic at all.
No, seriously, are you guys reading what you're typing?....

I'm also not sure we could even put Hayate's own words about Athena to any good use here; considering how romantically inept he always is, even if he says he loves her most, how do we know he's not just misinterpreting his own feelings or something? I'm not really convinced.
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Old 2010-03-20, 18:25   Link #6205
zodanhko
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If you can find a chapter where he says he loved/loves a girl (any) besides Athena throughout the 264 chapters( I know that's not much), you'll be a legend Neyichigo-san.

Yeah...For all we know, he could be in love with Tama or Klaus, and he doesn't know right. Or Nagi likes Hayate because he resembles her mother and "considering how romantically inept she is." Or Hina loves was false "considering how romantically inept she is." They are beginners, right?

Believe me, Hayate had romantic experiences far greater than those two above. The feelings that started 10 years ago and lasted for 10 years unlike those two who's for some months.
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Old 2010-03-20, 19:16   Link #6206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlassesLady View Post
Yeah. That just makes it so much better. Really. I'm not being sarcastic at all.
No, seriously, are you guys reading what you're typing?....
I'm more worried that you're taking obvious jokes seriously, to be honest. Though maybe that's why you keep on insisting Athena is an abusive nightmare...
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Old 2010-03-20, 19:46   Link #6207
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In terms of being abusive to Hayate, I'll say that Nagi takes the lead by far. Ayumu and Hinagiku are probably the only ones who didn't abuse Hayate.
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Old 2010-03-20, 19:56   Link #6208
Game8910
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion View Post
Hina is the one who heard those words, got it confirmed that Athena was the one he had mentioned there, and yet shows no regret in those words.
I could laugh at this, seriously...

Is that single line of Hina really so important and deep that she herself would have to sit and re-think to herself what she said when she confirmed Athena as Hayate's ex girlfriend? Such an insignificant little spur of the moment line really needs to stop being brought up so often...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion View Post
Most of what we're given of Hayate's relationship with Athena is her attacking him; kicking him in the stomach, attacking him with a lethal sword. A handful of 'neutral' scenes, her teaching him how to be a butler, and another handful of actual affection scenes, asking for a morning kiss. The other scenes are indeterminate.
As opposed to the other girls who's scenes with Hayate are overwhelmingly neutral at worse, while, as a group, the 'abusive' scenes are few and far between and typically no where near the lethal possibility Athena is shown to have.
Its called being a tsundere, you should know of this already.

Quote:
"Most of what we're given of Hayate's relationship with Hinagiku is her yelling at him; attacking him with sticks/weapons (only happened twice in the story so far but since u seem to be mentioning 1 time things in your list I thought I should too), giving him evil auras. A handful of 'neutral' scenes, and scoopful of actual dere dere scenes, asking for a birthday present. The other scenes are indeterminate."
Look how easy that was, I just took your paragraph and changed a couple words here and there and we summed up a lot of Hina/Hayate moments as well.

And the reason other characters dont do the same might just be cause more than half of them are too busy getting near heart attacks just by being close to Hayate :\ (except Ayumu)
Quote:
Originally Posted by GlassesLady View Post
I'm also not sure we could even put Hayate's own words about Athena to any good use here; considering how romantically inept he always is, even if he says he loves her most, how do we know he's not just misinterpreting his own feelings or something? I'm not really convinced.
If you are not willing to accept the words that the actual main character of the story tells you, then you might as well stop reading arguments since its obvious nothing that is said and/or happens on the story will change your already pre-set mind about Athena
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Old 2010-03-20, 20:32   Link #6209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Game8910 View Post
Look how easy that was, I just took your paragraph and changed a couple words here and there and we summed up a lot of Hina/Hayate moments as well.

And the reason other characters dont do the same might just be cause more than half of them are too busy getting near heart attacks just by being close to Hayate :\ (except Ayumu)
I find it amusing that you think changing a few words makes a viable counter-claim. The claim was that Athena attacks with lethal force, while the others' attacks clearly aren't even intended to be lethal.
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Old 2010-03-20, 21:10   Link #6210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion View Post
I find it amusing that you think changing a few words makes a viable counter-claim. The claim was that Athena attacks with lethal force, while the others' attacks clearly aren't even intended to be lethal.
Athena only ever attacked that way due to Midas and not herself, so I wouldn't take that at face value.
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Old 2010-03-20, 21:12   Link #6211
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Originally Posted by aldw View Post
Athena only ever attacked that way due to Midas and not herself, so I wouldn't take that at face value.
So it was Midas who trained Hayate how to use a sword, and Midas who taught him that he had to be financially able to support a girl before he could have a girlfriend?
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Old 2010-03-20, 21:18   Link #6212
zodanhko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion View Post
So it was Midas who trained Hayate how to use a sword, and Midas who taught him that he had to be financially able to support a girl before he could have a girlfriend?
Did you not aware how Athena made the swords break using her magic? So, Hayate could survive. That means Athena NEVER intended to hurt him in the first place which she had always been doing during her training with him.
This "lethal" force was already proven to be wrong the moment Hayate thanks her for going easy on him during their battle.

Midas can surely influenced her which is what Aldw meant.
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Old 2010-03-20, 22:31   Link #6213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion View Post
So it was Midas who trained Hayate how to use a sword, and Midas who taught him that he had to be financially able to support a girl before he could have a girlfriend?
wait are you actually saying that you thought Athena's sword training was her attacking at lethal force? Please dont tell me that what ur trying to say
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Old 2010-03-20, 22:35   Link #6214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Game8910 View Post
wait are you actually saying that you thought Athena's sword training was her attacking at lethal force? Please dont tell me that what ur trying to say
There is a reason bamboo swords exist. They were using real swords. Non-blunted real swords, ones that you wouldn't use for training unless you were training with lethal force.
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Old 2010-03-20, 22:42   Link #6215
zodanhko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion View Post
There is a reason bamboo swords exist. They were using real swords. Non-blunted real swords, ones that you wouldn't use for training unless you were training with lethal force.
OMG! Hayate was so injured after the training that he was still able to kiss Athena and run through the hall of the castle with her under the golden sunlight. To be honest, your statement of her attacking him with such a deadly force during the training was so lethal that I could die of laughter...

They were trained with lethal weapons, not her attacking with lethal force, Bastion-kun. He would be dead otherwise...
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Old 2010-03-20, 22:46   Link #6216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion View Post
There is a reason bamboo swords exist. They were using real swords. Non-blunted real swords, ones that you wouldn't use for training unless you were training with lethal force.
You are wrong! Dojos everywhere use real swords. At high level training, they all use real swords. And real swords can be safe if they are ENHANCED WITH MAGIC, HINT HINT.
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Old 2010-03-21, 04:38   Link #6217
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Originally Posted by babohtea View Post
You are wrong! Dojos everywhere use real swords. At high level training, they all use real swords. And real swords can be safe if they are ENHANCED WITH MAGIC, HINT HINT.
But if the swords are 'safe' it would make it less effective to use even in training or practice since the participants know it's 'safe' and might subconsciously react to that fact as opposed to using a 'real' sword.

Magic = Duct tape?
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Old 2010-03-21, 08:37   Link #6218
leoblack9
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Originally Posted by WhiteWings View Post
But if the swords are 'safe' it would make it less effective to use even in training or practice since the participants know it's 'safe' and might subconsciously react to that fact as opposed to using a 'real' sword.

Magic = Duct tape?
Safe or not safe, its going to hurt, hard. I doubt it taht it gives a psychological edge when against a non-lethal weapon such as a bamboo sword, when it might probably give you more problems such as a broken body part (since any blunt object thrown at you at high speed would definitely hurt) rather than the sword (which would most likely lacerate and well, kill you faster, saving you the pain =D).

Anyway, I haven't seen Hayate go against Hina seriously yet so I've yet to imagine your situation.
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Old 2010-03-21, 10:14   Link #6219
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Actually, real swords behave a little bit differently from bamboo swords. I don't have enough experience regarding it, but trust me, a lot of skilled martial artists would actually be offended if you asked them to spar with a bamboo sword. It's like a "what, you think I'll mess up?" kind of thing.
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Old 2010-03-21, 10:41   Link #6220
zodanhko
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It doesn't really matter what the swords are made of, and too bad for Hayate that Athena could only summon real swords. The strength differences between Athena and Hayate was very clear. She had no problem training Hayate with lethal weapons without hurting him or harming herself. That's just to show her level of mastery which was why Hayate became so efficient in such a short amount of time.
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