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zodanhko · 2010-03-20, 18:25

If you can find a chapter where he says he loved/loves a girl (any) besides Athena throughout the 264 chapters( I know that's not much), you'll be a legend Neyichigo-san.

Yeah...For all we know, he could be in love with Tama or Klaus, and he doesn't know right. Or Nagi likes Hayate because he resembles her mother and "considering how romantically inept she is." Or Hina loves was false "considering how romantically inept she is." They are beginners, right?

Believe me, Hayate had romantic experiences far greater than those two above. The feelings that started 10 years ago and lasted for 10 years unlike those two who's for some months.

musouka · 2010-03-20, 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlassesLady

Yeah. That just makes it so much better. Really. I'm not being sarcastic at all.
No, seriously, are you guys reading what you're typing?....

I'm more worried that you're taking obvious jokes seriously, to be honest. Though maybe that's why you keep on insisting Athena is an abusive nightmare...

Koroshiya_Kame_13 · 2010-03-20, 19:46

In terms of being abusive to Hayate, I'll say that Nagi takes the lead by far. Ayumu and Hinagiku are probably the only ones who didn't abuse Hayate.

Game8910 · 2010-03-20, 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion

Hina is the one who heard those words, got it confirmed that Athena was the one he had mentioned there, and yet shows no regret in those words.

I could laugh at this, seriously...

Is that single line of Hina really so important and deep that she herself would have to sit and re-think to herself what she said when she confirmed Athena as Hayate's ex girlfriend? Such an insignificant little spur of the moment line really needs to stop being brought up so often...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion

Most of what we're given of Hayate's relationship with Athena is her attacking him; kicking him in the stomach, attacking him with a lethal sword. A handful of 'neutral' scenes, her teaching him how to be a butler, and another handful of actual affection scenes, asking for a morning kiss. The other scenes are indeterminate.
As opposed to the other girls who's scenes with Hayate are overwhelmingly neutral at worse, while, as a group, the 'abusive' scenes are few and far between and typically no where near the lethal possibility Athena is shown to have.

Its called being a tsundere, you should know of this already.

Quote:

"Most of what we're given of Hayate's relationship with Hinagiku is her yelling at him; attacking him with sticks/weapons (only happened twice in the story so far but since u seem to be mentioning 1 time things in your list I thought I should too), giving him evil auras. A handful of 'neutral' scenes, and scoopful of actual dere dere scenes, asking for a birthday present. The other scenes are indeterminate."

Look how easy that was, I just took your paragraph and changed a couple words here and there and we summed up a lot of Hina/Hayate moments as well.

And the reason other characters dont do the same might just be cause more than half of them are too busy getting near heart attacks just by being close to Hayate :\ (except Ayumu)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlassesLady

I'm also not sure we could even put Hayate's own words about Athena to any good use here; considering how romantically inept he always is, even if he says he loves her most, how do we know he's not just misinterpreting his own feelings or something? I'm not really convinced.

If you are not willing to accept the words that the actual main character of the story tells you, then you might as well stop reading arguments since its obvious nothing that is said and/or happens on the story will change your already pre-set mind about Athena

Bastion_Arcion · 2010-03-20, 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Game8910

Look how easy that was, I just took your paragraph and changed a couple words here and there and we summed up a lot of Hina/Hayate moments as well.

And the reason other characters dont do the same might just be cause more than half of them are too busy getting near heart attacks just by being close to Hayate :\ (except Ayumu)

I find it amusing that you think changing a few words makes a viable counter-claim. The claim was that Athena attacks with lethal force, while the others' attacks clearly aren't even intended to be lethal.

aldw · 2010-03-20, 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion

I find it amusing that you think changing a few words makes a viable counter-claim. The claim was that Athena attacks with lethal force, while the others' attacks clearly aren't even intended to be lethal.

Athena only ever attacked that way due to Midas and not herself, so I wouldn't take that at face value.

Bastion_Arcion · 2010-03-20, 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by aldw

Athena only ever attacked that way due to Midas and not herself, so I wouldn't take that at face value.

So it was Midas who trained Hayate how to use a sword, and Midas who taught him that he had to be financially able to support a girl before he could have a girlfriend?

zodanhko · 2010-03-20, 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion

So it was Midas who trained Hayate how to use a sword, and Midas who taught him that he had to be financially able to support a girl before he could have a girlfriend?

Did you not aware how Athena made the swords break using her magic? So, Hayate could survive. That means Athena NEVER intended to hurt him in the first place which she had always been doing during her training with him.
This "lethal" force was already proven to be wrong the moment Hayate thanks her for going easy on him during their battle.

Midas can surely influenced her which is what Aldw meant.

Game8910 · 2010-03-20, 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion

So it was Midas who trained Hayate how to use a sword, and Midas who taught him that he had to be financially able to support a girl before he could have a girlfriend?

wait are you actually saying that you thought Athena's sword training was her attacking at lethal force?

Please dont tell me that what ur trying to say

Bastion_Arcion · 2010-03-20, 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Game8910

wait are you actually saying that you thought Athena's sword training was her attacking at lethal force?

Please dont tell me that what ur trying to say

There is a reason bamboo swords exist. They were using real swords. Non-blunted real swords, ones that you wouldn't use for training unless you were training with lethal force.

zodanhko · 2010-03-20, 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion

There is a reason bamboo swords exist. They were using real swords. Non-blunted real swords, ones that you wouldn't use for training unless you were training with lethal force.

OMG! Hayate was so injured after the training that he was still able to kiss Athena and run through the hall of the castle with her under the golden sunlight. To be honest, your statement of her attacking him with such a deadly force during the training was so lethal that I could die of laughter...

They were trained with lethal weapons, not her attacking with lethal force, Bastion-kun. He would be dead otherwise...

babohtea · 2010-03-20, 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion

There is a reason bamboo swords exist. They were using real swords. Non-blunted real swords, ones that you wouldn't use for training unless you were training with lethal force.

You are wrong! Dojos everywhere use real swords. At high level training, they all use real swords. And real swords can be safe if they are ENHANCED WITH MAGIC, HINT HINT.

WhiteWings · 2010-03-21, 04:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by babohtea

You are wrong! Dojos everywhere use real swords. At high level training, they all use real swords. And real swords can be safe if they are ENHANCED WITH MAGIC, HINT HINT.

But if the swords are 'safe' it would make it less effective to use even in training or practice since the participants know it's 'safe' and might subconsciously react to that fact as opposed to using a 'real' sword.

Magic = Duct tape?

leoblack9 · 2010-03-21, 08:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteWings

But if the swords are 'safe' it would make it less effective to use even in training or practice since the participants know it's 'safe' and might subconsciously react to that fact as opposed to using a 'real' sword.

Magic = Duct tape?

Safe or not safe, its going to hurt, hard. I doubt it taht it gives a psychological edge when against a non-lethal weapon such as a bamboo sword, when it might probably give you more problems such as a broken body part (since any blunt object thrown at you at high speed would definitely hurt) rather than the sword (which would most likely lacerate and well, kill you faster, saving you the pain =D).

Anyway, I haven't seen Hayate go against Hina seriously yet so I've yet to imagine your situation.

babohtea · 2010-03-21, 10:14

Actually, real swords behave a little bit differently from bamboo swords. I don't have enough experience regarding it, but trust me, a lot of skilled martial artists would actually be offended if you asked them to spar with a bamboo sword. It's like a "what, you think I'll mess up?" kind of thing.

zodanhko · 2010-03-21, 10:41

It doesn't really matter what the swords are made of, and too bad for Hayate that Athena could only summon real swords. The strength differences between Athena and Hayate was very clear. She had no problem training Hayate with lethal weapons without hurting him or harming herself. That's just to show her level of mastery which was why Hayate became so efficient in such a short amount of time.

ridgezipline · 2010-03-21, 10:48

hello!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion

We didn't get any true indication that she actually loved Hayate until recently, during the entire EotW arc she never actually says the words.
Kicking someone in the stomach and then when they complain about it calling it the pain of love? Sure, sounds like she loves him a lot.

you're looking at that aspect waaaay too much..
kissing and flirting suggest she likes him a lot, if you dont want to call it love

Quote:

Originally Posted by Game8910

I could laugh at this, seriously...

Is that single line of Hina really so important and deep that she herself would have to sit and re-think to herself what she said when she confirmed Athena as Hayate's ex girlfriend? Such an insignificant little spur of the moment line really needs to stop being brought up so often...

yep, at that moment it becomes too trivial a detail if the person you like just confessed the he's been in love with someone else for 10 years...

babohtea · 2010-03-21, 10:53

What line from Hina are we talking about, here?

I don't think little kids can eloquently describe their love. I mean, even to their parents you get stuff like "MY BESTEST DAD". XD

Game8910 · 2010-03-21, 11:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by babohtea

What line from Hina are we talking about, here?

I don't think little kids can eloquently describe their love. I mean, even to their parents you get stuff like "MY BESTEST DAD". XD

her saying "So that little witch is the reason for his twisted mentality" back when Hayate explained to them about how he cant get a girlfriend if he isnt financially reliable.

I really dont understand why such a line which was obviously meant as a joke almost 100 chapters before Athena enters the picture keeps being brought up by people when they try to make arguments against Athena and Hayate's relationship...oh well I guess digging through anything is valid in these things

ridgezipline · 2010-03-21, 11:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by babohtea

What line from Hina are we talking about, here?

I don't think little kids can eloquently describe their love. I mean, even to their parents you get stuff like "MY BESTEST DAD". XD

the one where hina refer athena as a 'witch' (i think o_o)

yep most kids are just trying to identify what their feelings are, but they are capable of expressing them well in their own ways

2010-03-21, 10:14	Link #6235
babohtea Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009	Actually, real swords behave a little bit differently from bamboo swords. I don't have enough experience regarding it, but trust me, a lot of skilled martial artists would actually be offended if you asked them to spar with a bamboo sword. It's like a "what, you think I'll mess up?" kind of thing. __________________ Favorites: ToraDora! Full Metal Alchemist TWGOK (Kaminomi, The world God only knows)

2010-03-21, 10:53	Link #6238
babohtea Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009	What line from Hina are we talking about, here? I don't think little kids can eloquently describe their love. I mean, even to their parents you get stuff like "MY BESTEST DAD". XD __________________ Favorites: ToraDora! Full Metal Alchemist TWGOK (Kaminomi, The world God only knows)

2010-03-20, 18:25	Link #6221
zodanhko ignoring Join Date: Aug 2009	If you can find a chapter where he says he loved/loves a girl (any) besides Athena throughout the 264 chapters( I know that's not much), you'll be a legend Neyichigo-san. Yeah...For all we know, he could be in love with Tama or Klaus, and he doesn't know right. Or Nagi likes Hayate because he resembles her mother and "considering how romantically inept she is." Or Hina loves was false "considering how romantically inept she is." They are beginners, right? Believe me, Hayate had romantic experiences far greater than those two above. The feelings that started 10 years ago and lasted for 10 years unlike those two who's for some months.

2010-03-20, 19:46	Link #6223
Koroshiya_Kame_13 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Hitman League	In terms of being abusive to Hayate, I'll say that Nagi takes the lead by far. Ayumu and Hinagiku are probably the only ones who didn't abuse Hayate.

2010-03-21, 10:41	Link #6236
zodanhko ignoring Join Date: Aug 2009	It doesn't really matter what the swords are made of, and too bad for Hayate that Athena could only summon real swords. The strength differences between Athena and Hayate was very clear. She had no problem training Hayate with lethal weapons without hurting him or harming herself. That's just to show her level of mastery which was why Hayate became so efficient in such a short amount of time.