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Old 2010-03-22, 00:08   Link #2381
zato_1one
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cubicjack View Post
It was not explained, only mentioned. Here's a rough translation of that segment:
Spoiler for vol 20:
Ehh... Well, it would be good if the author try to explain how it can happen. Rather than tell the readers to accept that he can do it right away. Vol.20 just recently released right? I hope that it wasn't because a debate like this that made the author decided to write that line. Just to tell the readers to accept that Kuroko cannot attack Accel by teleporting her weapon into his stomach.

But each fiction can have different theory about teleportation. So, does the novel explain anything about how teleportation in this novel work? How is it related with vector in this case?
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Old 2010-03-22, 00:13   Link #2382
Marina2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
level 4 doesn't have that much flexibility yet. The only one I know that had a very flexible abilities are the level 5. Beside them the others are quite generic or specialized on a certain portion of their type of ability.
About LV.....

How much Lv4 differ from lv5 in term of power and capability? I think the difference between each Lv's powers are ambiguous. How did you guy know what lv5 can do ,but lv4 and lower doesn't

Are there any examples of the lv4 and lv5 persons who have the same ability in the novel?

Last edited by Marina2; 2010-03-22 at 00:36.
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Old 2010-03-22, 01:20   Link #2383
Plant42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zato_1one View Post
Ehh... Well, it would be good if the author try to explain how it can happen. Rather than tell the readers to accept that he can do it right away. Vol.20 just recently released right? I hope that it wasn't because a debate like this that made the author decided to write that line. Just to tell the readers to accept that Kuroko cannot attack Accel by teleporting her weapon into his stomach.

But each fiction can have different theory about teleportation. So, does the novel explain anything about how teleportation in this novel work? How is it related with vector in this case?
It's already explained in vol. 8 which is the volume that reveal almost every details about teleportation.

And for the idea of attacking someone by teleport something inside him , I'm sorry to say that it's useless really even with the one that's not Accelerator.

Cuz it has been stated that doing that kind of thing require more time and calculation than a normal teleportation, if the target move quickly the power will be nullified.

Of course normally you can do it with a lifeless target but for human or the other moving target it's reallydifferent(except your target is really a fool and stand like a sitting duck waiting for you to do that.).

Last edited by Plant42; 2010-03-22 at 04:28.
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Old 2010-03-22, 02:26   Link #2384
zato_1one
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Originally Posted by Plant42 View Post
It's already explained in vol. 8 which is the volume that reveal almost every details about teleportation.

And for the crappy idea of attacking someone by teleport something inside him , I'm sory to say that it's useless really even with the one that's not Accelerator.

Cuz it has been stated that doing that kind of thing require more time and calculation than a normal teleportation, if the target move quickly the power will be nullified.

Of course normally you can do it with a lifeless target but for human or the other moving target it's reallydifferent(except your target is really a fool and stand like a sitting duck waiting for you to do that.).
Hmm... I wouldn't take that as a fact seriously. 0_o Teleportation should work in an instant when it is activated. The time required to teleport should be zero in theory. No normal human can react in time. But each fiction has different theory that's why I asked how it work here. Yeah, it may be difficult if the target is fast. But what's about a surprised attack? Calculation shouldn't be any problem too if the user has a functional brain like Accel.

I just want to know how can this teleportation be reflected by Accel? Because I can't see how is it related with vector at all. That's why I asked this question. It can be used in real situation or not is another question. If you know then can you explain it here?
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Old 2010-03-22, 03:12   Link #2385
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zato_1one View Post
Hmm... I wouldn't take that as a fact seriously. 0_o Teleportation should work in an instant when it is activated. The time required to teleport should be zero in theory. No normal human can react in time. But each fiction has different theory that's why I asked how it work here. Yeah, it may be difficult if the target is fast. But what's about a surprised attack? Calculation shouldn't be any problem too if the user has a functional brain like Accel.

I just want to know how can this teleportation be reflected by Accel? Because I can't see how is it related with vector at all. That's why I asked this question. It can be used in real situation or not is another question. If you know then can you explain it here?
Teleporting is not a reflex. You need to calculate the exact coordinates of the object you are teleporting (hereafter referred to as target object) and your target location, relative to whatever reference frame you may choose (for example, Kuroko sets her target object as the origin, while Awaki sets herself as the origin, IIRC). And, not everyone has Accelerator's computational ability. To illustrate, the computational ability of ~10000 MISAKA clones working together only comes up to half of what Accelerator is capable of.

To learn more on the physics behind Index-verse teleportation (among other things), see this thread, including my post here which relates it to other examples in fiction.
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Old 2010-03-22, 04:40   Link #2386
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Sharing a new one with you guys:

Spoiler for Summary v.14:

Last edited by Lummie; 2010-03-22 at 07:23. Reason: correcting typo's
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Old 2010-03-22, 05:05   Link #2387
zato_1one
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Block View Post
Teleporting is not a reflex. You need to calculate the exact coordinates of the object you are teleporting (hereafter referred to as target object) and your target location, relative to whatever reference frame you may choose (for example, Kuroko sets her target object as the origin, while Awaki sets herself as the origin, IIRC). And, not everyone has Accelerator's computational ability. To illustrate, the computational ability of ~10000 MISAKA clones working together only comes up to half of what Accelerator is capable of.
I understand. I just want to point out that it is a user limitation. If the user is much more powerful like level 5 then it should be more effective right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Block View Post
To learn more on the physics behind Index-verse teleportation (among other things), see this thread, including my post here which relates it to other examples in fiction.
It basically means that the user use another dimension to travel to the destination. But that dimension has slower time than our world. So that's why the teleportation looks very fast. Using this theory, it means that it has a delay time to teleport. That dimension has its own laws of physics but some basic concepts like energy transfer and momentum are still the same.

Back to my question, I think that it should be more appropriate if Accel reflects those objects before they can exit that dimension and reach their destination. Because it's no point if he can only react when those objects are already in his body. It's possible to change the trajectory by changing the momentum in that dimension. But it means that Accel's ability is also capable of manipulating vector in another dimension which indicates that his AIM field is distributed to another dimension too. Don't know if this is natural or not. And I wonder if this happens automatically or he calculates it. Because I don't think that he can see in another dimension. If he can then I think that it means that he has potential to be a teleporter too which shouldn't be possible. But may be at this point everything is possible.

All of these are just speculation based on speculation. I guess that it can't be taken seriously until it's explained in the novel. And it can be totally wrong because I don't read the novel. But thank you anyway, that's a good reading.
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Old 2010-03-22, 07:18   Link #2388
paptimus
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damn that terra , he could've just told us what imagine breaker really is. Something that caught my attention is how he implied that the memories were the key to unlocking IB real power. why is this?
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Old 2010-03-22, 08:25   Link #2389
MonkeyDude
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Hehe highlight of that volume for me is when Itsuwa was explaining the details of her magic ritual, I guess typical of an Amakusa Catholic, involving typical day-to-day stuff that somehow requires the use of her white panties... Thanks for the detailed explanation, my Chinese -> English version barely let me understand half of what you wrote (hell I didn't even know Accel was the one leading that operation), but the dialogue I did manage to decipher was funny as hell

It's rather amusing how the author loves to use coincidences as a plot device for 'x' character to meet Touma, but what the hell bring on the harem!
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Old 2010-03-22, 08:57   Link #2390
Miraluka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuroishinigami View Post
Which is exactly why it will be interested to see it implemented in a pseudo-scientific series like this. And to comment on godlike ability, the magic side is basically getting their power from *god* itself
coughAurreluscough

Quote:
Originally Posted by paptimus View Post
Something that caught my attention is how he implied that the memories were the key to unlocking IB real power. why is this?
Yeah but the problem is Touma never used such powers before he loss his memories, IMO Touma, being at Academy City, had no way to discover his powers in a scientific way.
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Old 2010-03-22, 10:22   Link #2391
tsunade666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marina2 View Post
About LV.....

How much Lv4 differ from lv5 in term of power and capability? I think the difference between each Lv's powers are ambiguous. How did you guy know what lv5 can do ,but lv4 and lower doesn't

Are there any examples of the lv4 and lv5 persons who have the same ability in the novel?
I'll give an example after this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zato_1one View Post
I understand. I just want to point out that it is a user limitation. If the user is much more powerful like level 5 then it should be more effective right?

It basically means that the user use another dimension to travel to the destination. But that dimension has slower time than our world. So that's why the teleportation looks very fast. Using this theory, it means that it has a delay time to teleport. That dimension has its own laws of physics but some basic concepts like energy transfer and momentum are still the same.

Back to my question, I think that it should be more appropriate if Accel reflects those objects before they can exit that dimension and reach their destination. Because it's no point if he can only react when those objects are already in his body. It's possible to change the trajectory by changing the momentum in that dimension. But it means that Accel's ability is also capable of manipulating vector in another dimension which indicates that his AIM field is distributed to another dimension too. Don't know if this is natural or not. And I wonder if this happens automatically or he calculates it. Because I don't think that he can see in another dimension. If he can then I think that it means that he has potential to be a teleporter too which shouldn't be possible. But may be at this point everything is possible.

All of these are just speculation based on speculation. I guess that it can't be taken seriously until it's explained in the novel. And it can be totally wrong because I don't read the novel. But thank you anyway, that's a good reading.
aah....... few words. The author make Touma an undying falcon puncher which even slice and dice and even pummeled to the ground his still alive and standing the perfect allies of justice

as for accel..... dues ex machina if you ask me his ability is sooooooo vague that only gives you an impression like what " control over vector? " if a you ask a layman about that he would probably say lame... pretty lame. But it has tons of use for a super brain killing psycho like Accel.

I don't know much about teleportation because I skip vol 08 because its focused on judgment and kuroko not the super gar touam and psycho accel.

as for explanation of difference in ability of level 4 and 5. I will give my idea using teleportation as example.

The current know teleportation are all level 4.

The first mostly known is "instant teleportation" of kuroko. And RIGHT its called instant because it has the minimum time gap or delay. its pretty much the fastest teleport of all but with this kind of ability it has lots of limitation. They say that kuroko has the most general or common teleportation but I beg to differ. She also has specialization like the others.

Using herself and the object as origin. Setting as zero and the distance of the enemy and where to transport are her key items. Being callen instant has the meaning like the name implies instant. In the anime you could see that is sure is looks like instant. But if you observe it well. Its all " SMALL " to small. She never teleport something much bigger than herself and the distance are all within the reach of eyes. Given the speed it sacrifice the weight of the object plus the distance

The next one is forgot the name but its also an ability of teleportation and a specialization one. The one specialize in teleporting in the back of the enemy. its requirement is the teleporter must know the location of the enemy and whats the surrounding on it. She can't teleport if theirs an obstruction their because she would just be stuck their. And I think its range is not so great too. Probably the same like kuroko because teleproting on the back of the enemy is strictly tiring. And its probably the closest one on someone asking if its possible to teleport something inside the body of an enemy. If you teleport on the inside of the enemy you will consider on where it will be teleported. But if you teleport it on the empty space behind the enemy then you wouldn't consider anything.

Lastly is the "move point" of awaki. The one known has the ability to become level 5 but become traumatize because of being stuck on the wall for.... days....yes days ><. If I'm stuck on the wall for days I will also be traumatize. The move point requires massive!!! massive!!! computing capabilities because it has RANGE!! unlike others which requires touch. Awaki specialize herself due to trauma of being stuck to walls to teleport with range. If you teleport something with range then its possible to hide yourself and not to put you in harm. And being a teleporter that is scared of teleporting herself she has a fatal flaw. And to compensate for it. She put on range. But here's the problem. Unlike the first two which had speed this one hasn't. Their is a time lag. Kuroko being the fastest teleporter. But for awaki. She is also fast if its small but this girl thinks big............ like a building. She can teleport a building but being building it has a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge time lag. Enough time for touma to punch it back. Like on what you see on macross when a spaceship is leaving their warp zone. Just imagine it like this. She has the power and the range plus her maximum range is also quite far but lack speed.

That's the most level 4.

And as for difference of level 4 and level 5. Then it could be because all of the level 4 are only specialize in one matter. As for level 5. They are flexible. Too flexible. Taken misaka as example. She should be an electro master. Firing rounds of rounds of lightning but she also mastered the electro magnetism. For others it should be possible but if you ask me its like dual skill even if electro magnetism branch of from being an electro master. She walks walls. Complete control of any substance that conducts electricity. 10 billion bolts of lightning then her railgun. Isn't that flexible? they can go from defense to offense like its nothing. Unlike those level 4 that needs to specialize or excel on something on the field of their ability to power up.

and lastly this should be discussed on our abilities thread already. We had a thread like that now

btw thanks for the spoiler of vol 14 though I probably know where it was originally found
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Old 2010-03-22, 10:32   Link #2392
kuroishinigami
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
coughAurreluscough

Yea, that's why I was kinda implying it's not that much of a problem a godlike power appearing in the series with all the angel and people like Aurrelus on the series already.

BTW, I haven't read SS yet, has Aurrelus power been mentioned yet? and Aurrelus is actually

Spoiler for :


right?
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Old 2010-03-22, 10:34   Link #2393
Miraluka
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New translations on baka tsuki

OMG this part is so freakin hilarious
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Old 2010-03-22, 10:42   Link #2394
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@kuroishinigami: AFAIK no, aurrelus is just a scandinavian magician who gave up becoming a magic god to save a cat...or something...nothing to do with tube-kun...
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Old 2010-03-22, 10:44   Link #2395
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
New translations on baka tsuki

OMG this part is so freakin hilarious
Thank you for the link!!

And hello vol. 14 spoiler. This definitely some good information for me ^^. Can't wait till the next update hits. Teh Ping!! Nice job as always xD!!
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Old 2010-03-22, 10:49   Link #2396
Miraluka
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Originally Posted by giorno View Post
@kuroishinigami: AFAIK no, aurrelus is just a scandinavian magician who gave up becoming a magic god to save a cat...or something...nothing to do with tube-kun...
It was because he dislikes the human traffic with children and maybe because of Sylvia, still he is almost a "God", in the SS used defensive magic in a offensive way, maybe to inflict less damage as possible.
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Old 2010-03-22, 11:16   Link #2397
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
New translations on baka tsuki

OMG this part is so freakin hilarious
Oh crud... Don't tell me Seiri has a queen control complex on Touma.
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Old 2010-03-22, 11:25   Link #2398
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Originally Posted by Soul Assassin View Post
Oh crud... Don't tell me Seiri has a queen control complex on Touma.
Thats actually a pretty good thought. I believe she may have one lol xD
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Old 2010-03-22, 11:30   Link #2399
Sleep_ping
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Wait till you see the next part...... Working on it now.

Progress been slow ever since I got a part-time job......

Speaking of Seiri, now we know why she's called the 'iron wall girl'......
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Old 2010-03-22, 11:38   Link #2400
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if I remember it right the next part is much more hilarious though what I read is raw so its not too much accurate for me but

Spoiler:


Among all girls the only one I truly adore and I can say can control touma is Seiri.
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