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Old 2010-03-23, 02:25   Link #1181
Judoh
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I remembered something from episode 2 about Kanon liking Beatrice to a "moon in the water". For some reason I thought that Moon in the water might actually be the name of a painting so I searched it up. Well I didn't get any hits at first so I changed it to A Maiden in the water. What I came up was a short story written in 2005 called The water maiden by Joel Gn. A writer from Singapore.

http://bewilderingstories.com/specia...er_maiden.html

Spoiler for water maiden:



Well I found a lot of similarities in the story. Particularly the reference to a maiden granting him wealth, locking the maiden up in a prison, and the golden ingots at the end. It might just be a coincidence that the stories are similar, but I thought it was kind of interesting.

Last edited by Judoh; 2010-03-23 at 02:40.
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Old 2010-03-24, 16:23   Link #1182
ErenselTheJester
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Wow... that's a pretty amazing find. Good job.
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Old 2010-03-25, 07:28   Link #1183
rogerpepitone
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I think there's a story about the reflection of the moon on water in some martial arts.
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Old 2010-03-27, 19:35   Link #1184
Judoh
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Latin: Beata Maria (Holy, Blessed, "or happy" Mary)

Greek: Kyrie Eleison (O Lord have mercy)

Last edited by Judoh; 2010-03-27 at 20:15.
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Old 2010-05-25, 21:13   Link #1185
kirbykid
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Sorry guys, I'm new here so bear with me.

For one, I know little to nothing about Umineko, but I do know how the story works since I have played and watched both Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni and Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni Kai, which both stuck to the game religiously.

I was wondering if the Anime for Umineko is the same as the game. I was also wondering how exactly the structure is set up.

Is each individual chapter a new game with a new culprit(s)? Or are they all linked?
Is basically the plot Battler trying to solve what appears to be events due to magic by conventional means, and thus debunking Beatrice and winning the game as some sort of dichotomous reality where witches both exist and don't exist depending on if you believe?

Could someone shed some light on this or link me to something?
That would be great, thanks.
うみ猫のぜんぶの事を知ってほしいな。
(im also good with japanese xd)
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Old 2010-05-25, 21:21   Link #1186
Judoh
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The story is the same, but most of the VN fans don't like how it was adapted into the anime. Some go as far as to joke that it doesn't exist yet.

Like the Higurashi anime though some of the key points were left out due to adaptation degradation. So the anime viewers who haven't read the game are at a disadvantage.
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Old 2010-05-25, 21:28   Link #1187
kirbykid
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And as for what has been resolved and the structure of the episodes/chapters/things...
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Old 2010-05-25, 21:32   Link #1188
Judoh
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I can't say too much here because the threads for beginners, but it's clear that Umineko is very different from Higurashi.

The episodes are obviously structured differently becuase they only have content from two days where Higurashi is much longer than that. Like Higurashi though the stories are always different.

As for whether there are different culprits or not even the fans don't know.
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Old 2010-05-25, 21:36   Link #1189
kirbykid
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well thats unfortunate

i guess ill just make it a summer goal to watch the anime and maybe play the game.

is the anime finished? both the question and answer episodes?
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Old 2010-05-25, 21:44   Link #1190
Judoh
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Yes the anime is finished. I don't think there will be a season two for the core arcs due to bad DVD sales in japan though.
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Old 2010-05-25, 21:46   Link #1191
Frisko
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The anime only covers the question arcs (i.e. 1-4).
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Old 2010-05-25, 23:23   Link #1192
Thunder Book
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For Umineko, I'd watch the first two anime arcs to see if you like it. If you like those, I personally recommend then going through arcs 3-6 in the novels.
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Old 2010-05-26, 13:50   Link #1193
kirbykid
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I started watching the anime;

i guess in terms of explaining things its alright since I wouldn't mind if the entire series was just a long wall of text, but it seems to dramatized and focused more on trivial elements than on the actual mystery.

So I'm definitely going to have to buy the game, then hopefully I'll be able to join in on the debates.

I'm still confused, however, as to how certain things work.

1) Red truths; Do they carry on through every chapter? Or are those certain red truths pertainable only to the chapter that those actions happen in? IE there are only 17 people on the island in 1 chapter, but what about the next?

2) General chapters in general; how do they work? Is each chapter a new scenario? And in each scenario different culprit(s)? And in each culprit different motives? Is each one a completely new *dimension* (i use that term loosely and inefficiently)

Relating back to Higurash, each arc was a different story entirely, however there were general things that remained the same through each. Iwamano, The God of the Village, Rika Furude's reincarnations/specialness, Keichi's affection for the little girl, and the actual virus. However, there was a different culprit for each arc as well as different explanations (except for the one where Keichi thinks he's going crazy, what was up with that?) Does Umineko work the same way? From what i understand the whole event is a game that Beatrice plays with Battler where he tries to disprove scenarios using logic instead of giving into magic. In that sense, however, nothing is really "true" or "actually happening" since the game board can be reset and players can be added and subtracted in order to advance or gain advantages, but other than that I don't see clear divisions.
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Old 2010-05-26, 18:45   Link #1194
LyricalAura
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirbykid View Post
I'm still confused, however, as to how certain things work.

1) Red truths; Do they carry on through every chapter? Or are those certain red truths pertainable only to the chapter that those actions happen in? IE there are only 17 people on the island in 1 chapter, but what about the next?
It depends on the particular statement and context. Generally they apply only to a single episode unless they state otherwise. For instance, the red for the person limit specifically says it refers to all games: There are no more than 17 humans existing on this island!! This includes an 18th person. In other words, no 18th person X exists!! This applies to all games!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kirbykid View Post
2) General chapters in general; how do they work? Is each chapter a new scenario? And in each scenario different culprit(s)? And in each culprit different motives? Is each one a completely new *dimension* (i use that term loosely and inefficiently)
Most people believe that the initial condition of each game is the same up until the game starts on October 4th, and then variations occur afterward based on Battler and Beato's moves. The number and variation of culprits are all unknown at this point.

Bernkastel has suggested that there are Rules governing the chessboard, similar to the ones that drove the variation in Higurashi. You might want to check out the Bernkastel's Letter extra TIP for her theories about those.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kirbykid View Post
Relating back to Higurashi, <snip>. Does Umineko work the same way? From what i understand the whole event is a game that Beatrice plays with Battler where he tries to disprove scenarios using logic instead of giving into magic. In that sense, however, nothing is really "true" or "actually happening" since the game board can be reset and players can be added and subtracted in order to advance or gain advantages, but other than that I don't see clear divisions.
Whether the different chessboards are "real" and how they're connected isn't well-understood yet. The term "Fragment" has shown up in the story several times, but it may or may not mean the same thing as it did in Higurashi, and we don't know if game boards represent real alternate worlds or are just fake constructions on top of a single real Rokkenjima. Reaching an understanding of the nature of the chessboard seems to be one of the central parts of the mystery though.

Spoiler for Higurashi solution:
__________________
"Something has fallen on us that falls very seldom on men; perhaps the worst thing that can fall on them. We have found the truth; and the truth makes no sense."

Last edited by LyricalAura; 2010-05-26 at 21:00.
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Old 2010-05-26, 21:09   Link #1195
kirbykid
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Spoiler for series:
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Old 2010-05-26, 22:18   Link #1196
Frisko
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Battler doesn't have to move on to the next mystery when he's frustrated. But, the reason he's frustrated is that he doesn't believe he has enough information to solve the current mystery. By moving on to the next mystery he hopes he'll gain information that will help him solve the previous mysteries. And he does try to solve the previous mysteries later on.
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