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Old 2010-03-23, 01:11   Link #861
Daniel Lind
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I don't think the point here at all is that Katanagatari is some kind of lasting masterpiece or something original and groundbreaking in anime (no one even said that!).

The point is that modern anime, pretty much like modern media in general, has reached points beyond shallowness and low quality entertainment. Seeing a show which is solid, thought-out and doesn't try to jump higher than its head is the greatest thing I can say about a show now.

In case of anime, for full two years I am absolutely disappointed with almost each and every season with exception of at best two shows per season. It's not me that outgrown the anime, I still find solid and ab-so-lutely enjoyable titles released in previous years. And 2010 put the last nail in the coffin. When the most solid titles out there are a sunday mahou shoujo cartoon and an anime adaptation of sub-par light novels which does not have even nearly enough animation and script reworking for what it does, well, I think that says much. I think I'll finish HeartCatch Precure and Katanagatari and then I'm done with anime.

Then there is the factor of opinions. Personally, I was utterly disappointed with beloved-by-many Soranowoto and Durarara!!, the show that tried hard and couldn't really succeed in my eyes. Then there is Dance in the Vampire Bund which is mediocre in "We at Shaft just LOVE to ruin good manga" way. Everything else isn't even worth of mentioning.

Although I'm not trying, ever, to drop by those shows' threads to ruin the fanwank that might be going on there.


Back to Katanagatari.
While I believe that most of the script could be reworked while keeping most of the points in, while animation should have been... more elaborate, especially for a show which offers so much text, I fail to find even a single line that doesn't work for characterisation or is a filler.
Even banter about catchphrases, it provided comical relief (since when is THAT considered a filler, honestly?) and a running catchphrase gag, which I find quite awesome, to be honest. Saying that the show is about antagonists is stating the obvious. Every character in the show is in antagonistic relationships with the main pair and even Togame and Shichika's interests are going pretty much contradictory - their families were enemies. Pretty much everyone out there is an enemy! Well, I like to think of the show as a gallery. A gallery of people, their habits, hopes and dreams, more than anything else.

Katanagatari is a fairy tale. About fabulous samurai, flawless warrior and his princess and fancy artificial stage-ness.

Last edited by Daniel Lind; 2010-03-23 at 01:25.
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Old 2010-03-23, 02:37   Link #862
Sol Falling
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Lind View Post
I don't think the point here at all is that Katanagatari is some kind of lasting masterpiece or something original and groundbreaking in anime (no one even said that!).

The point is that modern anime, pretty much like modern media in general, has reached points beyond shallowness and low quality entertainment. Seeing a show which is solid, thought-out and doesn't try to jump higher than its head is the greatest thing I can say about a show now.

In case of anime, for full two years I am absolutely disappointed with almost each and every season with exception of at best two shows per season. It's not me that outgrown the anime, I still find solid and ab-so-lutely enjoyable titles released in previous years. And 2010 put the last nail in the coffin. When the most solid titles out there are a sunday mahou shoujo cartoon and an anime adaptation of sub-par light novels which does not have even nearly enough animation and script reworking for what it does, well, I think that says much. I think I'll finish HeartCatch Precure and Katanagatari and then I'm done with anime.

Then there is the factor of opinions. Personally, I was utterly disappointed with beloved-by-many Soranowoto and Durarara!!, the show that tried hard and couldn't really succeed in my eyes. Then there is Dance in the Vampire Bund which is mediocre in "We at Shaft just LOVE to ruin good manga" way. Everything else isn't even worth of mentioning.

Although I'm not trying, ever, to drop by those shows' threads to ruin the fanwank that might be going on there.
I've actually begun to read Bund, compelled by the anime, and I have to say--it isn't really what I'd call 'good manga'. It's got a couple good points, to be sure, but I find the adaptation to be overall a better product (kinda rare actually). In terms of 'ruining' the manga though: the first arc is basically the only change to the content that's actually significant, while many of the changes in general are positive improvements. Bund's greatest weakness, for me personally, is the inconsistency of its animation (which I'll admit is often pretty bad, particularly with fuckups like episode 7).

Katanagatari itself has its flaws too, I agree, particularly in its somewhat dull visuals (it basically just coasts on its character design and the rare exciting action sequence), and some of the residual quirks of Nishio's writing. (The fourth wall stuff and Meisai's 'so-and-so manipulation: failed' quips do come off as altogether too 'ohoho aren't we clever?') So I gotta admit, that these two certainly flawed series are my favourites for the season might reflect badly on the overall quality of anime. But both have solid story/content and evident narrative intention in their execution. I think that's enough to qualify as 'good' for any medium, not just the 'low standards' of anime.

Also, I think if guys like you and Wandering Knight are feeling disillusioned and not watching much anime, maybe you should try some of the light stuff that isn't trying for some sort of grand/meaningful story. Hanamaru Youchien and Hidamari Sketch are good examples of stuff that just manages to be consistently enjoyable, on a simple lighthearted level, every single episode. I think there's a lot of solid, unassuming stuff like this out there every season, so it somewhat pays to just ignore the hype/popularity trains and take a look around.
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Last edited by Sol Falling; 2010-03-23 at 06:03. Reason: ninjas
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Old 2010-03-23, 03:34   Link #863
Haak
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How is that different from the typical Tarzan boy story with a "civilized" female companion?
A typical tarzan boy story is a lot more upbeat and probably wouldn't deal with killing. I never watched Tarzan but I'm pretty sure as a Disney film there was no such situation, as when it's appropriate to kill. The point of deconstructions is to play a trope brutally straight. So they have to play it straight before they emphasis the brutality bit, if you know what I mean.
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Old 2010-03-23, 05:21   Link #864
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Quote:
I don't think the point here at all is that Katanagatari is some kind of lasting masterpiece or something original and groundbreaking in anime (no one even said that!).
Er, my first post in this thread quotes someone who did.

Also if an anime doesn't try to be any of what you said, why would it be worth my time? There's 30 new series every six months, you know. Of course I could go over every single series thread and post my opinion but that would mean I'd have to watch every single series, something I don't have time to do. So, I'd rather focus on the series I do watch.

Quote:
A typical tarzan boy story is a lot more upbeat and probably wouldn't deal with killing. I never watched Tarzan but I'm pretty sure as a Disney film there was no such situation, as when it's appropriate to kill.
Tarzan is way, way older than the Disney film, and it wasn't a story for kids. Just saying. It still was a crappy story if you ask me, and it's certainly not the exact same as we're seeing in our hero bloke, but it laid the ground for such a character archetype.

Even so, what I meant is that the feral kid archetype fits the idea of him not caring about killing people. After all, if he's not touched by civilization, why would he have to care about some sort of moral code?
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Old 2010-03-23, 06:19   Link #865
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Whoah, you dudes are thinking waaaay too hard on this. The first three episodes didn't get a poster did they? Or maybe it was just a genaric one with T and Schi on it.
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Old 2010-03-23, 07:40   Link #866
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Whoah, you dudes are thinking waaaay too hard on this.
Some of us like to engage our mind when appreciating an audiovisual piece of media.
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Old 2010-03-23, 09:01   Link #867
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But on the same subject phrased differently? Yes we've established that Schika can be both callous and compassionate, now let's shove some quantum wave theories into it.
Maybe I'll make some caps of the new trailer and post them here just to pass the time.
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Old 2010-03-23, 09:24   Link #868
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Engaging your mind is not always the best way to appreciate or enjoy something. Katanagatari is straightforward and cliché. At the same time it doesn't take itself too seriously, so why should the viewer?

Personally I love it. I love the fact that it's not pretentious. It just is what it is. It's cute, entertaining, light, funny etc etc. The art style didn't appeal to me at first but after the first ep I felt that it fit well with the atmosphere. The animation is great, with very fluid action scenes. The story is plain and unoriginal, yet it gives enough premise for the events to take place and keeps enough info covered so as to keep the viewer in anticipation. The characters are great. They lay everything down for you to see so you don't have to try and interpret every little hint, which is fortunate because they're usually dead by the end of the episode.

I think squirrel is right. There's no need to analyse something so simple to such an extent.
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Old 2010-03-23, 09:28   Link #869
WanderingKnight
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Quote:
But on the same subject phrased differently? Yes we've established that Schika can be both callous and compassionate [...]
Huh?

Quote:
Engaging your mind is not always the best way to appreciate or enjoy something.
So, am I supposed to think this is a bad show then?

PS: I know what ticks you people off, and that is criticism of something you like. Which is not bad at all, but it's not reason enough to call off any sort of serious discussion whatsoever. I believe this show deserves a bit of it, otherwise I wouldn't be wasting my time on it.
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Old 2010-03-23, 11:55   Link #870
Daniel Lind
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The first three episodes didn't get a poster did they? Or maybe it was just a genaric one with T and Schi on it.
Uh... The eight posters crops from which are used on the website's main page were made to promote the first cour... No, there wasn't a poster with Koumori, Ginkaku and Meisai like the new one. There was that one though:
Spoiler for pic:
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Old 2010-03-23, 12:58   Link #871
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Even so, what I meant is that the feral kid archetype fits the idea of him not caring about killing people. After all, if he's not touched by civilization, why would he have to care about some sort of moral code?
Well...yeah, that's what I was getting at. It's just that in other storys like Dragonball or Crocadile dundee, his naivity is usually played for laughs. There might be some serious implications, here and there but they never go so far as a severe lack of morals for killing like Katanagatari is hinting at. That's the point of a deconstruction. It's supposed to play the type brutally straighter than others.

But...is that what already happened in the older version of Tarzan?

[edit]

Apparently not. The older Tarzan was portrayed, essentially, as an ideal person which is exactly the opposite of what I believe Shichika is being protrayed as. Hence, the deconstruction.
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Old 2010-03-24, 04:15   Link #872
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So, am I supposed to think this is a bad show then?

PS: I know what ticks you people off, and that is criticism of something you like. Which is not bad at all, but it's not reason enough to call off any sort of serious discussion whatsoever. I believe this show deserves a bit of it, otherwise I wouldn't be wasting my time on it.
I don't think that's what he means. I think he just thinks that you are supposed to judge the genre by what it is supposed to be. Like you can't analyze Charlotte's Web like you do with Paradise Lost etc. He also think you should take Katanagatari so seriously (or at least that's what I think he means).

Personally I rather enjoy your perspective of it, it's just hard for me to say things without spoiling (since my views are rather based on what will happen etc.), so I rather not say anything at all! Without people like you, most of the discussion would be quite one-sided, so I say carry on!
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Old 2010-03-24, 20:02   Link #873
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Without people like you, most of the discussion would be quite one-sided, so I say carry on!
Apparently I'm harping on the subject by responding to what people say about what I post *shrug*

PS: I agree with you on that and it's the reason partly why I prefer posting on threads about series I don't like that much, since +1'ing on threads about series I like is kinda pointless IMO (mostly on the idea of "If you don't have anything interesting to say, don't say it at all").
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Old 2010-03-25, 00:00   Link #874
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I call it some needed grounding (expanded perspectives). I am enjoying the show quite a lot but only because its trying to "subvert the archetype". A straight "shonen action shout power" series bores me to tears. Its the stuff outside that I find interesting - the strange artwork, the verbose conversations, the fact that we're finding the sword holders are not "bad guys" ... just people on their own mission that conflicts with the duo. The "ninjas" (who bear no resemblance at all to such) are a kind of deranged Team Rocket who (for now) appear and then get their chitlins handed to them.

Its just kind of interesting watching this author's dance with a genre.
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Old 2010-03-25, 07:07   Link #875
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Finally got around to episode 3 and I'd say was easily better than the first or second episode. Meisai had very good development during the episode, and her past I'd say. Plus she made for some pretty interesting[to me anyways] conversions with Shichika and Togame. I can't wait for 4th now since looked intense at some point from the preview. Also I thought the 3rd ending was a bit weird but fitting at the same time.
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Old 2010-03-25, 08:58   Link #876
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Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
Apparently I'm harping on the subject by responding to what people say about what I post *shrug*

PS: I agree with you on that and it's the reason partly why I prefer posting on threads about series I don't like that much, since +1'ing on threads about series I like is kinda pointless IMO (mostly on the idea of "If you don't have anything interesting to say, don't say it at all").
That;s actually pretty cool that you can come here and talk constructivly about an anime you don't care for much without trashing it. Pretty rare in this day and age.
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Old 2010-03-25, 10:01   Link #877
Daniel Lind
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From Katanagatari series twitter:
Spoiler for 3 images:
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Old 2010-03-25, 10:27   Link #878
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From Katanagatari series twitter:
There's a Katanagatari series twitter?!
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Old 2010-03-25, 11:51   Link #879
Daniel Lind
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There's a Katanagatari series twitter?!
Yea, it's not like it's on the series website's main page or something...
Here it is, anyway.
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Old 2010-03-25, 12:36   Link #880
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Yea, it's not like it's on the series website's main page or something...
Here it is, anyway.
I guess I never scrolled down that far on the main page. Thanks for the link.
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