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Old 2010-03-26, 02:25   Link #741
nono06
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This is what Aizen was about to say "After all, you ARE MY SON" or "you are my masterpiece"
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Old 2010-03-26, 04:08   Link #742
Bokkin
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alright...if isshin was the king....why the fuck would he be in the dimension next to Aizen?.....He' most definitely not the king...because that is not apart of Aizens plan lolz and he wouldn't have gone through all the trouble to find a way to get a key if the king was just going to show up.....he's got a captains cloak and we know he's 110+ years captain because shinji had no clue as to who he was....zero guard is the best guess....I think he might be even further than that...maybe a earlier captain commander before Yama-jii....nothing is impossible with Kubo.
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Old 2010-03-26, 04:20   Link #743
Spectacular_Insanity
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I want to be the first person to theorize that Isshin is the king of Soul Society. That being said, I have no support for that statement whatsoever. I'm just throwing it out there.
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Old 2010-03-26, 04:36   Link #744
JustRob
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Isshin can't be the king, because Aizen would definitely know about that, and since Aizen wants to kill the king, there'd be no need to even go to Karakura Town.
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Old 2010-03-26, 12:44   Link #745
Kafriel
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Originally Posted by Spectacular_Insanity View Post
I want to be the first person to theorize that Isshin is the king of Soul Society. That being said, I have no support for that statement whatsoever. I'm just throwing it out there.
You're four years late
I'll be the pioneer and say that Isshin is merely one of Aizen's illusions. It explains why absolutely nobody knows him in SS, and being the true father of Ichigo, he cast KS on him the day of his birth, creating a surrogate father to look after him. Also Aizen impregnated Masaki and afterwards threw her on grand fisher so as to control Ichigo's potential. Karin and Yuzu may also be potential illusions.WHAT A TWIST!
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Old 2010-03-26, 12:57   Link #746
JustRob
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Originally Posted by Kafriel View Post
You're four years late
I'll be the pioneer and say that Isshin is merely one of Aizen's illusions. It explains why absolutely nobody knows him in SS, and being the true father of Ichigo, he cast KS on him the day of his birth, creating a surrogate father to look after him. Also Aizen impregnated Masaki and afterwards threw her on grand fisher so as to control Ichigo's potential. Karin and Yuzu may also be potential illusions.WHAT A TWIST!
Right, and I guess Ryuuken and the fact that Kisuke knows Isshin are also illusions.
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Old 2010-03-26, 13:30   Link #747
Kafriel
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Right, and I guess Ryuuken and the fact that Kisuke knows Isshin are also illusions.
Dammit I knew I had forgotten something...Wouldn't be too surprised if Ryuuken's objective as a Quincy is, naturally, the death of the king of SS. As for Kisuke...well, you got me there
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Old 2010-03-26, 13:40   Link #748
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Originally Posted by JustRob View Post
Isshin can't be the king, because Aizen would definitely know about that, and since Aizen wants to kill the king, there'd be no need to even go to Karakura Town.
But... Isshin lives in Karakura Town, so I don't see the problem here
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Old 2010-03-26, 13:51   Link #749
JustRob
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Hmmmmm. But that raises some questions as well. Isn't the Shinigami King supposed to be in a whole other dimension? Would such an important person really be allowed to blatantly live in the human world?

Is the cake a lie?
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Old 2010-03-26, 14:11   Link #750
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Shiba house
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It's gotta be the Shiba house
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Old 2010-03-26, 14:57   Link #751
AnimaTheory
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Theories I don't Support:
-Isshin is King (silly)
-Aizen and Isshin are Brothers
-Aizen "created" or is somehow related to Ichigo

Yes these would be interesting twists, but I dont suppose we have ANY reason whatsoever to really suspect these things.

My Theory:
1. Aizen's complete thought was supposed to be "because you are a Shinigami and a **Hollow**"

Spoiler for :


Truthfully, there is no reason to believe ichigo has quincy powers and the only thing we know Ichigo really is, is human, part shinigami, and part hollow. And since humans have no real consistent powers (orihime's, sado's and ishida's powers are all completely unique to them or their families) that we know of. It only makes sense that Aizen would refer to his hollow abilities in conjunction with his shinigami abilities.

2. Ichigo is the perfect mix of Hollow and Shinigami because... [this is where I go out on a limb].... Isshin was a Shinigami and his mother Masaki was a VASTO LORDE. Thus, he is the ultimate shinigami-hollow hybrid. That also explains why is conception/birth was so important to Aizen.

Spoiler for :


If you're thinking, why the hell would a shinigami and hollow fall in love/conceive a child (or multiple children), then I'd say, look at Nel. Nel is definitely a hollow, and friggin strong hollow too. But she is also pretty human-like, not only in appearance, but in dispositions, behavior, and morality and such. So it would be possible for a hollow to love a shinigami, in my opinion.

This could also help explain why ichigo kicks ass in very battle (bad-ass-ness runs in the family).

3. I'll take it one step further and say that Isshin was formerly a part of the Zero Division, which would explain why very few people (only urahara, really) knows him. Since it seems like only Captains and a few former lieutenants know about the existence of Zero Division/Royal Guard, its not a stretch of the imagination that the captains don't know very much, if anything at all, about members of that squad. And we already know that Isshin had lost his powers somehow, so it is possible that Masaki could've lost her powers as well.

Now that I think of it, Masaki HAD to be more than just a regular human. We already know that isshin is somehow special, but would it make sense (from the author's persepctive) for some former badass captain-level shinigami to marry some completely random/not-unique human, who eventually gives birth to an even more ass-kicking child? I don't think so.

Sorry about the novel. haha

PS: I think it seems obvious that Isshin is somehow related to the Shiba house. I mean, ichigo looks like kaein, isshin looks like ganju, and kukkaku looks like karin. Not to mention, they have very similar behaviors/mannerisms. I don't think its too much of a stretch to say Isshin was former head of the Shiba house.

Last edited by AnimaTheory; 2010-03-28 at 11:26.
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Old 2010-03-26, 15:28   Link #752
JustRob
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The Masaki = Hollow theory is plausible but the question still remains how the hell she gave birth. I mean I'm all for creativity and imagination, but... True, Neliel does look like she could bear a child, but then again Neliel is an arrancar created by Aizen. And he wasn't able to create Arrancars like this until he got the Hougyoku.

Even if she was a Vasto Lorde, that would still be a monster hollow with no human / shinigami characteristics. We don't know exactly how Vasto Lordes look like, but they would most likely still look like weird shaped monsters.

But this is kind of mind wrecking because the theory is really plausible. It could also be the reason why Isshin's powers were taken / why he got kicked out wherever he came from, because falling in love with a Hollow would be outrageous for a shinigami.
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Old 2010-03-26, 16:08   Link #753
Kurohitsugi
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If Masaki was a Vasto Lorde, then that raises the question how she lost her life to such a lowlevel class hollow as Grand Fisher. With their difference in terms of reiatsu, GF shouldn't be able to give her a skretch.
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Old 2010-03-26, 16:16   Link #754
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurohitsugi View Post
If Masaki was a Vasto Lorde, then that raises the question how she lost her life to such a lowlevel class hollow as Grand Fisher. With their difference in terms of reiatsu, GF shouldn't be able to give her a skretch.
maybe she used a Gegai? who knows.
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Old 2010-03-26, 16:20   Link #755
AnimaTheory
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Even if she was a Vasto Lorde, that would still be a monster hollow with no human / shinigami characteristics. We don't know exactly how Vasto Lordes look like, but they would most likely still look like weird shaped monsters.
We don't know for sure what Vasto Lordes look like, true. But isn't possible that Stark and Barrigan were Vasto Lordes? We don't know definitively, but its not impossible. And it seems like the more powerful the Hollow, the more human-like in appearance they become. Menos Grande to Adjuchas to Vasto Lorde (with Arrancar somewhere in between, i guess). Not to mention, the silhoutette of a vasto lorde was shown and it looked humanoid.

Another point @JustRob, is that arrancar started appearing in large numbers after Aizen's arrival to hueco mundo. However, I don't think it was ever stated that they were explicitly and solely a product of the hougyoku. What I'm saying is: Arrancar existed before Aizen and the Hougyoku.

In support of this comment is the flashback where Stark was **recruited** by Aizen. In that flashback, Stark was being asked to join Aizen. This seems to suggest that Aizen did not create Stark. And yet, Stark is shown to have a human face and form. So perhaps he was an arrancar (maybe even Vasto Lorde) before Aizen's arrival.


Quote:
If Masaki was a Vasto Lorde, then that raises the question how she lost her life to such a lowlevel class hollow as Grand Fisher. With their difference in terms of reiatsu, GF shouldn't be able to give her a skretch.
Well we know that isshin lost his powers somehow (and only recently got them back), so its not that far of a stretch of the imagination to say Masaki could've lost her powers as well. And we also don't know to what extent isshin and possibly masaki lost her powers. Maybe they lost their reiatsu sensing capabilities as well. Thereby, making masaki as defenseless as a human to the low level hollow.
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Old 2010-03-26, 16:34   Link #756
JustRob
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Hmm I know this is an old theory, but the silhouette that was shown for the Vasto Lorde does resemble Ulquiorra the most. And Ulquiorra was the only one who had a second release, which according to him Aizen didn't know about (but apparently he did, just as planned).

So I think Stark could be a Vasto Lorde since he was the Primera, but I think Ulquiorra might have been one as well. Either that, or it's more of KT's pissing out of his ass, planning for Ulq to be a VL at one point, then scrapping it.

Also I don't really recall the Stark flashback, kinda skipped through that. But if Stark was already humanoid back then, then that makes the Hougyoku's effect kinda not-unique. That means the Hougyoku is not absolutely necessary to create shinigami / hollow mixes.
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Old 2010-03-26, 17:04   Link #757
AnimaTheory
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Quote:
Also I don't really recall the Stark flashback, kinda skipped through that. But if Stark was already humanoid back then, then that makes the Hougyoku's effect kinda not-unique. That means the Hougyoku is not absolutely necessary to create shinigami / hollow mixes.
Good point. But the flashback is pretty clear. Its #375. Here's an image:

Spoiler for :


And another point regarding the Hougyoku: Aizen was performing hollowfication experiments on people (shinji, hiyori, all vizards, etc) before he had possession of the hougyoku. And as far as we know, ichigo hasn't been hollowfied by the hougyoku. Therefore, the shinigami could obtain hollow abilities without the hougyoku.

So I think its possible that the same situation could apply for hollows becoming arrancar.... Hollows can become arrancar without the hougyoku.

I think the purpose of the hougyoku is that it perfects the hollowfication or "shinigamification" once fully awakened.

Last edited by AnimaTheory; 2010-03-28 at 11:25.
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Old 2010-03-26, 19:33   Link #758
Murushirago
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Isshin isn't an illusion. Aizen couldn't use Kyouka Suigetsu on everyone such as Kurosaki's teachers - a parent-teacher conference with an invisible father would surely have caused Kurosaki Ichigo to be placed in foster care rather fast.

EDIT: About Ulquiorra Cifer - he does NOT have an "extra" release. When he became an Arrancar, just like he chose to retain his high-speed regeneration, he chose to split his power into three parts rather than two like the other arrancar. Which is to say, while the other Arrancar locked themselves into solely human form and fully Hollow form, Ulquiorra gave himself two possible states of release as well as his human form. It isn't some kind of Hollow Bankai. It's merely an aberration unique to Ulquiorra.

So while in essence he does have two releases, they add up to the same thing as any other Arrancar's single release. It isn't something other Arrancar or the Vaizard can learn - unless they asked Urakara Kisuke to arrange it for them when he restored them to human form.
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Old 2010-03-27, 16:07   Link #759
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@Murushirago

where exactly did you get that from?
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Old 2010-03-27, 17:15   Link #760
Haak
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@Murushirago

where exactly did you get that from?
It's just his theory. It's a good theory but it isn't based on anything.

Spoiler for manga:
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Last edited by Haak; 2010-03-28 at 09:30. Reason: just in case
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