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Old 2010-01-13, 22:15   Link #221
Ermundo
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Hey, newbie here. Gotta say Spice and Wolf is a really interesting series, with everything a guy could want in it. Just a quick question about the novels, but what exactly is the story "A boy, a girl and a white flower" from volume 7 about? I know that it features Horo from the pre-Lawrence era, and that she's looking for some elixir, but yeah, what exactly is going on in the tale. If I'm violating any rules by asking this question, sorry in advance. But my curiosity is killing me.
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Old 2010-01-17, 10:51   Link #222
takanori
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Originally Posted by Haak View Post
Is there any sign of the Light Novel series ending any time soon?
The author says in the last part, or''atogaki'' of the volume XIII
that he thinks the Light Novel series will be ending in the near future.
And he has a plan to write new Light Novel series.

Last edited by takanori; 2010-01-17 at 10:55. Reason: easy to make sense
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Old 2010-01-17, 15:26   Link #223
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Oh, well. At least the novels are getting an English translation. And 13 novels is quite a good amount.
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Old 2010-01-17, 15:44   Link #224
Ermundo
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True. But still...life after Spice and Wolf is gonna suck :-(. I really the author decides to explore the side world of Spice and Wolf, such as the characters in Horo's past or even introduce a new character who journeys with the two for a time. Ah, but that realm of possibility can only be reserved for fanfiction :-). Does the plot seem to be winding down to a climactic conclusion?
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Old 2010-02-01, 06:03   Link #225
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are important developments in the relationship between Lawrence and Horo in the light novels have not yet adapted to anime?
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Old 2010-02-01, 16:31   Link #226
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Short answer... yeah. Only the first few novels have been adapted for anime.

Longer answer --- the development of their relationship does slow down dramatically as they're pressed by day-to-day adventures. This isn't terribly different than a lot of romance manga or novels though.

I'm very curious about how the author is going to wrap this story up though.
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Old 2010-02-01, 22:28   Link #227
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Do the novels ever go into detail about Lawrence's past?
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Old 2010-02-03, 01:31   Link #228
Dark Wing
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Do the novels ever go into detail about Lawrence's past?
From what I understand there are points in the story where he has nostalgia trips about is childhood and being an apprentice merchant.
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Old 2010-03-02, 03:21   Link #229
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Q: Do you guys think this series is going to be continued?

It looks promising but I don't want to start it, get hooked and then wonder if they'll ever make a new season.
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Old 2010-03-02, 03:52   Link #230
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Its got two seasons out. The adventures are somewhat episodic little stories -- and there's the followup manga and light novels.

That's as much as one gets in about 98% of any series.

I'd give it a fair chance of a 3rd season but probably tied into wrapping the light novel series up.
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Old 2010-03-02, 06:02   Link #231
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And, even so, the end of the the second season of the anime, while not providing a formal end, is rather satisfying story-arc-wise. It's not one of those where characters are left in a completely unresolved dire situation. Additionally, I have found the LN, manga, and anime all have a lot to offer.

The absolute worst thing I could see happening is that the last few LN were not made domestically available in the West, thus making it more problematic in getting the last few bits of the story... hooked as I am, I will get my hands on them one way or another.

I'd say go for it man; let yourself get hooked.
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Old 2010-03-27, 19:26   Link #232
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I have a question about the series that the fanbase might help clarify for me.

The wheat pouch Horo hangs around her neck is supposely where she lives, as stated by the novels and the anime. And that if it were grinded, burned, etc, then she would disappear( this is am i not completely sure, but many people seems to think so.)

Well here is what sparked of my question.

In the north where she lived before travlling south, there shouldn't be any wheat there, since it was a cold climate unsuitable for growing wheat. And she doesn't seem to be carrying wheat with her during her travel to the south for the first time. So does Horo actually live in the wheat, and if that is the case, how was she able to live in north where wheat was unable to grow?

And my second question
Is there like distance limit impose on Horo for how far she can be away from the wheat? For example, does she needs to remain within 30 meters of the wheat for her to notdisappear? And if her pouch was missing/stolen, would she be able to disappear and re-appear to where her pouch was dropped/taken, since she technically lives within the wheat in the pouch?

Sorry, if these questions have already been posted and answered somewhere on the forums. If they are already posted, please guide me in the gernal direction to those questions, if you don't mind.
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Old 2010-03-28, 07:31   Link #233
tyranuus
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In the north where she lived before travlling south, there shouldn't be any wheat there, since it was a cold climate unsuitable for growing wheat. And she doesn't seem to be carrying wheat with her during her travel to the south for the first time. So does Horo actually live in the wheat, and if that is the case, how was she able to live in north where wheat was unable to grow?
My personal belief is this is due to her agreement with the peoples of the south, whilst the agreement is all but annulled, it is the agreement which binds her to the wheat, a pact if you will. Whilst she quite possibly COULD break away from the agreement and wheat now, it is both easier and less risky for her to remain within a reasonable distance. There is also the simple fact that she requires a form of offering to switch shapes, or at least as far as we have been told, and thus she probably takes comfort in having a method of doing so close at hand, in the case of an emergency. In a sense, it is thus more of a comfort and backup plan than a restriction.

Quote:
And my second question
Is there like distance limit impose on Horo for how far she can be away from the wheat? For example, does she needs to remain within 30 meters of the wheat for her to notdisappear? And if her pouch was missing/stolen, would she be able to disappear and re-appear to where her pouch was dropped/taken, since she technically lives within the wheat in the pouch?
Again distance comes back to how tied you believe she is. The people she made the pact with have all but renounced her, again my personal belief is that she could break away from the wheat, and if required, tie herself to some other object or life, however if she IS stuck with the wheat, there is likely a restriction, not necessarily in terms of pure distance though, and range...well Id imagine it'd be reasonable. A wolf goddess is not going to bind herself to an area that small, it wouldnt fit in with a wolf's boundaries, therefore I'd consider if there is a region, it's probably a range consistant with the size of a pack territory. That said, I believe quite frankly she could break away, she is just unwilling to try it out...just in case!

If the pouch was stolen, she may not be able to 'warp' to it, but given her connection to the grain, she would likely be able to sense its whereabouts.

As it stands we may never have a solid answer for this, but as Holo exists somewhere in the rift between spirits and deities, I believe its quite possible she's [a lot] stronger than she lets on, or possibly understands, being a relatively young god/spirit. Certainly being able to influence weather and harvests suggests some level of power, even if its not something she thinks about.




Now, if anything has been mentioned about this in later books, Im happy to stand corrected.
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Old 2010-03-28, 13:10   Link #234
Rajura
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Originally Posted by tyranuus
Now, if anything has been mentioned about this in later books, Im happy to stand corrected.
I tend to agree with Tyr's explanation for the most part... and have to say I am waiting on the other books as well (I really don't need two sets, and it's easier to share the English ones).

The explanation given by Tyr going into consideration, she does say that if the wheat is in some manner destroyed (i.e. not useful for planting) she would disappear. I do wonder if that is now not the case, given her contract is void. Or, is it the case because with the initiation of that contract she as a result found herself bound?

I would like to see that explored, but if it isn't it's no big deal. She has the wheat; it could be used to grow more, and thus could continually increase her "safety net". I will just wait patiently on the later books so I accidently don't ruin any surprise I would otherwise encounter!
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Old 2010-03-28, 16:40   Link #235
BashZeStampeedo
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Heh.. another interesting conversation

It's always felt to me like she could have left Pasroe anytime, but she simply didn't want to leave on her own. I mean, she can obviously travel on her own with wheat grains, it's not like she needs Lawrence around for that purpose (it's interesting then, that she chose HIM to travel with.. was he the ONLY traveler going through Pasroe? Was she already interested in him from seeing him on his prior visits to Pasroe? Was it just a marvellous coincidence after all?).

Even the wheat in his cart that she moved to wasn't even from Pasroe, so it doesn't seem like she was tied to that village in any way other than her honor-bound word. This implies that she was so desperate to not be alone that she wouldn't even leave Pasroe, a place she hated and didn't even associate with in a physical form anymore.

Being a harvest deity, it does stand to reason that she needs some kind of tether to the physical world. Again I doubt that she "needs" it to survive per se, but merely needs it to take a physical form. If it's gone, her spirit wanders around alone until it can find something suitable in order to manifest itself again.

Whether she needs a grain plant like wheat is questionable. They aren't just talking about wheat, after all, but rather barley and other wheat-like grains. Maybe in Yoitsu etc she didn't need a specific plant, maybe anything that can be "harvested" is good enough for a harvest deity.. so maybe she can survive even in Yoitsu in a physical form by keeping enough grass alive with her power, even through harsh times.

Whether she can travel without her physical form, or whether she'll "die" without it (or simply vanish) is tough to say, but it seems unlikely that either would be true. The novels go to great lengths to underscore the fact that she is AFRAID of traveling alone, not that she is incapable of it.

As for distance limitations, who knows? She even split the grains in her pouch with Lawrence when they ran from Medioh's men in volume 1, so was her spirit with both him and with her physical presence? Or maybe she was relying on her spirit being able to drift to his wheat in the worst-case scenario?
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Old 2010-03-28, 16:45   Link #236
Rajura
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I don't know if her spirit would "drift" per se, but as long as he was ok, it would be ok, which meant she would be ok... not to even venture into the whole transformation thing requiring the wheat or blood... that's a discussion in and of itself!
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Last edited by Rajura; 2010-03-28 at 18:47. Reason: Word duplication
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Old 2010-03-28, 18:23   Link #237
tyranuus
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Heh.. another interesting conversation
I like these interesting discussions. It brings life back into these forums and fills my desire for more Spice and Wolf related stuff

Also, a lot of your points seemed to focus around Holo as a harvest deity. Whilst thats what she is right now, I somehow doubt that's all she is or can be, because she only effectively became a harvest deity as far as we know, after making a pact with the village. Now whether being a god that pact is simply an agreement of honour or something stronger we dont know (that said her proud, wise wolf character aspect would likely lead her loathe to break an agreement anyway).

She may not even need a grain-based substance, it may simply be she needs some form of life to bind to (hence the sacrifice of grain, grain representing new life [the seed of life] or blood, blood being seen as a source of raw life by many cultures, hence where Vampires came from!) or the need for the grain may simply be a limitation imposed by her pact with the village, you're right we know she's terrified of being alone, she may simply have chose Lawrence because it was easier/less risky/less scary because he had the grain already. Sometimes convenience is wonderful, and Holo can so definately be a little whimsical!
As he has visited Pasloe before, Holo may well also have had a chance to watch Lawrence before, and thus even though she didnt really know his personality or him, she knew the SORT of person he was, and thus he was likely to be open to bargaining in return for companionship and possible boons. That he was a reasonably lonely soul himself, and already had wheat this time really was a convenient bonus. Lawrence is also a pragmatist, the books make explicit reference to how she hates being treated as different (in awe/fear etc) again possibly because of how alone it leaves her feeling, she may have believed because of his pragmatic, lonely nature as a merchant, Lawrence would be more likely NOT to treat her differently and actually treat her as a person/being, something she deeply desires.

I'd also agree there's a strong possibility Holo doesn't need anything to survive, however the pact may have imposed limits on her corporeal form, and whilst she is unsure as to the exact status of the pact, or its annulment, she is playing it safe. Given her fear of being alone, an existance as an unmanifested spirit with no contact with any living thing is probably abhorent to her. Again the fact she knows this grain is there is almost a safety net and personal comfort.
Whilst she told Lawrence what might happen if the grain was lost, theres a distinct possibility she was exaggerating as a personal safeguard. Holo is after all, much as she hates it, an extremely lonely and vulnerable individual, at least in part (after all one of the reasons she is such a great character is because she is so debateable and multifacetted!).

If the pact is ever completely broken, I think theres a possibility Holo would show a much wider degree of powers and capabilities (dependant on how aware she is of her own capabilities, IIRC its implied she left the north to see the world when she was VERY young as far as a spirit/deity goes), and also a distinct possibility she would no longer feel the need for either the grain, nor need the grain to transform, the pact simply imposes a limitation/control on her at current. Her implied origins, Scandinavia/Northern Germany aren't exactly known for thier grain production after all, plus except for the pact, what tie would a wolf goddess usually have to a harvest? Wolves are more usually seen as hunters or symbols of the power of nature, or natural beauty, rather than anything directly related to the harvest?
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Old 2010-03-28, 19:45   Link #238
BashZeStampeedo
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I like these interesting discussions.
They are refreshing The books (to the point of the anime's conclusion, so far) smartly make it tough to tell what she really is, and whether she's just messing with Lawrence for the sake of keeping secrets. That's what I love about the novels - she seems feminine despite being a "harvest deity".

That being said, I still don't think Pasroe or her "pact" there are anything important.. it still feels like she merely stayed there for her old friend's sake and her honor. Time flew by, and once she lost interest she left. I don't think she stayed there because she was "bound" by anything she didn't have control over, she just didn't realize how long she was there until it was too late.

You are right, though, that a wolven harvest deity seems out-of-place, and that's a clear clue that she is still keeping secrets (it's the reason why I think she still is, anyhow).

The funny thing is that as a kid loving Tolkien (kinda tough at the age of 7/8) I took an interest in light studies of pagan deities of the ancient slavic people (Wends/Poles etc), such as Radegast the harvest god. Horo is more like the lightning/thunder nymphs/gods of the Byzantine era, such as Perun (if my memory still serves).

Horo certainly doesn't seem Norse to me (although the thought of Lawrence traveling with a harvest-deity variant of Fenrir is oddly compelling). It's difficult to tell what age the story is set in.. if it's well after the age of the Fenrir/Wepwawet/Skolls, in the High Middle Ages when Christianity had overtaken most pagan beliefs in Europe, then it seems more likely to be something more like Perun than the ancient Greek or Norse wolves of myth.

But then, I know little mythology of that time outside the slavic stuff. Plus, I haven't looked at mythology since I was young kid, so I doubt I'm anywhere near accurate. But it's fun to wonder if Hasekura is making such parallels or just intended Horo to be exactly what she says she is. Sad though it is to hear myself say so, the very idea of a wolven harvest god amuses me, so I think you're right to point that out
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Old 2010-03-28, 20:16   Link #239
Rajura
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Originally Posted by BashZeStampeedo
That being said, I still don't think Pasroe or her "pact" there are anything important.. it still feels like she merely stayed there for her old friend's sake and her honor. Time flew by, and once she lost interest she left. I don't think she stayed there because she was "bound" by anything she didn't have control over, she just didn't realize how long she was there until it was too late.
Interesting that you say that... I thought that was strongly implied as well (at least that was my interpretation) insofar as the main reason she was bound! Her honor and the agreement with the man of years past was the driving force. I, however, am unsure as to whether there were any secondar issues that bound her. That is something to just be speculated and debated... but it really doesn't matter when it's all said and done. She was freed from the agreement by the villagers abandoning her *stupid villagers*!

Time flew by... maybe early on... but as the people deserted her and relegated her to legend and tradition, lonliness (as well all know) set in and that time must have not just passed slowly but dragged... painfully!!! It is that kind of suffering on top of her personality and speech pattern and other features that make her such a dynamic and dare I say "breathing" character!
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Old 2010-03-28, 21:30   Link #240
Attoney
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I'd also agree there's a strong possibility Holo doesn't need anything to survive, however the pact may have imposed limits on her corporeal form, and whilst she is unsure as to the exact status of the pact, or its annulment, she is playing it safe. Given her fear of being alone, an existance as an unmanifested spirit with no contact with any living thing is probably abhorent to her. Again the fact she knows this grain is there is almost a safety net and personal comfort.
Whilst she told Lawrence what might happen if the grain was lost, theres a distinct possibility she was exaggerating as a personal safeguard. Holo is after all, much as she hates it, an extremely lonely and vulnerable individual, at least in part (after all one of the reasons she is such a great character is because she is so debateable and multifacetted!).
Very interesting responses. Most of you seem to agree that the wheat acts as some kind of limiter/restriction on Horo's abillities. However, why would Horo sign a pact with the person to limit her powers? The reason cannot be because the pact will allow her to gain the powers of a harvest deity. This is because according to Volume 3 of the light novels, Diana Rubens told Lawrence the legend of Horou of the Wheaten Tail( although it is not confirmed to be Horo, the novel strongly hints that it is her.) This proves that Horo already has the power to make things grow to produce a good harvest before making the Parsoe pact. The possible second reason might to be make sure Horo keeps her side of the promise and not abondon the village. But if you think about it, that is kind of harsh don't you think? Locking up your friend in an area to make sure that they keep their promise. If that is the case, that does that mean the person who made the pact has a shallow trust in Horo? But most of you stated, Horo seemed to be able to abandon the village anytime she wants. So what is the point of signing the pact to bound her to the land?
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