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Old 2010-03-30, 12:06   Link #6721
iLney
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Somewhere along the line, some nimrods redefined what "weapons of mass destruction" means, stretching the definition to include small tactical nastiness....

Dilution of the meaning :P

Whatever, these Christo-fascist creeps are nasty pieces of work
What did you expect from CNN?

Yesterday, I saw the headline "Women blamed for Moscow bombing." WTF?
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Old 2010-03-30, 12:17   Link #6722
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
I just spotted the most hilarious name ever. Mr Nyan Win.



The problem with Japanese anime is that they have pushed too much for sexually oriented series like To-loveru. Though occasional boob jokes are acceptable (like in K-ON!, where Mio's boob size is just ridiculous by conventional Asian highschool standards), too much sexual charge albeit makes the series disgusting.

So far I have seen on Chinese animation, their work doesn't have the feel of Japanese animation where the stereotypes of tsundere, moekko, loli, kemonomimi, etc are formed. Their work, aside from a few, always seem to have a "factory made" feel to it.
i wouldn't worry about Chinese animation so much as the koreans. with the political situation in China the Chinese studio are on;y going to produce the blandest of the bland anime and would also do mostly historical stuff like rotk. Korea is a bit freer to tackle stuff the Chinese studio can't touch.
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Old 2010-03-30, 13:49   Link #6723
Solace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Whatever, these Christo-fascist creeps are nasty pieces of work
Jesus Camp. I urge anyone (especially Americans) who think the only religious radicals are Muslims to watch it and learn.
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Old 2010-03-30, 16:34   Link #6724
iLney
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Well of course, "the only religious radicals are Muslims" are wrong. However, given the sole fact that a number of one particular population celebrated 9/11 publicly, the bias against Muslim is well-founded. And if given limited resources to counter terrorism, our priority should be put where it is most productive.
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Old 2010-03-30, 16:53   Link #6725
yoropa
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Radicalism and extremism has been present in every type of person, regardless of their religious beliefs, their political affiliations, or their race.

A list of the 10 bloodiest events of human history:
1. World War II (55M), includes Holocaust and Sino-Japanese War, some overlap with Stalin
2. Mao Zedong's Regime (40M), includes famines
3. Stalin's Regime (20M), some overlap with WWII
4. World War I (15M), includes Armenians
5. Russian Civil War (8.8M)
6. Warlord and Nationalist China Eras (4M)
7. Congo Free State (~3M), some of this goes a bit before 1900
8. Korean War (2.8M)
8. Second Indochina War (2.8M), commonly known as the Vietnam War, encompasses more than Vietnam
10. Chinese Civil War (2.5M)

I don't think any of these actually involve religion, unless you were to consider Nazi Germany to conduct religious war against Jews, in which case I say to you that I think that is technically a racial and nationalistic war, especially considering how to this day Hitler's religious beliefs are under debate.

So let's break this down on the types of incidents.
1. Nationalistic, Territorial, Racial
2. Political (Communism)
3. Political (Communism)
4. Nationalistic, Territorial
5. Political (Communism)
6. Nationalistic, Territorial
7. Territorial, Racial
8. Political (Communism)
8. Political (Communism)
10. Political (Communism)

If we were to look at the 10 worst events of the 20th century in terms of death count, then we can presume that communism has killed, just from this, about 76.9M, and I'm not accounting any overlap with World War II.

76,900,000 deaths linked to communism. In perspective, that'd be as if 10.5% of modern Europe keeled over, or if 24.9% of the US died (gotta go by census estimate, no modern accurate numbers yet), or if all Canadians died four times over AND THEN SOME.

To those who say religion only causes wrong, I ask you to look at this information.
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Old 2010-03-30, 17:23   Link #6726
OMOCHIKAERI!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yoropa View Post
Radicalism and extremism has been present in every type of person, regardless of their religious beliefs, their political affiliations, or their race.

A list of the 10 bloodiest events of human history:
1. World War II (55M), includes Holocaust and Sino-Japanese War, some overlap with Stalin
2. Mao Zedong's Regime (40M), includes famines
3. Stalin's Regime (20M), some overlap with WWII
4. World War I (15M), includes Armenians
5. Russian Civil War (8.8M)
6. Warlord and Nationalist China Eras (4M)
7. Congo Free State (~3M), some of this goes a bit before 1900
8. Korean War (2.8M)
8. Second Indochina War (2.8M), commonly known as the Vietnam War, encompasses more than Vietnam
10. Chinese Civil War (2.5M)

I don't think any of these actually involve religion, unless you were to consider Nazi Germany to conduct religious war against Jews, in which case I say to you that I think that is technically a racial and nationalistic war, especially considering how to this day Hitler's religious beliefs are under debate.

So let's break this down on the types of incidents.
1. Nationalistic, Territorial, Racial
2. Political (Communism)
3. Political (Communism)
4. Nationalistic, Territorial
5. Political (Communism)
6. Nationalistic, Territorial
7. Territorial, Racial
8. Political (Communism)
8. Political (Communism)
10. Political (Communism)

If we were to look at the 10 worst events of the 20th century in terms of death count, then we can presume that communism has killed, just from this, about 76.9M, and I'm not accounting any overlap with World War II.

76,900,000 deaths linked to communism. In perspective, that'd be as if 10.5% of modern Europe keeled over, or if 24.9% of the US died (gotta go by census estimate, no modern accurate numbers yet), or if all Canadians died four times over AND THEN SOME.

To those who say religion only causes wrong, I ask you to look at this information.
I agree. Often persecution is not because of religion itself, but political manipulation of religious doctrine.
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Old 2010-03-30, 18:07   Link #6727
Irenicus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yoropa View Post
To those who say religion only causes wrong, I ask you to look at this information.
I think the communists would be equally eager to blame the death tolls of the Russian civil war as one-sidedly on the White Russians as you did against the Reds.

Likewise for the Korean War, the Vietnam War, etc., etc. I'm no friend of totalitarians of any shade, Red or otherwise, but this is a truly ridiculous exercise in bias. Surely all those capitalistic napalms the Americans threw into the jungles of Southeast Asia killed someone.

In other news, civilization caused the deaths of approximately XXX billions of people. Oh shit, civilization.

Moreover, although I do not agree with the statement "religion only cause wrong" in any case (nor, I have to bring to everyone's attention, did anybody here actually made that statement), it is not logical to say that because political conflicts cause more death and destruction, religion is not wrong. There isn't a causal relationship between the two statements after all. It's not like someone who opposes modern state totalitarianism cannot at the same time oppose religious fundamentalism; bringing the catastrophic conflicts of 20th century human civilization into the fore doesn't do anything much except perhaps as distraction.
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Old 2010-03-30, 18:25   Link #6728
yoropa
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Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post
I think the communists would be equally eager to blame the death tolls of the Russian civil war as one-sidedly on the White Russians as you did against the Reds.
They were capitalistic, more or less, before those events occurred so I have justification in saying it was communism. If that doesn't float your boat, I will say political struggle and we can settle it there.

Yes, those guys we set up killed people. I don't deny that, but they're not ranked in the top 10 worst atrocities of the 20th century. I was solely going off of that list, and on it you see a striking amount of these incidents were communist revolutions, communist wars, and communist regimes. Some of them we weren't involved in setting up a pro-capitalism force (Russia, China), others we were (Korea, Indochina). That's fact.

Now if I were to expand to, say, the top 30, you probably wouldn't read as much of a non-existent, anti-communist bias into it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post
Moreover, although I do not agree with the statement "religion only cause wrong" in any case (nor, I have to bring to everyone's attention, did anybody here actually made that statement), it is not logical to say that because political conflicts cause more death and destruction, religion is not wrong. There isn't a causal relationship between the two statements after all.
Maybe it wasn't directly said here, but I'm sure we've all heard somebody say that before, and I was addressing that general saying that so many of us indeed have heard, which goes something like "Religion causes the most deaths in the world" or "More people have died in the name of God than anything else" and I provided counter-evidence for both of those claims. In that regard I do believe you'll find that I was correct in what I was saying.

I never meant to say "because political conflicts cause more death and destruction, religion is not wrong" and I apologize if you read it that way. In fact I distinctly started with "Radicalism and extremism has been present in every type of person, regardless of their religious beliefs, their political affiliations, or their race."
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Old 2010-03-30, 19:55   Link #6729
Solace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iLney View Post
Well of course, "the only religious radicals are Muslims" are wrong. However, given the sole fact that a number of one particular population celebrated 9/11 publicly, the bias against Muslim is well-founded. And if given limited resources to counter terrorism, our priority should be put where it is most productive.
A number of? There are a massive number of people who follow Islam, just because a percentage of them celebrate tragedies doesn't mean we need to bias the entire religion. Radicals exist in all types, religious or otherwise.

The world is no safer since the "war on terror" than we were before. Those limited resources, those lives, cannot be recovered. It's an empty war, just like the war on drugs. We don't attempt to treat the causes of destructive choices, just the symptoms. Go ahead and dismantle Al Quida. There will just be another group taking up the mantle. Take out those drug lords. It won't matter. The drugs will still find their way to the streets.

It might make for good PR, politics, and public assurance, but these "wars" are tremendous wastes of time, money, and lives that could have been better assisted by addressing the problems that caused them to begin with.

That won't happen though, there's more to gain from war than peace, at least in the minds of those seeking power and wealth. It's just another case where treating the symptoms is better in some views than curing the disease.
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Old 2010-03-30, 22:10   Link #6730
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yoropa View Post
*snip*
I'd say it'd be easier just to look at all the top ten and chalk them all down under "political/racial".
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Old 2010-03-30, 23:03   Link #6731
Joojoobees
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iLney View Post
Well of course, "the only religious radicals are Muslims" are wrong. However, given the sole fact that a number of one particular population celebrated 9/11 publicly, the bias against Muslim is well-founded. And if given limited resources to counter terrorism, our priority should be put where it is most productive.
There is ample evidence that some Christians celebrated 9/11 publicly as well, so the bias against Muslims is ill-founded.

Christian Nut job example #1
Quote:
by David Ray Griffin
April 28, 2006

This essay was originally delivered as a lecture at Trinity Episcopal Church of Santa Barbara, Saturday, March 25, 2006.

In this essay, I offer a Christian critique of the American empire in light of 9/11, and of 9/11 in light of the American empire. Such a critique, of course, presupposes a discussion of 9/11 itself, especially the question of who was responsible for the attacks. The official theory is that the attacks were planned and carried out entirely by Arab Muslims. The main alternative theory is that 9/11 was a "false flag" operation, orchestrated by forces within the US government who made it appear to be the work of Arab Muslims. ...

I will argue that the attacks of 9/11 were false flag attacks, orchestrated to marshal support for a so-called war on terror against Muslim and Arab states as the next stage in creating a global Pax Americana, an all-inclusive empire. I will conclude this essay with its main question: How should Christians in America respond to the realization that we are living in an empire similar to the Roman empire at the time of Jesus, which put him to death for resistance against it. ', '

Christian nut jobs example #2

Quote:
Partial transcript of comments from the September 13, 2001 telecast of the 700 Club

JERRY FALWELL: And I agree totally with you that the Lord has protected us so wonderfully these 225 years. And since 1812, this is the first time that we've been attacked on our soil and by far the worst results. And I fear, as Donald Rumsfeld, the Secretary of Defense, said yesterday, that this is only the beginning. And with biological warfare available to these monsters -- the Husseins, the Bin Ladens, the Arafats -- what we saw on Tuesday, as terrible as it is, could be miniscule if, in fact -- if, in fact -- God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve.

PAT ROBERTSON: Jerry, that's my feeling. I think we've just seen the antechamber to terror. We haven't even begun to see what they can do to the major population.

JERRY FALWELL: The ACLU's got to take a lot of blame for this.

PAT ROBERTSON: Well yes.

JERRY FALWELL: And, I know that I'll hear from them for this. But, throwing God out successfully with the help of the federal court system, throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools. The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say "you helped this happen."

PAT ROBERTSON: Well, I totally concur, and the problem is we have adopted that agenda at the highest levels of our government. And so we're responsible as a free society for what the top people do. And, the top people, of course, is the court system..
So, what do we do? Put every Christian on a no-fly list? Have the FBI stake out every church? Or do we focus on real threats, instead of wasting our time implicating people of good faith (whatever it is), simply because some nut job happens to claim he belongs to the same religion?
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Old 2010-03-31, 00:47   Link #6732
iLney
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Hmm, I don't see "celebrate" anywhere in your quotes. But what is the point exactly? You want to prove that there are Christian extremists? Well, of course, so?

@Solace: I never contest that religious radicalism exists in all religions. However, if one particular religion constantly has their devotees committed wanton acts against us, we should raise a red flag toward that religion. Furthermore, I refuse to believe that those radicals can sustain themselves without constantly and quite easily being able to recruit the more moderate ones who exist in much much larger numbers. This is the main problem, imo.

Keeping that in mind, this war on terror is going nowhere with the way we fought it now. Like you've said, there are basically 2 ways to fight this: eliminating the cause by getting the heck out of the Middle East and scaling down our empire, which is unacceptable, and trying to suppress the symptoms by, uhm... dealing with the imminent causes.
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Old 2010-03-31, 01:53   Link #6733
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
Jesus Camp. I urge anyone (especially Americans) who think the only religious radicals are Muslims to watch it and learn.
I'd recommend Alejandro Amenabar's Agora as well. It may not be a documentary like Jesus Camp, but it provides food for thought all the same. After all, the clash between reason and faith is as old as civilisation.



Rio Tinto trial highlights risks of China business
Quote:
Sydney (March 31): Unexpectedly harsh jail sentences of seven to 14 years for four Rio Tinto employees charged with taking bribes and stealing commercial secrets could augur tougher times for foreign companies and errant executives in China's unruly business world.

The high-profile trial has lifted the lid on the opaque, and often risky, process of doing business in China — and become a lesson for other foreign companies. The heavy sentences serve as a warning for firms wading into treacherous waters in the emerging giant, where guanxi (connections) are vital, sharp practice is common and laws are ill-defined.

"It's extremely rare to not engage in some level of activity which is slightly dubious," said Mr John Lee, a fellow of the Centre for Independent Studies think-tank.

Australian citizen Stern Hu and three Chinese colleagues were jailed for between seven and 14 years on Monday after a three-day trial in Shanghai, much of it held behind closed doors. They were arrested last July during failed talks to set annual prices for iron ore, a core ingredient of the steel that is building the country's industrial revolution.

While only limited details of their crimes are known, media reports have revealed an environment where deals are smoothed with gifts and unscrupulous traders overcharge steel mills for ore, sharing the spoils with insiders.

"It shows the difficulty of knowing what limitations there are on your actions in order to find out what information you might need," said David Martin Jones, an Asia expert from Queensland University.

In China's business culture, that "might entail a bit of taking people out for lunch and slipping a few brown paper envelopes under the table".

- news.com.au, AP
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Old 2010-03-31, 02:39   Link #6734
Joojoobees
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iLney View Post
But what is the point exactly?
The point was that I disagree with this comment of yours:
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLney View Post
the bias against Muslim is well-founded
The reason I disagree with your comment is that it makes no sense to assume the ill will of some Muslims means that we should focus our anti-terrorism activities on the Muslim community, most of whom are completely innocent. In just the same way, the fact that Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson chortled gleefully at 9/11, or that a group of "Christian militia" tried to trigger the apocalypse in a bloody confrontation with the police forces, does not mean that anti-terrorism activities should focus exclusively on the surveillance of Christians, or justifies a "bias" against Christianity.

Last edited by Joojoobees; 2010-03-31 at 02:59. Reason: streamlining response
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Old 2010-03-31, 04:33   Link #6735
SaintessHeart
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Cold War 2 anyone?

Google: Critics of Vietnam mine face online attack

Quote:
HANOI, Vietnam – Google Inc. says malicious software has been used to spy on Vietnamese computer users opposed to a controversial bauxite mine in the Southeast Asian country. Computer security firm McAfee said the perpetrators may be linked to the communist government.

The "malware" has targeted "potentially tens of thousands" of people who downloaded software allowing users to type in Vietnamese, a posting on Google's online security blog said Tuesday. It said the malware has been used for "damaging purposes" — to attack blogs containing messages of political dissent.

"Specifically, these attacks have tried to squelch opposition to bauxite mining efforts in Vietnam, an important and emotionally charged issue in the country," Google engineer Neel Mehta wrote in the posting.

The Chinese-built mine is planned for Vietnam's Central Highlands and has attracted strong opposition — including from Vietnam's most famous military hero — because of fears it would cause major environmental problems and lead to Chinese workers flooding into the strategically sensitive region.

McAfee, which has investigated the malware, also discussed the attacks in a blog posting Tuesday.

"We believe that the perpetrators may have political motivations and may have some allegiance to the government of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam," wrote George Kurtz, McAfee's chief technology officer.

Vietnamese officials could not immediately be reached for comment Wednesday.

Last week, Google shut down its search operations in China, Vietnam's northern neighbor, after complaints of cyberattacks and censorship there. Google redirected queries from China's mainland to the freer Chinese territory of Hong Kong.

Vietnam also tightly controls its flow of information and has said it reserved the right take "appropriate action" against Web sites it deems harmful to national security.

Last fall, the government detained several bloggers who had criticized the bauxite mine, and in December, a Web site called bauxitevietnam.info, which had drawn millions of visitors opposed to the mine, was hacked.

The malware apparently began circulating at about that time, according the McAfee blog. It said someone hacked into the Web site run by the California-based Vietnamese Professionals Society and replaced a keyboard program that can be downloaded from that site with a malicious program.

Google's blog said the incident underscored the need for Internet users to run regular antivirus checks, and for the international community to take cybersecurity seriously "to keep free opinion flowing."

Among the bauxite mine's opponents is the legendary 98-year-old Gen. Vo Nguyen Giap, who led Vietnamese forces in victories against French and U.S. troops. Giap's photograph is prominently featured on the bauxite Web site.

Suspicion of China runs deep in Vietnam, which has a long history of conflict with its northern neighbor.

The two countries fought a bloody border war in 1979 and they have ongoing disputes about two archipelagoes in the South China Sea, the Spratlys and the Paracels.
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Old 2010-03-31, 09:00   Link #6736
JMvS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
I'd recommend Alejandro Amenabar's Agora as well. It may not be a documentary like Jesus Camp, but it provides food for thought all the same. After all, the clash between reason and faith is as old as civilisation.
Actually it's more like a XIXth century, early XXth construct, more recent scholar research has largely debunked it, and even point to the contrary; despite the concept remaining vivid within the general media and public conscience.

It doesn't take much epistemology to realize that both originate from our need to get an understanding of the unknown, and our hopes to affect phenomena to which we are powerless.

What is as old if not older than civilization, is the way we behave in packs or mobs, and react to the fear instilled by things we don't understand.
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Old 2010-03-31, 13:21   Link #6737
mg1942
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Last edited by mg1942; 2010-03-31 at 15:35.
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Old 2010-03-31, 16:55   Link #6738
Jinto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mg1942 View Post
*Facepalm*

If it was an interactive porno game made in the USA, I bet it wouldn't be so demonized. It is not like they are going to sell this to kids (like the moderator wants to make us believe). Now a "game" about rape is certainly not exactly politically correct, but since video game characters can be assumed to be fictional SM or those staged gangbang/rape porn videos would equally qualify.
Its just that hypocrisy that tastes so bitter.
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Old 2010-03-31, 18:41   Link #6739
LeoXiao
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Wow, that woman's voice was really annoying.

Didn't we have a giant discussion about this game last year?
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Old 2010-03-31, 19:32   Link #6740
Kamui4356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoXiao View Post
Wow, that woman's voice was really annoying.

Didn't we have a giant discussion about this game last year?
Yes, we did. CNN just apparently had a slow news day.
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