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Old 2010-04-04, 15:04   Link #2201
K. Shiruto
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^After these latest revelations, it for sure won't end there.

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Originally Posted by Last Carpet View Post
There's kind of a flaw with the whole "amnesia" idea. If Kujira used it on herself to forget her past and remake herself into Naze Youka, how did she remember her old name and acknowledge Maguro as her brother. Maybe it gradually wears off.
Probably she found some things about her past life during her new as Naze Youka. Despite this, she has no feelings for Medaka, nor Maguro (proved when she tricked and shoot him with the drug), and when talking about her past life as Kujira she even wonders why she decided to erase her memories. Of course she wonders why, because after shooting herself with the vaccine she forgot everything.

But it indeed will be interesting see what's gonna happen from now on. Medaka is not abnormal anymore, therefore this makes the Student Council considerably weaker. Though the real big problem is... what's gonna happen with Medaka? She even forgot her reason for being.

EDIT: Was this uploaded?



*Enter Perses mode*

Last edited by K. Shiruto; 2010-04-04 at 15:22.
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Old 2010-04-04, 18:35   Link #2202
Rejuvenation
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Two out of three Kurokami siblings lose their abnormalities and Medaka loses her memories on top of that. I wonder how long it will be before they get their abnormal capabilities back. I guess whenever Kujira gets confronted again and they get the serum from her. As it stands, I doubt Miyakonojou wants her as much if she isn't abnormal again. I wish I had a better grasp of the language so I can see what he is saying in later chapters. Still, this is an interesting move by Nishio.

As for the rankings, it is nice to see the series starting to jump out of the lowest ranks more often. Definitely an improvement compared to a few months back.

As for the volume 4 cover, it is my 2nd favorite one after volume 3. Have had some of my favorite characters in back to back volume covers and that makes me happy. Medaka's expression is cute and Maguro's smirk makes me laugh a bit.
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Old 2010-04-04, 20:10   Link #2203
KLGChaos
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I for one am very interested in seeing a non-superpowered Medaka. I was looking at the picture of her in a straight jacket and thinking "Do they really think that can hold her?" Now I can see why it would.

I just hope we don't waste the next 20-30 chapters on the "Battle of the Minor Characters" because they never go well. It's like watching Krillan fight in DBZ. It was pointless and boring because you knew he was just going to die anyway.

Not to mention the manga already has trouble with keeping things focused. Having an all out war between minor characters would make it even worse. Of course, I've always preferred mangas with fewer characters. The only time I've ever really cared about the side characters and their battles was in Naruto. Of course, the characters in that feel a bit more down to earth and aren't all one-dimensional sideshow caricatures. It's like all the members of the the Flask Plan have the same exact personality-- arrogant and overconfident-- just with different abnormalities. Don't they have anyone who doesn't sound so damn arrogant?
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Old 2010-04-04, 20:52   Link #2204
Xion Valkyrie
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Originally Posted by KLGChaos View Post
I for one am very interested in seeing a non-superpowered Medaka. I was looking at the picture of her in a straight jacket and thinking "Do they really think that can hold her?" Now I can see why it would.

I just hope we don't waste the next 20-30 chapters on the "Battle of the Minor Characters" because they never go well. It's like watching Krillan fight in DBZ. It was pointless and boring because you knew he was just going to die anyway.

Not to mention the manga already has trouble with keeping things focused. Having an all out war between minor characters would make it even worse. Of course, I've always preferred mangas with fewer characters. The only time I've ever really cared about the side characters and their battles was in Naruto. Of course, the characters in that feel a bit more down to earth and aren't all one-dimensional sideshow caricatures. It's like all the members of the the Flask Plan have the same exact personality-- arrogant and overconfident-- just with different abnormalities. Don't they have anyone who doesn't sound so damn arrogant?
Well, when you're a superhuman, it's hard not to be an arrogant prick. People are already very elitist in real life just because of tastes and what not, now they have a REAL reason to supplement their belief of their own superiority. Not to mention, they've been HAND picked to basically be the seeds that will reshape the world.

Anyways, I do agree on there being too many characters too fast though. It's a problem with a lot of shounen manga where they introduce a large cast of characters instead of really developing the ones they already have. This is also a problem when they come back and join the 'good guys' side, as now you have way too characters that the author has to deal with in any particular encounter, and thus some characters will end up getting neglected. It could be easily solved if battles are team-based though, instead of 1 on 1 battles.
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Old 2010-04-04, 21:18   Link #2205
DJ Trouble
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The huge casts allow for a wider net to be cast when pulling in an audience. The problem with shounens isn't that they often have large casts, but that the authors don't know how to handle a large cast properly. There's nothing inherently wrong with having a lot of characters, especially when your manga is (hopefully) running for many, many years.

Also, shounen characters aren't the deepest bunch of the lot. They generally only have three or four different characteristics to their personality. Their usual one that we see more often than not, their fighting mood that might have a more serious undertone to it, their comic relief mood that's generally markedly out of character, and their serious mood for when the story decides to be a little dramatic. And that's about it. For some characters, these even tend to overlap, like Luffy's usual and comic relief mood are more or less the same. <_<

Anyway, I think the large cast is a good thing, especially as the story is moving in more exciting directions.
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Old 2010-04-05, 02:16   Link #2206
Hypernova
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rejuvenation View Post
Two out of three Kurokami siblings lose their abnormalities and Medaka loses her memories on top of that.
Actually their abnormalities has returned already, the drug was only temporary.
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Old 2010-04-05, 08:14   Link #2207
Xion Valkyrie
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Originally Posted by DJ Trouble View Post
The huge casts allow for a wider net to be cast when pulling in an audience. The problem with shounens isn't that they often have large casts, but that the authors don't know how to handle a large cast properly. There's nothing inherently wrong with having a lot of characters, especially when your manga is (hopefully) running for many, many years.

Also, shounen characters aren't the deepest bunch of the lot. They generally only have three or four different characteristics to their personality. Their usual one that we see more often than not, their fighting mood that might have a more serious undertone to it, their comic relief mood that's generally markedly out of character, and their serious mood for when the story decides to be a little dramatic. And that's about it. For some characters, these even tend to overlap, like Luffy's usual and comic relief mood are more or less the same. <_<

Anyway, I think the large cast is a good thing, especially as the story is moving in more exciting directions.
Generally, I find that large can casts work well if the multiple characters aren't always together. They'd be off doing their own things, and we'd see individual development, and character interaction between pairs of characters, and then maybe they'd come together for some special arc. It also works better when your characters are diverse and fulfill a bunch of different roles. Medaka Box makes it really hard for itself when all the 'party members' are roughly the same age and are all students. Not to mention, they're all pretty much fighters (except her brother, which is good at least).
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Old 2010-04-05, 11:53   Link #2208
KLGChaos
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And the fact that a good portion of them have just been introduced in the last 15 chapters or so.... and that a bunch of them we still don't know about just showed up. Which means another 30 chapters of set-up and expedition before anything actually goes anywhere.

It also makes it very hard to care about the minor characters in this when they show up, you get a couple pages of background and that's it. He needs to spend less time of the dialogue and more time on the development.
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Old 2010-04-05, 13:22   Link #2209
K. Shiruto
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I honestly don't think Nishio is gonna show each of the secondary character fights, but focus on that part for one or two chapters, because the way I see, it doesn't seem, at least for me, that this colective battle will serve for more than "not let any of those guys get to Zen, Akune & Kikaijima".

In other words, a series of 1 vs 1 that for the most part will be developed offpanel. Anyone agrees?

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Originally Posted by Hypernova View Post
Actually their abnormalities has returned already, the drug was only temporary.
Reread the chapter, the vaccine is said to reconstruct a human body from the ground up. The translation speaks by itself, symptoms for each drug are permanent.

However, this is likely to be a new beggining for Medaka, where she can become a brand new woman, but the memory loss adds an unexpected and really big problem for both the Student Council and the school center itself, and it will be Zen's duty help her on that matter.

Last edited by K. Shiruto; 2010-04-05 at 14:48.
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Old 2010-04-05, 14:02   Link #2210
Sol Falling
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Hmm, in terms of memory loss--I don't know how much this applies in real life, but in fiction it seems to tend to be about a person's identity, their social connections and personal history, right? Not so much their education/general knowledge, or other abilities; those are retained. I wasn't too sure about jumping to this conclusion since the Flask Plan does study abnormals, but it seems we can confirm now that Medaka will retain her abilities? In that case, I think this will simply provide an interesting reset of Medaka's character.

If we think about what makes Medaka 'Medaka', that important things are basically her past encounter with Kumagawa, and her osananajimi relationship with Zen. Medaka's relations with Akune and Kikaijima are fairly recent and not particularly involved on her part, and she wasn't especially fond of Maguro either--I think pretty much all Medaka's other relations aside from Zen could be recovered simply by telling her what they were in the past. As such, I think the primary effect of this development will be just those two things: first reverting Medaka back to her pre-Kumagawa state (introducing the possibility of bringing Kumagawa back into the story as well), and second presenting Zenkichi a challenge to their relationship that he may or may not want to accept.
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Old 2010-04-05, 14:20   Link #2211
K. Shiruto
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^You think so? Even though Naze's research led her to find about her real name and her family, here you have how that affected her character:

Quote:
Of course, I'm happy too! // Although I don't remember it, he's my blood brother, and I just made a guinea pig out of him!
Naze knows Maguro is her brother, but doesn't remember him at all.

Quote:
b5) Naze-san! Did you hear all that just now? She knew she was being tricked, and still believed in you!
b6) Even though you've lost your memories, don't you feel anything from tricking a person like her?
b7) Truthfully? No, not at all.
Akune (or Maguro) asks Naze if she doesn't feel bad for her big sis.

and the big one:

Quote:
b1) Well, // with the brother as a first class sicko, and the sister as a fool,
b2) I guess I was in a somewhat unhappy environment.
b3) Koga-chan, // break these guys legs and arms, and carry them to another lab.
b4) I want to see exactly how extensive the effects of the liquid are.
b5) ...Break their arms and legs?
b6) But, // aren't they your family?
b7) Seems like it. // And it's fine that way.
b8) It holds more meaning to me using family as guinea pigs.
No feelings at all, no love for the family wich she forgot about.

As you all can see, the effects of the "memory loss" drug are brutal. You think it's gonna be any different with Medaka now both her abnormality and her memories have been removed? I don't think telling her about her past life will do anything, more if we take into consideration Naze's precedent.

The best Zen & co. can do from now on is recover her, escape the underground lab center and prevent Medaka from turning a delinquent, murderer...

Last edited by K. Shiruto; 2010-04-05 at 15:27.
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Old 2010-04-05, 17:22   Link #2212
Sol Falling
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Um, I thought the reason why Naze doesn't love her family is because she didn't love them even when she had her memories. The drug didn't change Naze's personality, and it seems like she still has her abnormality as well. Chapter 43 was telling us that Naze disliked her family's wealth/love/social standing/natural genius etc., and that is in line with her behaviour now. So I don't think the memory loss will turn Medaka into a delinquit/murderer. It won't change her fundamental personality--it'll only change her knowledge of her past and her personal relationships.
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Old 2010-04-05, 21:40   Link #2213
KLGChaos
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Well, we've seen from her fight with Unzen that without Zenkichi, it's possible for her to go too far. She would have killed Unzen if he didn't calm her down. Now, I don't think she'd become a murderer or anything like that either, but if her love for everyone comes from her experiences with Kumagawa and her relationship with Zen, then if you remove those factors, all you're left with is the other parts of her personality-- her arrogance, her pettiness, her dominating attitude. I could picture those being amplified without the moderating factors of her past...

While in reality, her personality probably wouldn't actually change, this IS Medaka Box. It kind of denies reality.
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Old 2010-04-06, 06:08   Link #2214
Last Carpet
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Originally Posted by KLGChaos View Post
Well, we've seen from her fight with Unzen that without Zenkichi, it's possible for her to go too far. She would have killed Unzen if he didn't calm her down. Now, I don't think she'd become a murderer or anything like that either, but if her love for everyone comes from her experiences with Kumagawa and her relationship with Zen, then if you remove those factors, all you're left with is the other parts of her personality-- her arrogance, her pettiness, her dominating attitude. I could picture those being amplified without the moderating factors of her past...
The only real interesting thing about her past, that we know of, was her confrontation with Kumagawa. When she discovered that she can't help everybody. But there's something I want to see just as much, maybe even more, the Kumagawa. I want to see Medaka's childhood, specifically before she met Zenkichi.

I can't help but think that, before she met Zenkichi and latched onto him, she was just as lonely as the other Abnormals in the 13 Party. Takachiho, who was untouchable, desperately wanted someone to touch him. Munakata wanted to get close to people, but never could because he was scared of what he might do to them. Medaka is good at everything, so she decides to love and help everyone?
Where does that come from?

She's got perfect grades, has innumerable trophies and awards, she takes records in any sport she tries, she actually taught classes while he was in primary school, and she comes from a ridiculously wealthy family, so it's likely to say she got everything she asked for. Since her abnormality first surfaced when she was child, I bet no one, except Maguro, wanted to be around her.

Kids are stupid and shallow, they tend to get resentful when they see someone easily accomplishing something they can't do or have to try their hardest to do. Imagine Medaka, who was good at everything she tried, she must've been loathed by her entire grade. Enter Zenkichi, the boy who couldn't do anything without her as his knight in shining armor". She found one friend and latched onto him, dragging him everywhere.

Zenkichi said that she never once thought about the positions she puts him in, and that's true. Because I think she's too busy thinking about being all alone again. Without her memories of Zenkichi, she's basically a blank slate. Free to be manipulated and changed.
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Old 2010-04-06, 07:31   Link #2215
Hypernova
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Originally Posted by _kurusu_ View Post
Reread the chapter, the vaccine is said to reconstruct a human body from the ground up. The translation speaks by itself, symptoms for each drug are permanent.

However, this is likely to be a new beggining for Medaka, where she can become a brand new woman, but the memory loss adds an unexpected and really big problem for both the Student Council and the school center itself, and it will be Zen's duty help her on that matter.
Actually you need to check cp44 page 8, Naze flat out states its has returned. She then goes on to say that such drug is not as easy to make as the memory drug. She also calls out to Maguro to stop pretending his power of analysis is still gone.

And check ch45, King mention how she hold the view that its not the abnormality that makes them who they are but their personality.
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Old 2010-04-06, 07:46   Link #2216
KLGChaos
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Originally Posted by Last Carpet View Post
The only real interesting thing about her past, that we know of, was her confrontation with Kumagawa. When she discovered that she can't help everybody. But there's something I want to see just as much, maybe even more, the Kumagawa. I want to see Medaka's childhood, specifically before she met Zenkichi.

I can't help but think that, before she met Zenkichi and latched onto him, she was just as lonely as the other Abnormals in the 13 Party. Takachiho, who was untouchable, desperately wanted someone to touch him. Munakata wanted to get close to people, but never could because he was scared of what he might do to them. Medaka is good at everything, so she decides to love and help everyone?
Where does that come from?

She's got perfect grades, has innumerable trophies and awards, she takes records in any sport she tries, she actually taught classes while he was in primary school, and she comes from a ridiculously wealthy family, so it's likely to say she got everything she asked for. Since her abnormality first surfaced when she was child, I bet no one, except Maguro, wanted to be around her.

Kids are stupid and shallow, they tend to get resentful when they see someone easily accomplishing something they can't do or have to try their hardest to do. Imagine Medaka, who was good at everything she tried, she must've been loathed by her entire grade. Enter Zenkichi, the boy who couldn't do anything without her as his knight in shining armor". She found one friend and latched onto him, dragging him everywhere.

Zenkichi said that she never once thought about the positions she puts him in, and that's true. Because I think she's too busy thinking about being all alone again. Without her memories of Zenkichi, she's basically a blank slate. Free to be manipulated and changed.
The problem with wanting to see Medaka before she met Zenkichi is that there never really was a time before they met. According to Zen, they've been friends since they were two years old and though I haven't been two in a long time, if I recall correctly, I was more worried about not peeing my pants than about whether or not the person next to me was succeeding. I'm not saying Medaka may not have felt lonely-- after all, she was probably able to do Calculus at that age where all the other children were still learning their ABCs (or in this case, Katakana).

So, Zen's been with her pretty much her whole life. I'm interested in seeing what she'll be like without her memories of him. I'm also curious as to what gave her the view of "I love everyone" and wanting to help them.
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Old 2010-04-06, 07:49   Link #2217
K. Shiruto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypernova View Post
Actually you need to check cp44 page 8, Naze flat out states its has returned. She then goes on to say that such drug is not as easy to make as the memory drug. She also calls out to Maguro to stop pretending his power of analysis is still gone.

And check ch45, King mention how she hold the view that its not the abnormality that makes them who they are but their personality.
Thanks for the clarifications Then the situation is pretty much the same> Medaka with no memories, therefore no knnowledge of her abnormal capabilities, therefore absolutely no idea about how to use them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Um, I thought the reason why Naze doesn't love her family is because she didn't love them even when she had her memories. The drug didn't change Naze's personality, and it seems like she still has her abnormality as well. Chapter 43 was telling us that Naze disliked her family's wealth/love/social standing/natural genius etc., and that is in line with her behaviour now. So I don't think the memory loss will turn Medaka into a delinquit/murderer. It won't change her fundamental personality--it'll only change her knowledge of her past and her personal relationships.
My apologies, I missed you were talking about "personality"

Last edited by K. Shiruto; 2010-04-06 at 08:37.
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Old 2010-04-06, 08:21   Link #2218
Last Carpet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KLGChaos View Post
The problem with wanting to see Medaka before she met Zenkichi is that there never really was a time before they met. According to Zen, they've been friends since they were two years old and though I haven't been two in a long time, if I recall correctly, I was more worried about not peeing my pants than about whether or not the person next to me was succeeding. I'm not saying Medaka may not have felt lonely-- after all, she was probably able to do Calculus at that age where all the other children were still learning their ABCs (or in this case, Katakana).

So, Zen's been with her pretty much her whole life. I'm interested in seeing what she'll be like without her memories of him. I'm also curious as to what gave her the view of "I love everyone" and wanting to help them.
If they've been together that long, I wonder how they met? A rich girl whose family owns a giant company connects to an average boy from an average standing. I don't think he's rich, and we've never heard anything about his family. Maybe he's an orphan or something.
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Old 2010-04-06, 08:33   Link #2219
K. Shiruto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KLGChaos View Post
While in reality, her personality probably wouldn't actually change, this IS Medaka Box. It kind of denies reality.
And like you, I don't think her personality is gonna change. And don't say it denies reality, because Naze kept her mood despite losing her memories, so why would it be any different for Medaka?

Medaka had many flaws, like her habit to have confidence with anyone despite knowing he/she could be just deceiving her (Naze, for example). Now with her memories gone, she can become a brand new Medaka (keeping her personality, of course) and remove flaws like the one I pointed out.

This on the positive side. On the negative side, the Student Council will be in a loss, and the whole school center in general will become a big disorder. Imagine if at that precise moment, with Zen and co. having the double duty to take care of Medaka and the council, that Kumagawa guy comes back
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Old 2010-04-06, 08:47   Link #2220
KLGChaos
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Originally Posted by _kurusu_ View Post
And like you, I don't think her personality is gonna change. And don't say it denies reality, because Naze kept her mood despite losing her memories, so why would it be any different for Medaka?

Medaka had many flaws, like her habit to have confidence with anyone despite knowing he/she could be just deceiving her (Naze, for example). Now with her memories gone, she can become a brand new Medaka (keeping her personality, of course) and remove flaws like the one I pointed out.

This on the positive side. On the negative side, the Student Council will be in a loss, and the whole school center in general will become a big disorder. Imagine if at that precise moment, with Zen and co. having the double duty to take care of Medaka and the council, that Kumagawa guy comes back
I didn't say her personality would change, I said I wouldn't be surprised if her personality changed because Medaka Box itself does deny reality in many cases. You've got Medakawho can stand on a floaty that would never be able to support her weight in the middle of a pool, a guy who can survive car crashes by "dodging" inside the car, someone who can pull weapons out of nowhere when it's physically impossible to hide them, and to top it all off, a bunch of normal students who just accept it all as everyday normal stuff, when you know that in reality, they'd be freaked out by it all and go running for the hills.

Oh, and no parents or home life. None of these kids seem to have them, except for Shiranui, who has her grandfather. You would think the parents would be worried that their kids are going to school with superhuman freaks of nature.
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